Post ASzgoU7Xech1L4iKB6 by gaditb@icosahedron.website
(DIR) More posts by gaditb@icosahedron.website
(DIR) Post #ASzEwbJpyfLpGRXxbs by matrix@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-02-23T23:43:43Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
Congrats to @townsxyz@twitter.com for launching. Great to see Dendrite and Matrix in the wild, but unfortunate to see it branded as “Towns Protocol” with zero reference to Matrix: https://towns.com/faq/ Guess it’s time to consider shifting impls to AGPL in the face of proprietary forks.
(DIR) Post #ASzFqUaICgM8astWoy by KitKat@masthead.social
2023-02-23T23:54:08Z
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@matrix "Towns encryption is based on the Olm and Megolm protocols used in the Matrix ecosystem. During the alpha phase of our product, a modified Matrix server provides the backend that allows Towns users to connect with one another."https://herenotthere.github.io/Docs/docs/security.html
(DIR) Post #ASzGcbdHImBsLyEX7Q by matrix@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-02-24T00:02:45Z
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@KitKat well, that at least confirms it’s matrix & dendrite. meanwhile: http://google.com/search?q=site:towns.com%20matrix yields nil; likewise https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/23/towns-protocol-app-ben-rubin. Obviously it’s within the terms of the license to do this; but hardly in the spirit. The most charitable interpretation is that they are planning to move away…
(DIR) Post #ASzGxrbl6I6jyvevjc by awooo@pawb.fun
2023-02-24T00:06:32Z
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@matrix Of course it's the crypto people again...Also is it me or are they getting lazier over time, because it used to be "hey, check out this crypto crap we made, it's a great investment totally!!!!", but now it's "don't worry, we'll decentralize over time, we'll fake it until we make it, give us crypto..."
(DIR) Post #ASzHEcKJAaVLVgUAHg by robertdalton@social.lol
2023-02-23T23:59:51Z
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@KitKat @matrix I would think it would be on their site as well honestly. I hope they are supporting matrix in some way. Sad to see
(DIR) Post #ASzHEct35QIHFQjuQy by matrix@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-02-24T00:06:44Z
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@robertdalton @KitKat nothing to date. Perhaps we should have made given the first bullet a slide of its own at FOSDEM.
(DIR) Post #ASzHTy1mldLl9v8oaG by alwayscurious@infosec.exchange
2023-02-24T00:09:06Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@matrix AGPL would be a great choice for server impls. GPL would be better for complete clients, but I expect most of the non-UI/UX client work to be in matrix-rust-sdk going forward.
(DIR) Post #ASzHsU2jO3GPP1H25Q by devhonk@akkoma.devhonk.tk
2023-02-24T00:04:23.769241Z
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@matrix I think using the *A*GPL for reference server-side implementations would be pretty much needed to avoid ending up like XMPP with a bunch of proprietary forks around(like Whatsapp's fork of ejabberd)
(DIR) Post #ASzHsUs8IwNdyRK5Cq by matrix@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-02-24T00:10:56Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@devhonk originally we picked Apache to be as generous as possible, but given we’re in a position where the better the protocol gets, the less $ there is to fund folks to work on the core protocol (cf https://matrix.org/blog/2022/12/25/the-matrix-holiday-update-2022) that looks increasingly like an error. No good deed goes unpunished, as the saying goes.
(DIR) Post #ASzOTmRyVnQovmFVVQ by robertdalton@social.lol
2023-02-24T01:30:45Z
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@matrix @KitKat I'm sorry to hear that. It should be on its own slide with information about what could happen to a project if they don't. To be honest, I can't donate too much, but I do it monthly. Heck, you can #SupportMatrix by giving a dollar a month on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/matrixdotorg
(DIR) Post #ASzPsqV8gfMMglFFrs by stereo@freiburg.social
2023-02-24T01:46:29Z
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@matrix i would vote for AGPL too. and btw. is it the same with these people: https://www.blackpin.app/ ?
(DIR) Post #ASzSeR1CvzvPSo44mG by Orca@nya.one
2023-02-24T02:15:20.081Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix@mastodon.matrix.org +1 for AGPL. But wouldn't that takes all contributors' grant to switch?
(DIR) Post #ASzSeRbMlYqfGwyx8a by tusooa@kazv.moe
2023-02-24T02:19:54.156388Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Orca @matrix switching from GPL to AGPL is always allowed
(DIR) Post #ASzgDRZ6C0tmhMwOjA by vintprox@techhub.social
2023-02-24T04:49:27Z
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@matrix Please just move on with AGPL for Dendrite, while it's relatively young project - as compared to Synapse, anyway. Server implementations need to be more transparent and gather a supporting framework, and being stuck with Apache is kinda missing out on that front.@devhonk
(DIR) Post #ASzgoU7Xech1L4iKB6 by gaditb@icosahedron.website
2023-02-24T04:55:56Z
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@matrix Anecdotally from having seen similar experiences with people using Mastodon like this -- AGPL doesn't STOP people from doing this (cf. Hiveway), but it does make doing it more frustrating for them and more funny for the rest if us (cf. TheJester's thing).
(DIR) Post #ASzh5EzJAeSjKPqv5s by gaditb@icosahedron.website
2023-02-24T04:56:18Z
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@matrix Anecdotally from having seen similar experiences with people using Mastodon like this -- AGPL doesn't STOP people from doing this (cf. Hiveway), but it does make doing it more frustrating for them and more funny for the rest if us (cf. TheJester's thing).So I'm for it.
(DIR) Post #ASzhcG08QMPo1kyz4q by oct2pus@jade.moe
2023-02-24T05:04:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix > DAOThis is a scam lol.
(DIR) Post #ASzl64bJfsJpDhHbdo by mainsac@social.irregulars.io
2023-02-24T05:44:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix that's LOW -_-
(DIR) Post #ASzpz1oY8UQyJyvtVA by catraxx@mastodon.online
2023-02-24T06:39:04Z
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@matrix The hell is their contribution to the protocol again to make such a claim?!
(DIR) Post #AT0EhT9wE8Psluf3Am by rumo@pub.osrx.social
2023-02-24T07:27:01Z
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@stereoHi, mein technisches English ist zu schlecht.Wo genau liegt das Problem?Hatte es so verstanden, dass TownsProtocol auf Ihrer Seite nicht erwähnt, dass es das Matrix Protokoll ist?BlackPin erwähnt dies dagegen in Ihren Texten.Oder geht es darum, dass diese Anbieter Matrix nicht finanziell und mit Feedback unterstützen?
(DIR) Post #AT0EhTasbxy27TGZAO by matrix@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-02-24T11:14:54Z
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@rumo @stereo blackpin acknowledge that they're built on Matrix, rather than rebranding it as their own creation, and i believe they are in discussions to support the Foundation.
(DIR) Post #AT0FTwjHabCuNjJCxk by stereo@freiburg.social
2023-02-24T11:23:56Z
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@matrix @rumo thanks for clearing that up. i was just interested.
(DIR) Post #AT0JQcY8Yo2Yk8lViK by rumo@pub.osrx.social
2023-02-24T12:07:45Z
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@matrix thanks for the information
(DIR) Post #AT0ahde7R3KGHtGPaK by HackerFoo@mastodon.hackerfoo.com
2023-02-24T15:20:14Z
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@matrix I know at least one major company has a no-AGPL policy, and probably any company with public Internet services. So using an AGPL effectively limits use to non-commercial users (hobbyists.)
(DIR) Post #AT0ahewwaXyiKZ4xZA by HackerFoo@mastodon.hackerfoo.com
2023-02-24T15:22:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix Also, just changing licenses will probably lead to a fork.
(DIR) Post #AT0cIIFq21WAbxwtUW by tirifto@miniwa.moe
2023-02-24T15:36:35.783570Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@matrix Why wait until you’re facing proprietary forks in the first place? Isn’t prevention always the better way to go?
(DIR) Post #AT0cTYUrz0HUAiLkpM by tirifto@miniwa.moe
2023-02-24T15:34:30.067533Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tusooa @matrix @Orca More specifically, I don’t think you’re allowed to change the licence of existing code from GPL to AGPL, but you can use AGPL for new code, and use the older GPL code with it. (So they’re just compatible if I recall correctly.)Dendrite seems to be under Apache 2.0, though?
(DIR) Post #AT0jwVeYKnqZQedHOa by menturion@mastodon.social
2023-02-24T17:06:05Z
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@matrix Is this post covered by the executives of New Vector Ltd? It sounds like an offended weeping child. Initiating a discussion of a license change between door and corner only harms the trust in the company. With all the success New Vector Ltd has had, this doesn't seem serious to me.
(DIR) Post #AT1AhbTX6R1LuAawK0 by matrix@mastodon.matrix.org
2023-02-24T22:05:58Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@menturion Dendrite and Synapse are maintained and published by the Matrix Foundation, which is currently at serious funding risk thanks to folks commercially deploying Matrix without financially supporting the Foundation. So if a shift to AGPL can provide a route to encourage commercial deployments to donate, we have no choice but consider it. It’s nothing to do with New Vector (aka Element).
(DIR) Post #AT2qenQMbx09KOPs2q by menturion@mastodon.social
2023-02-25T17:30:43Z
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@matrix I didn't know that the CapEx for Synapse/Dendrite development were attributed to the Matrix Foundation. I suspect that a license change would not have a direct impact on generating new revenue streams. However, services such as seminars in the form of paid content or classroom training (Certified Matrix Engineer), provision of managed, highly scalable and secure HA instances with tiered SLAs, etc. would (and could be offered based on existing headcounts, if applicable).
(DIR) Post #AT3jFYnjKyrSDMKE8u by nicemicro@fosstodon.org
2023-02-26T03:42:14Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@matrix @devhonkUnfortunately going with "permissive" license is not really being generous: it is giving legal justification to others to use your code to exploit users.As I personally look at Free Software from the "consumer protection" angle, I don't think the so-called "permissive" licenses are ever a good idea.#FreeSoftware #SoftwareFreedom #FOSS
(DIR) Post #AT4DAV6IfKGfulVxvE by troed@ioc.exchange
2023-02-26T09:17:33Z
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@matrix Not sure I follow. Under the Apache license they need to 1) Give their users the license and 2) Show any Notice that you include (which would provide attribution)
(DIR) Post #AT4Gl6BSZHhxDJ4SWW by hexmasteen@chaos.social
2023-02-26T08:34:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@HackerFoo @matrix It doesn't. AGPL simply means: if you make changes to the software, release the changes.
(DIR) Post #AT4dvdfREJYIu15W4W by jrballesteros05@fosstodon.org
2023-02-26T14:08:34Z
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@nicemicro @matrix @devhonk I believe permissive licenses are much more libre than copyleft. Sadly in the real world many companies use this to get development for free. That's why those companies loves going on floss projects telling their developers to change their licenses to permissive ones because copyleft one are more difficult to exploit.
(DIR) Post #AT4dvfgZj3eNA7dS7c by niclas@angrytoday.com
2023-02-26T14:19:56Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@jrballesteros05 It is really a variant of Prisoner's Dilemma;As an individual (low level) FLOSS developer, I hope that as many people as possible use my code in their projects. Hence I love the "Permissive", because more people are Ok with using it.However, if "Permissive" didn't exist (wasn't selected) and all FLOSS devs used "Copyleft", we would have a better world for everyone, both developers and end users.@nicemicro @matrix @devhonk
(DIR) Post #AT4eKBeKXL0nFKH7eS by niclas@angrytoday.com
2023-02-26T14:24:22Z
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@jrballesteros05About the "telling devs to change license"; ~15-20 years ago, I had a discussion about that with the founder of the jpos.org project. He got convinced to go from GPL to Permissive, as some company/companies promised to put developers to help out on the code base.In reality, they took the code into proprietary products and became a competitor to the founder. He soon after switched back to GPL, and I can NOW see that he has gone AGPL. @nicemicro @matrix @devhonk
(DIR) Post #AT4fGAy9DxwxvqCD9U by jrballesteros05@fosstodon.org
2023-02-26T14:34:51Z
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@niclas @nicemicro @matrix @devhonk Copyleft licenses might be a problem for developers because they "lose" control of the software that's why many people say permissive licenses are developer-sidd and copyleft licenses are customer-side. I don't judge people who use permissive license I judge companies who do those kind of shit to floss projects.
(DIR) Post #AT4gUOhv2h4iY4wyzQ by bonifartius@freespeechextremist.com
2023-02-26T14:48:39.607371Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@niclas @jrballesteros05 the most permissive license i now use is mozilla public license (for special cases where linking etc. is important), but i try to use AGPL for everything else now. i don't care if nobody uses the software. also the "permissive is more free" is a fallacy imho, just like the "there will be no roads" for mutualism.@nicemicro @matrix @devhonk
(DIR) Post #AT4h5FC1NcGbkqbH0a by niclas@angrytoday.com
2023-02-26T14:55:18Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bonifartius Fallacy; I disagree it is a fallacy, and instead prefer the Prisoner's Dilemma as the reference to explain behavior of the individual devs (myself included).@devhonk @jrballesteros05 @nicemicro @matrix
(DIR) Post #AT4hVGCqEeL6QUOCjA by niclas@angrytoday.com
2023-02-26T14:59:59Z
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@jrballesteros05 Fully agree.And unfortunately it isn't uncommon. And I suspect it is not too uncommon for companies to take GPL code and hide it inside a proprietary product without fulfilling the license agreements. I think that more often than not, they get away with it.End of the day; people who buy AWS "services" are encouraging ( and part of the problem) the most blatant and egregious examples of this bad behavior.@nicemicro @matrix @devhonk
(DIR) Post #AT5TdGiF21yM75xdDc by platonides@social.wikimedia.es
2023-02-26T23:56:51Z
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@matrix This could be claiming work of matrix authors as their own:"Who is behind Towns?The Towns protocol and app are the work of the members of HNT Labs. HNT is a small group of world-class engineers and product people that believe..."which nothing in Apache license would allow.Moral rights violations would still need to be resolved on the relevant court.OTOH https://herenotthere.github.io/Docs/docs/security.html does mention "During the alpha phase of our product, a modified Matrix server provides the backend"
(DIR) Post #ATAOISYSHP62mORPYu by mikarv@someone.elses.computer
2023-03-01T08:50:33Z
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@matrix @KitKat the journo behind that article should look at this thread @Tayhatmaker - it would be useful to know if they ever briefed them that it was just a matrix/element fork or if they totally omitted that important fact…