Post ASuOvLrI08VGmBR9dI by dmandl@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by dmandl@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AStBaCusYkaQOok9dw by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-21T01:40:25Z
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I ran into an editor today who uses the word "substitute" in the opposite way of how I would use it.If I wanted walnuts instead of cashews, I would say "Substitute walnuts for cashews."But she would say "Substitute cashews for walnuts."Neal Whitman wrote about this for me way back in 2014, but I rarely encounter it in the world. https://web.archive.org/web/20220725023251/http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/why-its-hard-to-talk-about-substituting-one-thing-for-another
(DIR) Post #AStBqOSvO6miqrO0Se by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-21T01:43:22Z
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If you wanted walnuts instead of cashews, which would you say?
(DIR) Post #AStCEF2q47iMaFYYdc by MerritMD@med-mastodon.com
2023-02-21T01:47:38Z
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@grammargirl You win, Grammar Girl, we can close the poll now 😉
(DIR) Post #AStCJgogErDsADX1Um by mikej@mastodon.online
2023-02-21T01:48:37Z
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@grammargirl When directly asked it's hard to think naturally about it.It does remind me of a Thomas Keller recipe I once read. It included the hint: "if you don't have bacon, you can substitute duck fat."
(DIR) Post #AStCOaUfArqI0AVKV6 by tidmarsh@heads.social
2023-02-21T01:49:32Z
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@grammargirl Could also say substitute cashews with walnuts.
(DIR) Post #AStCPqIzs6rBKZe796 by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-21T01:49:46Z
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@mikej I can see how it would be hard to think about it naturally when asked in a poll.I like the recipe wording. I think I'd hesitate to just use "substitute" these days knowing people use it in different ways.
(DIR) Post #AStCSYgtonnbZM7Zj6 by Rudydoesbooks@zirk.us
2023-02-21T01:50:12Z
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@grammargirl I agree with your conclusion in that post. It's as confusing as bimonthly, and since there is an equally simple way to say the thing in a clear way, use "new for old!"
(DIR) Post #AStCV1g90t6a3JwdI8 by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-02-21T01:50:45Z
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@tidmarsh "Substitute walnuts with cashews" sounds super wrong to me too, but it's definitely another one that Neal mentioned in his article.
(DIR) Post #AStD7bWcBalcERsnWy by MadhouseMuse@mstdn.social
2023-02-21T01:57:41Z
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@grammargirl You are correct to say "Substitute walnuts for cashews (wanting walnuts). If your editor had said "Substitute cashews WITH walnuts" that would also work.
(DIR) Post #AStDLGZOtRGfIMhTxw by Norwoodmike@mastodon.world
2023-02-21T02:00:05Z
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@grammargirl I would definitely rather have the cashews.
(DIR) Post #AStDW9kObG8VJw2IJk by LexStarwalker@zirk.us
2023-02-21T02:02:08Z
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@grammargirlThank you for reminding us editors can be wrong. 😹
(DIR) Post #AStDpX5W2ndxDE9cTg by jehb@mastodon.social
2023-02-21T02:05:37Z
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@grammargirl I'm eager to see the results! Personally, I would probably say it little differently to remove the ambiguity, adding a definite article or using a different preposition. "Can I please substitute walnuts for the cashews?" or even better "Can I please substitute the cashews with walnuts?"
(DIR) Post #AStEeS4GT7TcPYqhKS by michaelgemar@mstdn.ca
2023-02-21T02:14:46Z
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@grammargirl If it matters, The Who agree with you:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eswQl-hcvU0
(DIR) Post #AStGQgeNed0dUaJ2Q4 by Lexy3000@mastodon.world
2023-02-21T02:34:46Z
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@grammargirl That editor is wrong.
(DIR) Post #AStGgm0rU4OMl1UZNY by acm_redfox@jawns.club
2023-02-21T02:37:38Z
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@grammargirl Pretty sure this is regional (or national) -- have definitely been confused by the second usage in British English!!
(DIR) Post #AStGuiPBh5DxcfWCFU by karenismyrealname@universeodon.com
2023-02-21T02:40:11Z
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@grammargirl We in the US would say to substitute walnuts for cashews. That’s how we’re thinking about it: use the walnuts to replace the cashews. However, this came up when I was taking lessons in Portuguese and my tutor said that in Portugal, they would say to substitute cashews for walnuts. They think about it differently: substitute out the cashews for the choice of walnuts. So their language’s translation is opposite from our translation in English.
(DIR) Post #AStHg6V7vLgPxstQP2 by writerethink@wandering.shop
2023-02-21T02:48:45Z
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@grammargirl I encounter it a lot because my mother-in-law says it the way your editor does and it confuses the crap out of me every time. (She’s from central Ohio, for whatever that’s worth.)
(DIR) Post #AStJCP7CLvjAurfNNA by Chrisosaur@mstdn.ca
2023-02-21T03:05:47Z
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@grammargirl I think if I was going to say it her way, I would use a definite article. Substitute the cashews for walnuts.
(DIR) Post #AStK6BI4wH78FzLtQG by AndyCouch@mas.to
2023-02-21T03:15:52Z
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@grammargirl I know which is correct when presented with options in a poll, but that doesn't mean I ever actually say it correctly.
(DIR) Post #AStKtperdsEZdzgYGu by theJingster@hachyderm.io
2023-02-21T03:24:50Z
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@grammargirl oh no. Now I’m wondering how many times I’ve misunderstood someone because of this
(DIR) Post #AStOV6ol6cPvRNmQ5I by Eserafina@nerdculture.de
2023-02-21T04:05:11Z
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@grammargirl Of course, you (or they) could always cut the Gordian knot and say, "Please give me walnuts instead of cashews." If something is awkward or confusing, there's *almost* always a way to reword it. 😀
(DIR) Post #AStOXrFvQ99u2rnW1w by davewordnerd@masto.ai
2023-02-21T04:05:42Z
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@grammargirl I mean, one of these is right and the other one is wrong. Prepositions are slippery animals, but “for” does not mean the same as “with.”
(DIR) Post #AStP2DDWKlUEqP9AZM by JudeNunga@theblower.au
2023-02-21T04:11:10Z
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@grammargirl I'd say, "I'd like walnuts instead of cashews please", then go on to explain why, and apologise for causing any inconvenience. 😂 (Although really, I'd just leave, and not actually talk to anyone, go home and have my walnuts in peace). #ActuallyAutistic
(DIR) Post #AStRuxJ1OQcLKcx2i8 by smlx@fosstodon.org
2023-02-21T04:43:25Z
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@grammargirl This must be a regional thing. I put a request on our last veggie order: "swap onions for garlic please". We got garlic and no onions, as expected. (I'm in Australia)
(DIR) Post #AStZiJTqR7jhyQUqBM by gilmer@epistolary.org
2023-02-21T06:10:48Z
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@grammargirl I remember learning the for/with distinction as a kid. Both of those are fine by me.This new usage needs to get off my lawn.
(DIR) Post #AStrTKrAps4r4bPrKC by Bruceg@halifaxsocial.ca
2023-02-21T09:29:47Z
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@grammargirl I’d use “with” rather than “for”
(DIR) Post #ASu8rjwGvkn92F1WPA by baylorgrad@home.social
2023-02-21T12:44:42Z
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@grammargirl Actually, I’d write around it to avoid using “substitute.” 😄
(DIR) Post #ASuDpui4PfTbdGKTU8 by csgordon@lingo.lol
2023-02-21T13:40:21Z
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@grammargirl ah! In programming languages research we spend a lot of time talking about replacing a variable with a choice if what it could stand for, and the standard term for this is substitution. But both versions of this show up everywhere in the literature!
(DIR) Post #ASuKx1uQkAf1fPS1FA by maitxinha@lingo.lol
2023-02-21T15:00:05Z
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@grammargirl It’s very confusing when exchanging goods while playing Catan. Exchange what for what?
(DIR) Post #ASuMTSFmQo5CaqSjGC by mansr@society.oftrolls.com
2023-02-21T15:17:13Z
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@grammargirl "Substitute cashews with walnuts" would also work. It's all in the preposition.
(DIR) Post #ASuMWQ8ikNlWuEZgno by AustinB@mastodon.social
2023-02-21T15:17:44Z
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@grammargirl I love this kind of nitpicky grammar lesson. It’s like arguing over the meaning of a term in a contract or statute
(DIR) Post #ASuMrTl8U6u0DHaIMK by mediocratese@climatejustice.social
2023-02-21T15:21:29Z
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@grammargirl How about: I’ll have walnuts and cashews please. Hold the walnuts. 🤷♂️
(DIR) Post #ASuNw2hyaRZ9iaqXuC by MJKellySmith@mastodon.art
2023-02-21T15:33:32Z
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@grammargirl IMO, your way is correct. I've never heard it the other way (that I know of.)
(DIR) Post #ASuOZFRNBNk6V4m728 by Ulrich_the_Elder@mastodon.social
2023-02-21T15:40:38Z
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@grammargirl Please give me walnuts. Wow this can be done without mentioning the thing you do not want.
(DIR) Post #ASuOvLrI08VGmBR9dI by dmandl@mastodon.social
2023-02-21T15:44:26Z
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@grammargirl Coincidentally I saw a variation on this the other day and was puzzled by it. An English friend of mine said, "Oh this is good- I changed the one I put on fb for this." She was replacing a photo on FB with a better version I'd just sent her. So she used the same construction you're talking about with "change" rather than "substitute."
(DIR) Post #ASuPwoNvWg7lUcxlgG by SonofaGeorge@mstdn.ca
2023-02-21T15:56:03Z
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@grammargirl She's wrong. But don't get me started.Signed,The Phantom Pedant.
(DIR) Post #ASuy2261N9anuIFUuG by apm77@mastodon.online
2023-02-21T22:18:01Z
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@grammargirl This is one that I have to think carefully about!
(DIR) Post #ASvIFu99itqcODbhoG by Spconger@mastodon.world
2023-02-22T02:04:37Z
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@grammargirl I actually misread the question when I voted for the second option. A bit of dixlexia I think. Mine would also be a vote for the first option.
(DIR) Post #ASvJfkVoGbt1zY5hDM by BudGibson@mstdn.social
2023-02-22T02:20:30Z
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@grammargirl With 81% of the vote, option 1 seems dominant. To be perfectly clear though, I’d just say give me walnuts instead of cashews. Beats getting what I don’t want 20% of the time.
(DIR) Post #ASvozZ3reBwkqfwqtU by TomSchmidt@mastodon.social
2023-02-22T08:11:26Z
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@grammargirl InterestingDeepL has it wrong too
(DIR) Post #AWFYzIiihYFFtWtzcm by mibwright@mastodon.social
2023-06-01T14:22:37Z
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@grammargirl Listening to a podcast this morning, I heard someone use "substitute" in the opposite way of how I would — and I was waiting for them to correct themself when I remembered your post! (And thought, "Oh, they're just using different grammar.") d
(DIR) Post #AWFjVFfSaM5XEfFdsu by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-06-01T16:20:25Z
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@mibwright Thanks! I love to hear that!