Post ASgJhbOUDySCv89My8 by tdwllms1@mstdn.social
(DIR) More posts by tdwllms1@mstdn.social
(DIR) Post #ASgJhVUeA9ogcUzCjo by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T14:04:17Z
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Of course:Former VP Pious McKissAss #Pence is expected to fight special counsel #JackSmith's #GrandJury subpoena, sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News Newshttps://breaking.iavian.net/article/329791
(DIR) Post #ASgJhWBXag7ylX3Sb2 by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T14:26:21Z
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2/ Via CNN: “… based on the grounds that he was president of the Senate at the time and therefore shielded from the order”
(DIR) Post #ASgJhWi9dQDQOgJVQm by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T14:32:20Z
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3/ Kyle Cheney did a thread on this:The VP draws power from both the executive branch and Congress — and Pence’s Jan. 6 role was explicitly on the congressional side of the line, allies say.That makes a DOJ subpoena off limits under the Constitution’s speech or debate clause.It’s a theory that is largely untested in court but that both the Senate and, crucially, DOJ have embraced in recent years.DOJ argued explicitly in 2019 that Pence’s Jan. 6 role was covered by speech/debate clause
(DIR) Post #ASgJhXJ1QLhqF1Ywtc by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T14:33:09Z
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4/ More: This is NOT the executive privilege argument that was almost universally expected after the news of the Pence subpoena.And constitutional scholars say it’s a reasonably sound theory that a court will almost certainly have to decide.The biggest questions:-Is the Jan. 6 session of Congress a “legislative” activity or something bigger? -If it applies at all, how far does Pence’s legislative immunity extend?Experts say it’s the first time this issue will be explicitly tested.
(DIR) Post #ASgJhXrPMVDBxfePUe by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T14:34:30Z
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5/ More:Despite VP’s widely accepted role as a top Exec Branch official, the office draws nearly all of its constitutional power from Article I — the pres (and tiebreaker) of the Senate.It’s a true hybrid of legislative/executive power.Most importantly: The speech or debate clause is nearly impenetrable when it comes to the official business of Congress. Unlike executive privilege, there are virtually no exceptions.Hard to argue Pence’a Jan. 6 role wasn’t part of his official business
(DIR) Post #ASgJhYRDDNqrkiP0Ii by JamesGleick@zirk.us
2023-02-14T15:05:08Z
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@GottaLaff But, but, but … let’s say they want to question Pence, not about what he did on Jan. 6 as president of the Senate, but about what Trump, earlier, asked or demanded that he do?Can the speech and debate clause protect a legislator who casts a certain vote from answering questions about the man who handed him a brown envelope full of cash as advance payment for casting that vote?
(DIR) Post #ASgJhYwlK55ZKZACTg by tdwllms1@mstdn.social
2023-02-14T16:13:04Z
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@JamesGleick @GottaLaff He can't claim both... to be serving as a member of the senate, as he's not, the role was strictly ceremonial under these circumstances. based on the "Ceremonial Role" he's not acting as Pres. of the Senate. Senators from both parties have reached an agreement to clarify that the vice president only has a ceremonial role in overseeing the certification of the electoral results, according to two Senate sources, https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/14/politics/electoral-count-act-agreement-senators/index.html
(DIR) Post #ASgJhZLvoVDoacwIi0 by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T14:35:32Z
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6/ More:And the speech or debate clause — while it explicitly protects only House members/senators — has been interpreted broadly by the courts to include congressional staff and officers involved in the legislative process.Put simply: A court (probably the Supreme Court) is going to have to decide whether Pence must testify. And in the process, it may answer unresolved questions about the vice presidency itself.…
(DIR) Post #ASgJhZLvoVDoacwIi1 by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T18:28:28Z
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@tdwllms1 Yes, but that'll be a court decision, and guess whose 6-3 justices will win...
(DIR) Post #ASgJha0hMvpcd40rFg by SteveLemson@mindly.social
2023-02-14T18:47:44Z
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@GottaLaff @tdwllms1 Inevitably.
(DIR) Post #ASgJhaTlcr5G5Dc4Yq by tdwllms1@mstdn.social
2023-02-14T19:10:30Z
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@SteveLemson @GottaLaff let's get it there and see... first it has to go thru the lower courts... let's put this discussion before the people and courts and see.... He's already said enough in his memoir he was part of numerous conversations. looking forward to see what some our experts say.. like Marcy Wheeler and Teri Kanefield... Joyce Vance.. https://twitter.com/neal_katyal/status/1625522371858931712?s=20
(DIR) Post #ASgJhaxtopBdafi8Wm by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T19:18:11Z
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@tdwllms1 I hear ya. I just don't trust the courts. @SteveLemson
(DIR) Post #ASgJhazJjYJxf4NGjo by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T14:37:09Z
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7/ More: https://t.co/4SzERqI2POAnother question: Could Pence simply waive his speech/debate protection and testify?That’s less clear: The privileges belong to the institution, not individual officers and judges aren’t sure it can be waived at all. Like here, in Meadows v Pelosi: https://t.co/4SzERqHv0gWhile researching this story, I took great amusement at this Nixon-era 1973 DOJ opinion that said the president can't be indicted while in office but the vice president can.
(DIR) Post #ASgJhbOUDySCv89My8 by tdwllms1@mstdn.social
2023-02-14T20:39:38Z
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@SteveLemson @GottaLaff MSNBC just reminded me… Lindsey Graham tried this tactic and lost in Georgia … and he’s is a sitting member of congress… We shall see…
(DIR) Post #ASgJhcxyNWQxnTlDv6 by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T14:38:12Z
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8/8 And here's another example of DOJ, in 2019, embracing the notion that vice president enjoys protection from speech or debate clause, when it comes to duties as Senate president. https://t.co/0KiYTOYTcs
(DIR) Post #ASgJhesjFzQZjnK41Y by GottaLaff@mastodon.social
2023-02-14T15:55:54Z
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9/ That thread differs from Angry Staffer’s reaction:“Good luck with that. This is only slightly less ridiculous than “absolute immunity”