Post ASggA5xKO4TYo4RFRI by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #ASgWIpMQSSd4OzheMK by simon@weeaboo.space
2023-02-14T21:02:03.140883Z
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@wolf480pl I hope the people of poland are currently roasting their government for making a big fuss about delivering Leopards but then then nopeing out of this and leaving Germany as pretty much the only country delivering meaningful numbers of tanks.Have you read the comment from our defense minister?*Asked if he could understand countries that pushed Germany to send such advanced weapons systems to Ukraine and were now not delivering their own, he said: “As I’m in a diplomatic arena right now, I would just say — not much.”*https://www.ft.com/content/49233164-d28b-4d7d-868c-88e642e28e0b
(DIR) Post #ASgWIqDxFRRn50kOnI by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-02-14T23:01:12Z
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@simon the article is paywalled, and the part you quoted doesn't have enough context for me to understand it, let alone have an opinion about it.As for tanks themselves: AFAIK Germany has declared to send 178 Leo1s and 14 Leo2s so far. Is there more Germany is sending that I don't know of, or any tanks Germany sent previously?
(DIR) Post #ASgY1sg54WwNfuwYwS by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-02-14T23:20:35Z
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@simon As for Poland nopeing out - I'm confused, I'm hearing it from you first, and I'm also seeing people on twitter post about Poland sending 14 Leo2A4 tanks. The existence of "coalition" is questionable (12 Leo2A4 by NO, ES and CA in total), but trying to search "poland wont send leopards" yields nothing recent in google nor duckduckgo, so idk...
(DIR) Post #ASgYem8TKTE0g9lmQS by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-02-14T23:27:29Z
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@simon As for the big picture - Poland has been sending various variants of T-72 since the start, has now sent over 300 of them, and they're almost a drop-in replacement for the ones UA lost.The 170+ Leo1s by Germany are commendable even though they're quite old, only slightly better than T-62 and in many aspects worse than T-72.The Leo2s - I hope there's gonna be more than the 40 of them that I know of - that's not even a full battalion.
(DIR) Post #ASggA5xKO4TYo4RFRI by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-02-15T00:51:33Z
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@simon also, as for people of poland roasting the govt - I don't know what an average Pole thinks on the topic. The ones whose opinion I heard are non-average in that they've been closely following the conflict since the start and they're worried that we (NATO) barely keep up replacing the tanks UA loses every month, and the end of the war is nowhere in sight.
(DIR) Post #AShbR0yZqlubfjEPL6 by simon@weeaboo.space
2023-02-15T11:04:00.550744Z
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@wolf480pl oh, the paywall wasn't there when I accessed it, here is a paywall free version:https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2F49233164-d28b-4d7d-868c-88e642e28e0bAlso as a general consent among the Military community which Tank is better than the other does not really matter since the amount of Tank vs Tank duels is rather small. Numbers count. Leo1 are relatively light which allows wider deployment and without reconsidering Terrain for Ukrainian army.
(DIR) Post #AShbR1YNheYHSlz09A by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-02-15T11:33:19Z
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@simon > But so far, apart from Germany, only Poland has approved substantial deliveries. Late last month, Canada announced it would send four Leopard 2 tanks and Norway said on Tuesday it was also providing eight.So this contradicts the claim that it's Poland "nopeing out".
(DIR) Post #AShbcJ7eir6N8arXfs by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-02-15T11:35:31Z
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@simon The thing PL govt deserves to be roasted for is pretending that there's a coalition while there isn't one (unless it later turns out the 4 from CA and 8 from NO are just a start, but it's not looking good rn).But we're not the ones not sending.
(DIR) Post #AShcIOOtUO73fZzeGO by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-02-15T11:42:46Z
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@simon as for tank quality not mattering - resistance to non-tanks (eg. ATGMs) also matters.Wrt. mass, Leo1 weighs about as much as T-72 so I don't think it'll be better at going through difficult terrain than what UA already had, though it could be better than that compared to Leo2.I'm sure the Leo1s will be useful to more-or-less replace 3 months worth of T-72 losses.
(DIR) Post #AShcKo70rgw9zYmUDY by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2023-02-15T11:43:04Z
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@simon as for tank quality not mattering - resistance to non-tanks (eg. ATGMs) also matters.Wrt. mass, Leo1 weighs about as much as T-72 so I don't think it'll be better at going through difficult terrain than what UA already had, though it could be better than that compared to Leo2.I'm sure the Leo1s will be useful to more-or-less replace 3 months worth of lost T-72s