Post ASjo2sRHctWbxuOn2W by james@bne.social
(DIR) More posts by james@bne.social
(DIR) Post #ASi95yZyxkhUbCro7E by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:50:44Z
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#websitehttps://podcastindex.orgš š š https://youtu.be/usfiAsWR4qU?t=7
(DIR) Post #ASi9GB4fMUlgFO5Ega by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:52:36Z
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https://podcastindex.org/podcast/920666Cross-app comments.
(DIR) Post #ASi9IGr0qN5ekghAS8 by brianoflondon@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:52:57Z
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@dave for unto us a site is born.....
(DIR) Post #ASi9MwQSDu9uqIV3Jo by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:53:46Z
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@brianoflondon Unto us dark mode is given.
(DIR) Post #ASi9Xu2XQx4Yd2XYRs by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:55:46Z
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@agates Would be proud of me for going all the way and creating a systemd service to start it all up instead of calling a detached screen session from /etc/rc.local.
(DIR) Post #ASi9auJIsv08KtoZP6 by brianoflondon@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:56:15Z
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@dave you've made me want to listen to the Messiah instead of watching Jamie Oliver make Lobster mac 'n cheese (actually it looked fantastic).
(DIR) Post #ASi9g4HFFvUchBJRce by brianoflondon@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:57:14Z
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@dave @agates would be better in Docker š
(DIR) Post #ASi9ilsE8VIsUEtpx2 by js@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:57:44Z
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@dave @brianoflondon Where links doth not appear as links
(DIR) Post #ASi9onzFBz8mmJ3ioS by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:58:50Z
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@js Come on John. They're slightly whiter than the other white things on the screen. Like me.
(DIR) Post #ASi9qIfGcPQ6DHQa5Q by js@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:59:07Z
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@dave actual lol
(DIR) Post #ASi9tH5AxPTSAuxs12 by brianoflondon@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:59:37Z
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@dave @js bit more work needed
(DIR) Post #ASi9tqMllzLNbcSunY by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T17:59:40Z
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@brianoflondon Stop it.
(DIR) Post #ASiA2q648zXJNOwSES by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:01:17Z
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@brianoflondon Post a bug report to the dev?https://github.com/Podcastindex-org/web-ui/pull/221
(DIR) Post #ASiATwcQ0JdrQF00u0 by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:06:14Z
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@dave Cool!And how do I as a podcast-owner moderate the comments on my podcast?
(DIR) Post #ASiBZvl0DhzIRSQsyG by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:18:33Z
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@theDanielJLewis If the podcaster knows how to create an AP thread and insert it into their RSS feed theyāll surely know how to moderate the replies to it. As of now itās not something any podcaster will do without that knowledge. Itās still too techy. These comments all come from the feeds themselves. We donāt host them.
(DIR) Post #ASiBhiUNR0g9blMvc8 by agates@activitypub.agates.io
2023-02-15T18:06:51.288716Z
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@dave I like that it uses my system dark theme, which I have switching at sunrise/sunset
(DIR) Post #ASiBhj3TKWkfMbmxJg by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:19:59Z
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@agates didnāt realize it was pulling from the system. Thatās rad.
(DIR) Post #ASiC0ubGd7GefjkEZE by adam@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:23:17Z
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@dave LOVE it!I want to be able to comment on page as well, of course ;-)
(DIR) Post #ASiCHh2WIh17XQUgQy by volunteertechnologist@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:26:23Z
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@adam @dave that would be nice!
(DIR) Post #ASiDtH6ZH0jo3rs5uS by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:44:18Z
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@adam That was all @dellagustin, @nathan and @js. Teamwork makes the dream work.
(DIR) Post #ASiEkTW7r6nNuBC4ci by volunteertechnologist@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:18:38Z
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@theDanielJLewis my understanding is that the root post used for this would be yours. At that point, comment moderation would be the same as any other Mastodon thread as the comments are all replies to that root post. @dave
(DIR) Post #ASiEkU83a58XnowMkK by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:20:20Z
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@volunteertechnologist @dave So if someone comments from another Mastodon server, even a techie's only option is to block the whole server or the user, right? Or would blocking them even prevent the comment from showing?
(DIR) Post #ASiEkUivN0cxeABoDA by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:54:03Z
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@theDanielJLewis Thatās all up to the library showing the comments. In this instance itās @jsās Threadcap library. Since threadcap would not have a way to know about who you block, I donāt think it would be honoring that in anyway.
(DIR) Post #ASiEyR0rxkM6C1EL8S by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:56:36Z
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@dave @js This is a problem we _must_ solve.If we're still trying to cram cross-app comments into Mastodon, then maybe moderation can be by reply. Like replying with "delete" deletes the comment.But then the commenter can _see_ how their comment was moderated, and that will create problems.I think we need a live brainstorming session on this.Cross-app comments is complicate and has huge potential benefits, but also huge potential harm.
(DIR) Post #ASiGrz9ip1q3xxQJlI by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T19:17:49Z
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@theDanielJLewis I fully understand and appreciate the concern and I think the tooling will get better. I just think it takes a different frame of reference. YouTube == Twitter. ActivityPub == RSS. When there is no central authority, there is no way (short of deleting the root post/feed) to have that level of control. I can control what I see and you can control what you see, but I canāt control what you see. Just like RSS, I can delete a podcast from my app but I canāt delete one from yours.
(DIR) Post #ASiHgUC7h992i5cwhE by StevenB@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T19:26:59Z
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@dave @theDanielJLewis @js Oh boy, the content moderation debate again...If someone owned the server the root post was posted on, could they remove the link to an offending post from their server. If they did remove the link, would Threadcap not be able to find the link to the offending post?
(DIR) Post #ASiI5PEhGeDQZTiJhw by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T19:31:28Z
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@dave I still think this can be solved with a more simpler hosted solution where the comments go directly into a podcaster's own database or JSON file. That could be hosted by a podcast-hosting provider or by the podcaster themselves, and integrate very easily with WordPress or anything else.Have we considered the huge performance demands of ActivityPub as @james has discovered in running his own server? Or is that specifically a _Mastodon_ problem?
(DIR) Post #ASiKoqkU1SWqq8NXDE by dellagustin@fosstodon.org
2023-02-15T20:02:02Z
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@adam @dave Just mind this is not yet at its full potential with respect to performance. I have already created an issue to work on that, there are comments on the PR on how that could be optimized: https://github.com/Podcastindex-org/web-ui/issues/228As for commenting/replying on the page, that's a whole different game.
(DIR) Post #ASiWY3Bfipabwbqs64 by keunes@mastodon.social
2023-02-15T22:13:33Z
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@daveNice!Next steps: making it easy to post from mobile (without requiring podcast clients to merge a whole ActivityPub app).https://fosstodon.org/@AntennaPod/109844984567859264
(DIR) Post #ASihC5mSUy9T71n4pk by boobury@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T00:12:49Z
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@dave I like the new color scheme
(DIR) Post #ASilJFMveDhIh3W4PI by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T00:58:56Z
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@keunes Our idea for simplicity has been that an app can oAuth to the listenerās mastodon(or compatible) instance and get an app token to use for that purpose. The mastodon api is pretty lightweight.
(DIR) Post #ASilS1aCGzXuXjuLc8 by dellagustin@fosstodon.org
2023-02-15T19:55:27Z
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@theDanielJLewis @dave @james I think what you suggest here is already possible with ActivityPub but hosting an instance that does not federate, as I mentioned in another comment. That comes with the obvious trade-off that is, it does not federate - but for some podcasters, that may be exactly what they want. We will need to see how to handle this when replying to comments though, apps expect that you could reply from any instance.
(DIR) Post #ASilS23GWunXztVYvI by james@bne.social
2023-02-15T23:49:53Z
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@dellagustin @theDanielJLewis @dave Fundamentally, if it's too complicated to achieve something, then developers won't be bothered. The Mastodon API is complicated, but the threadcap abstractions, and others, hopefully make it simple enough for devs to incorporate. We need code examples, and examples of best in practice, and documentation.
(DIR) Post #ASilS2hg6f7m1EPpui by james@bne.social
2023-02-15T23:51:16Z
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@dellagustin @theDanielJLewis @dave I'd also suggest that comments by *episode* only work for really big shows. If the average downloads per episode is less than 29 in the first seven days - which Buzzsprout says it is - then doing per-episode comments makes zero sense. We're being driven by the really big shows here, and I think that's a mistake, because the really big shows are a tiny percentage of the total.
(DIR) Post #ASilS3Ee85UnfTqAIi by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T01:00:31Z
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@james Is your suggestion to concentrate more on <channel> level socialInteract?
(DIR) Post #ASio5Nhq9XXYMLNSe8 by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T01:30:05Z
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@boobury Yes that was a kind PR from https://github.com/glaszig
(DIR) Post #ASip3jlRGpqk97qAm8 by james@bne.social
2023-02-16T01:40:56Z
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@dave I don't have a technical solution really. But a channel level socialInteract tag would seem a good solution here for almost all podcasts. I guess the question then is what happens when there are thousands of messages.
(DIR) Post #ASiqAo4dkHUxUfkyC8 by boobury@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T01:53:28Z
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@dave
(DIR) Post #ASjGgaKixvsax95rTU by keunes@mastodon.social
2023-02-16T06:50:30Z
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@daveGetting a token, sure. But isn't that only a small part of the work? You also need to receive reply notifications, a UI to view, post, like & reply to comments, and add all other features I like from Fedilab (e.g. thread indenting).Having all that in a podcast app would feel like bloatware.Opening an external post from the user's server in a WebView I guess could work, but doesn't provide a great experience either.So I've set out to open the object/post in a dedicated app, if available.
(DIR) Post #ASjMgG3owEhRnsPkR6 by moe@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T07:57:42Z
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@dave
(DIR) Post #ASji1cGTg2JHmrMOHY by volunteertechnologist@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T11:56:52Z
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@dave @james I think episode vs channel should be the podcasterās choice, assuming both are available. Personally, I think the context provided by per-episode is preferable for relevant conversations. To me, channel level would be an entirely different use case than episode level.
(DIR) Post #ASjmutf565P7UCU2ds by james@bne.social
2023-02-16T12:25:37Z
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@volunteertechnologist @dave I entirely agree it should be the creator's choice.I'd also suggest that nobody likes an empty pub. In all the successful communities I've run online, they all started with me arguing with myself under different names, to draw other users in and help them feel they weren't alone. My concern is that for the typical 29-download episode, there will be not a single message in the comments section: and nobody looks any good then.
(DIR) Post #ASjmuuAzBSvP59PWN6 by dave@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T12:51:41Z
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@james @volunteertechnologist āentirely different use caseā is an interesting comment. Perhaps when itās at the channel level (currently not in the spec) it functions more like a review and less like a comment? Idk. Thinking out loud.
(DIR) Post #ASjnujQnEY4Ri9HlfE by volunteertechnologist@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T13:02:51Z
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@dave @james yeah, that or just general commentary about the show as opposed to being related to a particular episode
(DIR) Post #ASjo2sRHctWbxuOn2W by james@bne.social
2023-02-16T13:04:18Z
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@dave @volunteertechnologist "I want to talk with other people about this show" vs "I want to talk with other people about this specific episode" - I see it as less specific, but the same use case.
(DIR) Post #ASkMeEqqepNSdFLMa8 by volunteertechnologist@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:23:47Z
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@theDanielJLewis @dave the better option would likely be reporting them to their serverās moderators first, then resort to blocking user or server as needed. Iām not sure about what happens to existing comments if someoneās is blocked.
(DIR) Post #ASkMeFSQP7R2VmvN9U by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:25:36Z
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@volunteertechnologist @dave Such nuclear options aren't always necessary.Here's an example: I don't want profanity on my podcast properties. So if someone comments with profanity, I delete it. But that doesn't mean I want to block them from future comments, and I don't think that's worth reporting (unless they're being verbally abusive).
(DIR) Post #ASkMeG0oLGwOER0pkW by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:26:36Z
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@volunteertechnologist @dave Or maybe someone comments with a link to something I am opposed to, but it doesn't violate any rules; I simply don't want that comment associated with my content.
(DIR) Post #ASkMeGVeUbbvm5RSoy by volunteertechnologist@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:27:13Z
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@theDanielJLewis @dave how would you have handled that on Twitter?
(DIR) Post #ASkMeH1uYfPnO8XE6S by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:28:29Z
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@volunteertechnologist @dave Twitter is not my platform, my podcast is.But for plugins that can integrate Twitter replies with my website comments, they also give me the ability to remove those same offending replies from showing on my platform.
(DIR) Post #ASkMeHSqwUxwjh8k64 by volunteertechnologist@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:30:09Z
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@theDanielJLewis @dave I think youāre missing the point: what I was trying to ask is how on Twitter youād have moderated a reply to a post you made about an episode.
(DIR) Post #ASkMeI1EseTISLECh6 by volunteertechnologist@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:32:08Z
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@theDanielJLewis @dave thatās the workflow thatās relevant here, not the one for your website.
(DIR) Post #ASkMeIb2jX6yFNynVA by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:33:38Z
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@volunteertechnologist @dave I think we're rushing into this and we're going to end up stabbing a lot of podcasters with the scissors in our hands, making one of the best P2.0 features become one of the most hated if we don't do this right from the start.
(DIR) Post #ASkMeJ7emHCPsXEqKu by volunteertechnologist@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:41:27Z
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@theDanielJLewis @dave Social media based comments, or any other system that doesnāt originate on your own server, are likely always going to have this limitation unless the chosen platform has a process for moderating replies to your threads. Iād love to see that functionality in Mastodon fwiw.
(DIR) Post #ASkMeKxRxCDtZSTihk by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T18:27:21Z
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@volunteertechnologist @dave These are the things I think we need to figure out before we rush into locking ourselves into a technology that doesn't give podcasters the control, ownership, and portability they need.
(DIR) Post #ASkMjuoY4GgqE2yUro by StevenB@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T19:35:50Z
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@theDanielJLewis @dave The beauty of podcast:socialInteract is it is extendable, so in theory a different, moderated solution could be developed, and if a better solution, adopted by podcast hosts and apps. However, the people who are willing and able to build out the cross-app comments have already decided on using Activity Pub, so that's the tool that's being used currently, despite any downsides it may have. Often, the doers get to decide by virtue of their doing.
(DIR) Post #ASkMjwkirSomElCTBI by StevenB@podcastindex.social
2023-02-15T19:38:32Z
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@theDanielJLewis @dave I'm personally not opposed to the hosted solution. I don't mind comments being centralized to a podcaster any more than I mind chapters being centralized to the podcaster. As asshole as it sounds though, if you want a different solution, you may have to build and demonstrate why it's a better solution, just like how Oscar decided he was going to run with Lightning Comments.If you wrote up the specs for how a hosted solution would work, I would probably support it.
(DIR) Post #ASkNYipAPErLo9UTA0 by agates@activitypub.agates.io
2023-02-15T20:09:00.929393Z
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@StevenBYes, you can theoretically delete a post from showing up in a thread from your server. The manner in which this is implemented in tooling will vary.It can not, however, force deletion of the original post nor force it to be purged from other people's servers (although it can ask nicely).Blocking and muting goes a long way. No different from current Mastofon usage.I would ask people to remember that this is the first time we're implementing public, decentralized, two-way communication within podcasting. If you don't want to participate in an open discourse on equal footing, don't. It's opt-in.@dave @theDanielJLewis @js
(DIR) Post #ASkNbgUHYDU1Qf8O9Y by theDanielJLewis@podcastindex.social
2023-02-16T04:12:09Z
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@james @dellagustin @dave I don't see this as being only for big podcasters.I've had small podcasts get _website_ comments before. And that was from people who had to manually switch _away_ from their podcast apps to go visit a website.I think bringing episode comments into the podcast player will help increase engagement significantly because you'll be able to comment in the same place as you're listening (as long as it's a P2.0 app).
(DIR) Post #ASkNbh4nMSgrFuDY48 by james@bne.social
2023-02-16T04:46:55Z
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@theDanielJLewis @dellagustin @dave I agree wholeheartedly. But I'm suggesting that if the typical downloads for a show is 29 per episode then it's unrealistic for small podcasts to get many different comments per _episode_ and I think it makes more sense to have comments for the _show_ not the _episode_