Post ASoGPFUQBDWdAvA7wO by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
(DIR) More posts by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
(DIR) Post #ASoC5gkohakM7sFTrk by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-02-18T15:50:57Z
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The amount of material I see online about Oracle these days - tutorials, Q&A conversations, open source examples - is a tiny fraction of what's available for open source competitors like MySQL and PostgreSQLI wonder how much that hurts adoption of that database in the 2020sI know their sales teams are legendary, but that's gotta be hard to continue to compete with, especially given a new generation of developers who grew up in an open source first world
(DIR) Post #ASoCZ73K0JL05Sw0wa by ramsey@phpc.social
2023-02-18T15:56:00Z
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@simon Developers aren’t their market. Companies are.
(DIR) Post #ASoCZltU9mpakpeEnw by seldo@alpaca.gold
2023-02-18T15:57:08Z
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@ramsey @simon also it's a really nice database once you've paid for it.
(DIR) Post #ASoCwiszVSxQ5NMR60 by hynek@mastodon.social
2023-02-18T15:58:20Z
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@simon I wouldn’t be surprised if most devs starting out today have no idea that Oracle makes databases. Even MS SQL is more present. That’s radically different to us tech-socialized in the late 90s, early 2000s where Oracle DB was The Database everyone was impressed by.
(DIR) Post #ASoCxBKxj3y8KEfAa8 by charlieok@hachyderm.io
2023-02-18T16:01:21Z
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@seldo not if this description is on-target!https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18442941
(DIR) Post #ASoDAVRwG8LOT4HP8K by rf@mas.to
2023-02-18T16:01:01Z
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@simon god, making the case for it over, say, Aurora Postgres is quite a Task. I bet Oracle Database is a shrinking part of the co's revenue even given it has huge legacy deployments out there
(DIR) Post #ASoDNbQbLJkam3tnma by seldo@alpaca.gold
2023-02-18T16:05:42Z
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@charlieok To *use*, it's nice. I have no idea how it is under the hood.
(DIR) Post #ASoDh7n7F2ikeHjrrk by axleyjc@federate.social
2023-02-18T16:08:25Z
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@simon Do they lock their documentation behind a support paywall? That's not only annoying friction - even if you have a support contract - but also a self-own.
(DIR) Post #ASoEabEfTB9Ztc4vlQ by codehead@fosstodon.org
2023-02-18T16:18:15Z
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@simon Oracle survives in the corporate environment by having paid enterprise support, and legal team enforcement of contracts. Don't forget, Oracle will support MySQL too. In these days, when a company may quickly reduce their workforce, that support is seen as a benefit.However, in reality, PostgreSQL is easier to support than Oracle. The fear of data loss that pushes companies to support contacts can be replaced simply by best practices. Sales folks hide that knowledge to generate sales.
(DIR) Post #ASoFpa1aM1ioRDfNWy by clark@hachyderm.io
2023-02-18T16:32:41Z
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@simon They effectively killed Sleepy Cat with the revised license and support costs. Maybe they see Java as the long term savior but the culture of toll-keeping remains.
(DIR) Post #ASoG0bWN89AuGUK6qG by danielfeldroy@fosstodon.org
2023-02-18T16:32:52Z
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@simon years ago I would have provided a cynical response. Now in 2023 after a decade of business classes teaching MBAs that FOSS is a reduced cost for similar virtue I think things have changed.
(DIR) Post #ASoGBiFWSI5YJkjsjg by divclassbutton@hachyderm.io
2023-02-18T16:33:42Z
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The vast majority of large orgs are going to be using Oracle for the next 30 years at least, so open source claiming all the startups doesn't matter too much in the lifetime of anyone working there today. Decisions are made by those at the top who don't have to deal with the consequences of their decisions day to day.Plenty of tech grows and even thrives with no one liking or willingly using it, VDIs coming straight to mind.
(DIR) Post #ASoGPFUQBDWdAvA7wO by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-02-18T16:39:17Z
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@divclassbutton sure, they can hang on to their revenue from existing customers because ditching it for something else usually doesn't make sense... but public companies need growth that goes beyond what you can squeeze out of existing customersHow many big companies will there be in 30 years that started using Oracle today?
(DIR) Post #ASoGt7hvg6kxj7j47M by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-02-18T16:44:39Z
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@divclassbutton I get the impression they've been diversifying a lot from the Oracle database as their main revenue generating product, which makes sense strategically
(DIR) Post #ASoH5LdXiPdcP1VGW8 by divclassbutton@hachyderm.io
2023-02-18T16:46:12Z
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@simon at my job, we started a slow, slow move away from oracle for some applications, but in the meantime migrated to Oracle EBS.I think they'll probably go the broadcom route, buying companies and taking their new clients hostage.
(DIR) Post #ASoIFpAsqiyArWeplo by ERDonnachie@mstdn.social
2023-02-18T16:59:33Z
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@simon But only Oracle has Burleson Consulting with their pristinely turned-out DBAs.Pleased to see their website still has that authentic 90s look and feel...
(DIR) Post #ASoIVJW0KGHNJ1vFyK by bartek@sfba.social
2023-02-18T17:02:40Z
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@simon nit: MySQL isn't their competition, they own it.
(DIR) Post #ASoJdVPQ5YtWSsJRuy by bartek@sfba.social
2023-02-18T17:15:30Z
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@simonMySQL isn't competition, it's owned by Oracle.I feel like the difference is that with MySQL the product is the database itself, while in case of OracleDB it's all the training, certifications, consulting, and the DB itself is just a small part of it. I have never seen anyone work as Oracle DBA without being Oracle Certified Professional, having taken at least a few of the courses, each is about ~$5K.Same can be said for IBM and their DB/2.
(DIR) Post #ASoMzbWyJB4tgV4ew4 by masukomi@connectified.com
2023-02-18T17:52:52Z
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@simon i don’t think developers ever choose oracle. Companies code it and developers are forced to use it. There’s just no good reason to choose it. PostgreSQL is just too good, radically cheaper, and also has support options.If you’re using oracle it’s not because your peers convinced you it was a good choice.
(DIR) Post #ASoNJi7DXKQFtjcCQ4 by simon@fedi.simonwillison.net
2023-02-18T17:56:43Z
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@masukomi I wonder: at what point do all of the company exec who still fall for that retire, and get replaced by people who were never exposed to the idea that no-one ever got fired for choosing OracleDo Oracle have "the execs that pick us will retire some day" as a risk that they're tracking?
(DIR) Post #ASojwAWWYu1S04CBpQ by ramsey@phpc.social
2023-02-18T22:10:51Z
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@seldo @charlieok I have used it. Years ago, I had a client who required it. It is nice to use.
(DIR) Post #ASorUAffDg8HyxdCVM by josephholsten@mstdn.social
2023-02-18T23:34:32Z
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@simon they’ve had very significant backend storage projects start with Oracle DB and actually switch to MySQL. I personally wonder how much the top level leadership cares about one v other so long as the cloud db units keep growing.
(DIR) Post #ASosfzPH1fayTYAEu8 by josephholsten@mstdn.social
2023-02-18T23:48:03Z
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@simon @masukomi I think a lot of this was required Oracle DB for their ERP or HR system. Now that these are moving to SaaS, companies aren’t already paying for a DBA to keep their inventory and payroll up.Similarly, you won’t see Oracle x9 server hardware in any racks near you. Doesn’t mean there isn’t tons of this hardware powering zoom, tiktok, and other companies you’ve heard of. We don’t care if you don’t know ILOM.
(DIR) Post #ASozVAbrjSEZiOqGdk by kweerious@hachyderm.io
2023-02-19T01:04:12Z
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@simon @divclassbutton As someone who works at Oracle, yes it's not all Oracle DB. It's cloud, MySQL Heatwave, Healthcare, and Fusion/SaaS/ERP/Back Office Software. The docs, videos, courses are out there and a lot of it is free.