Post ASqWnTd1Fe7TYfg8Cu by gretared@vis.social
(DIR) More posts by gretared@vis.social
(DIR) Post #ARkqUEBs59izMz3a52 by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-17T22:06:56Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
I remember trying to buy a TV that does not have "smart" functionality a few years ago. It was a chore. Today it seems impossible.And not just TVs: ovens; refrigerators; dishwashers — all have "smart" options. In fact, it seems that more and more the available non-smart models are only the simpler ones, less performant in ways that are not related to any smart functionality missing. My non-smart TV was available only with lower resolutions than "smart" models of the same brand.#IoT1/🧵
(DIR) Post #ARkqUEiq6a611ETuT2 by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-17T22:11:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
This really annoys me. I am too well aware of security implications of smart devices.I do not want to have to manage regular software updates for whatever number of appliances I have at home, or risk somebody using them in a botnet (or worse).And no, I don't trust their "disable WiFi" menu options either. Seen this setting get enabled without my consent too many times.I *could* put them on a special VLAN, but 99% of people can't. That's a problem, and not just for them.#IoT2/🧵
(DIR) Post #ARkqUFNFgKQF2ZOBSS by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-17T22:17:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
In 2016 a router-based Mirai botnet took down Dyn, one of the biggest online infrastructure companies, and many well known websites with it:https://coar.risc.anl.gov/mirai-attack-dyn-internet-infrastructure/Mirai mainly targeted home routers.As early as 2018 there were already botnets that… used CCTV cameras. But of course the predominant media narrative was "hackers attack" instead of "vendors put us at risk":https://www.vice.com/en/article/9a355p/hackers-are-using-cctv-cameras-to-create-botnet-swarmsBut I digress.With all this in mind, I started thinking of how could this be solved?#IoT 3/🧵
(DIR) Post #ARkqUFqfuvxSVp9gJs by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-17T22:23:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
So here's my (silly?) idea: a regulatory requirement for #IoT / smart-appliance vendors to provide either:a). similarly-priced models physically without the smart functionality but with other performance metrics on-par with their smart models;orb). a reliable, verifiable, physical way of disabling smart functionality in their smart-devices.I want to be able to buy a damn refrigerator without worrying about it joining a botnet! Just ain't cool.I wonder if this makes any sense!4/🧵/end
(DIR) Post #ARkqUGK69XUfz4vBBI by adam@hax0rbana.social
2023-01-18T03:14:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiekWell, I agree with you on the goal. I don't think that making exclusively smart devices should be a crime. Pretty much every HestiaPi project/product would be in violation of this regulation.I don't agree that we should punish people who want to make tech that they enjoy, or force them to make additional things against their will.I'd rather see dependable/reliable/safe/secure tech become popular. If people would prefer those products, I expect someone would make them.
(DIR) Post #ARkqUJswuQ9b22FYQ4 by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-17T22:35:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Just to clarify, my silly idea of a regulation would leave the choice between a). or b). to the manufacturer. I think it's fine to provide them with that choice.
(DIR) Post #ARl8WEcTFxM8SEba0u by OpenComputeDesign@linuxrocks.online
2023-01-18T06:36:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek I hate smart TVs (and indeed, most smart devices). The UIs of digital TVs already sucked more than enough to please even the most die hard masochist.
(DIR) Post #ARlbkwuqG32AYtZC0u by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-18T12:03:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@adam > I don't think that making exclusively smart devices should be a crime.I did not say that.
(DIR) Post #ARlmSn5DAygyLixdL6 by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-18T12:04:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@adam > I don't agree that we should punish people who want to make tech that they enjoy, or force them to make additional things against their will.I was very clearly talking about appliance vendors, not random hobbyist hackers hacking something up with a Pi for their own use.
(DIR) Post #ARlmSnWVXUWhiNjQsy by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-18T12:05:31Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@adam > I'd rather see dependable/reliable/safe/secure tech become popular.🤣 Good one!Find me a way to force vendors to make safe and secure smart devices, and we can talk.
(DIR) Post #ARlmSo5xPgsnUKJk8m by adam@hax0rbana.social
2023-01-18T14:03:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek dumb is dependable/reliable/safe/secure.
(DIR) Post #ARlmp9QOn5B20nX7my by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-18T13:48:58Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
A lot of responses to this ☝️ thread focus on how "one can simply not connect the smart appliance to the WiFi" or "you can just disable its WiFi."It's my experience that such software settings tend to not be respected. A firmware update might "accidentally" enable WiFi. The appliance might automagically connect to open networks.But is it just me? A poll! 📊 Have you experienced a "smart" appliance changing its network-related settings (WiFi on/off, etc) without your knowledge?:boost_ok:
(DIR) Post #ARqmQ35eB3fGuqemW0 by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-20T12:48:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Hey #IoT #InfoSec fediverse, there seems to be a general understanding there are "smart" devices (Smart Tvs etc) that will not allow you to use them unless you connect them to the Internet so that they can call home. As in, they won't even function as a dumb HDMI screen.However, I cannot find any source on this online. Anyone has a specific link, brand name, model, example of this? I am pretty sure this is true, just want to have a specific example.Thanks! :boost_ok:
(DIR) Post #ARqmQ3VsbWeGECvjP6 by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-20T21:13:17Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
Okay, I got my shit together and blogged about this thing.I want a fridge that won't join a botnethttps://rys.io/en/164.html> I could put such devices on a special VLAN, or behind a Pi Hole, but 99% of people can’t. Plus, it’s work. Plus, most importantly, you can bet that “smart” devices will start coming with SIM cards and 4g/5g modems very soon — cars already do. Why does my fridge need Internet connectivity in the first place?#IoT
(DIR) Post #ARqmQ7WjgHi4g1MTIG by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-20T23:52:56Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Normalize using the word "Safe" as the opposite of "Smart" in the context ot #IoT / home appliances."I got myself a nice new Safe TV." 👍 #InfoSec
(DIR) Post #ARqoSb3p2wA2lG96y8 by mookie@orangem.net
2023-01-21T00:02:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek I was chatting about this with @bnys a month ago where we agreed that we'd pay more if we could get a TV without any of the "smarts" in it.I have a Sony with Android TV build it. I never use it and all the TVs in my house have an Apple TV hooked up to them because that interface is better for me than Android TV or webOS. I want a TV with four HDMI 2.1 ports and that's it.
(DIR) Post #ARqoSbdGv8W8XCjQDw by woozle@toot.cat
2023-01-21T00:13:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mookie @rysiek @bnys Our TV is pre-smart and we use a Linux PC (used, from the local e-cycling shop) to watch stuff. We have no complaints (except occasionally with VLC's UX, I mean seriously -- what is it with the controls becoming invisible in full-screen mode, even when you hover and click on them).[edit] P.S. The only reason we even use an actual TV is that (a) it was given to me by my mom when she upgraded, (b) it has speakers built in, and (c) it's probably the largest screen in the house.
(DIR) Post #AS09fxfGADp25fVhYW by kuba_@101010.pl
2023-01-25T12:09:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek about silliness of your idea - i am sure of 2 things:1) it's not silly;2) it will be paint as silly by manufacturers.
(DIR) Post #AS09fy5qZN5bQ7wvzs by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-01-25T12:29:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kuba_ @rysiek I am with you 1000% on this one.I'll soon be the owner of a smart TV. The old non smart TV died a couple of months back.That "smart" TV will either be non connected or firewalled to heck and back. I am lucky, in the sense that I control my internet access, and not my ISP, so the house firewall is under my control.
(DIR) Post #AS0Bylg79VOiKI0P8C by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-25T12:54:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ParadeGrotesque @kuba_ there are still some Safe (i.e. non-Smart) TV options available. For example, you can find some on the Polish site Ceneo:https://www.ceneo.pl/Telewizory/Smart_TV:Nie_posiada.htmBe careful, some are mis-categorized. So always check in the specs before you buy. But for example Manta makes TVs without any smart functionality, like this one:https://www.ceneo.pl/94023747#tab=spec
(DIR) Post #AS0DtWmlIOgGb6kBEW by arek@mastodon.internet-czas-dzialac.pl
2023-01-25T13:06:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek it's better to buy new great TV and just not plug an ethernet cable@ParadeGrotesque @kuba_
(DIR) Post #AS0DtXF7axMk140pRA by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-25T13:07:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@arek they come with WiFi, and I ain't trusting them not to try to connect to some open networks. Or have 4g/5g soon. @ParadeGrotesque @kuba_
(DIR) Post #AS0DtXoDUTRFluQr8i by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-01-25T13:17:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek @arek @kuba_ Yup, 4g/5g is the next logical step.The TV I bought has an Ethernet port, and wifi will be left unconfigured. I think "smart" functions do not include scanning for wifi and cracking WPA codes if an Ethernet cable is plugged in... 😅Since the TV will be connected directly to the house router/firewall, it won't be able to connect to the Internet.
(DIR) Post #ASqWnSJ8A6cHShMjZI by gretared@vis.social
2023-01-20T21:27:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek yo dog I heard you like internet so now there’s internet all over the place
(DIR) Post #ASqWnT0jXzUjdvlYX2 by rysiek@mstdn.social
2023-01-20T21:28:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gretared *in*ternet. Because it's *in* your fridge, house, TV, toothbrush, and toaster.
(DIR) Post #ASqWnTd1Fe7TYfg8Cu by gretared@vis.social
2023-01-20T21:30:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek dammit! Now I am imagining a new job where instead of fighting rats and roaches, the exterminator goes around putting pi holes everywhere.
(DIR) Post #ASqWnU6nSvwH31buca by bjb@fosstodon.org
2023-02-19T18:54:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gretared @rysiek Good idea.