Post ASfnVd0bCLGHv7Duvg by jonbodner@noc.social
(DIR) More posts by jonbodner@noc.social
(DIR) Post #ASaS5OXvHFl8hzf15U by mmu_man@m.g3l.org
2023-02-12T00:45:55Z
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@davidgerard Telemetry is a No-Go for me.
(DIR) Post #ASaiZmHJCmVgGZOneS by seanmcbeth@arvr.social
2023-02-12T03:50:40Z
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@davidgerard how did the software industry survive before telemetry? The way these companies make it sound, they'd be out on the street with their hats in their hands if they couldn't phone home.
(DIR) Post #ASbSGkxEUydWY9sPUu by ericmjl@octodon.social
2023-02-12T12:22:37Z
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@mmu_man @davidgerard I love the pun here!
(DIR) Post #ASbzzhPHpdhx4A2KUS by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-11T23:50:24Z
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@davidgerard let me guess, they're using a variant of the Contributor Covenant to do that. It's real good for suppressing people, it's what it was made for.
(DIR) Post #ASc2j5dwlfXVApfKNs by mic92@toot.matereal.eu
2023-02-12T19:00:40Z
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@davidgerard @bmcgee84 we will make it opt in nixpkgs for sure.
(DIR) Post #ASc4okt92xKURvbTfM by hellvolution@mastodon.social
2023-02-12T18:39:49Z
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@davidgerard no GNU Go, no Go!
(DIR) Post #ASc4olNHEvQrxNhXdI by louis@emacs.ch
2023-02-12T19:21:10Z
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@hellvolution @davidgerard There is a GNU Go actually:https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.8.4/gccgo/But, old.
(DIR) Post #ASc50rYu3oMwccuPse by vertigo@hackers.town
2023-02-12T19:36:45Z
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@seanmcbeth @davidgerard They relied heavily on such medieval techniques as maintaining customer support staff, user surveys, keeping an eye on outside support channels, etc.But, we are in the renny-seance period now, so companies are better than that. All hail Big Data. Don't forget to rub Big Table's belly for good luck.
(DIR) Post #ASc7iepwvuHjo1tQFU by csepp@merveilles.town
2023-02-12T20:01:52Z
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@davidgerard @gewalker Amazon causes way more environmental and social issues than cryptocurrencies, not that I'm a fan of most cryptocurrencies. I wouldn't be surprised if they also provided infrastructure for Palantir.That's kind of part of the problem with them.
(DIR) Post #ASc7igO1Aj8Abyq8zQ by csepp@merveilles.town
2023-02-12T20:04:00Z
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@davidgerard @gewalker Found the post I was looking for:https://nitter.kavin.rocks/steveklabnik/status/1437441118745071617
(DIR) Post #AScCrUJVvW8hXukeB6 by orangestar@wetdry.world
2023-02-12T21:04:44Z
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@seanmcbeth IIRC, aggressive registration cards. Telemetry just made that easier.
(DIR) Post #AScDLtpbcKqNNJGOP2 by wakingrufus@bigshoulders.city
2023-02-12T21:10:02Z
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@seanmcbeth@davidgerard Without telemetry you might have to actually *gasp* talk to your user community
(DIR) Post #AScDczg18b0WQWvhce by otte_homan@theblower.au
2023-02-12T21:13:19Z
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@seanmcbeth @davidgerard prod profiling might be helpful for dev purposes but what *exactly* are they telemetrizing anyway? Execution times of sprintf() statements? WiFi ping latency? How is that helping beta?
(DIR) Post #AScFSAjrruSxSThMKO by mtomczak@qoto.org
2023-02-12T21:33:46Z
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@seanmcbeth @davidgerard Software was worse because it mostly relied on guesswork and self-reporting.Certainly doable without it, but so is driving a car with manual transmission.
(DIR) Post #AScHDu03VSddOiaqYK by nemobis@mamot.fr
2023-02-12T17:06:33Z
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@adversary Indeed.https://go.dev/conductSuch codes of conduct are designed to ensure that a central power structure (usually a corporation) has total and unappealable control on the project and can use such power with minimal review. In the case of #Golang, ultimate power on any conflict is given to Google's OSPO (whoever that is now that Chris DiBona has been laid off).
(DIR) Post #AScRdfsdcmaGg33Geu by jbqueru@fosstodon.org
2023-02-12T23:50:17Z
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@seanmcbeth @davidgerard In the meantime, agile happened, and it's addictive.
(DIR) Post #ASdftz6dVKLtSFEM5o by w@arachnid.town
2023-02-13T14:04:24.083294Z
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@davidgerard Source? All the hidden comments I saw were either off-topic or mean.
(DIR) Post #ASdgmnI98CaijwkWnI by w@arachnid.town
2023-02-13T14:14:17.104246Z
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@davidgerard
(DIR) Post #ASdv152xJXPZDcLneq by craftyguy@freeradical.zone
2023-02-13T16:54:11Z
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@davidgerard just curious if anyone here actually read any of the hidden comments in that issue thread...For example, these gems towards the bottom:https://github.com/golang/go/discussions/58409#discussioncomment-4938227https://github.com/golang/go/discussions/58409#discussioncomment-4939670https://github.com/golang/go/discussions/58409#discussioncomment-4933482I hate Google just as much as the rest of y'all, but these comments that were hidden seem... off-topic at best, and not a helpful objection to the issue being raised. The hidden comments I read make us who really don't want telemetry in Go look like a bunch of crazies.
(DIR) Post #ASfiCljc1zt3i7SxFY by jonbodner@noc.social
2023-02-13T13:44:40Z
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@otte_homan @seanmcbeth @davidgerard The telemetry proposal is intended to gather data about what platforms (OS/hardware) people are using to build Go programs and what compiler features they are using. https://research.swtch.com/telemetry-uses describes potential uses. https://research.swtch.com/telemetry-design describes the proposed design.
(DIR) Post #ASfiCmU3FL2A29C2dM by zero@mastodon.cisti.org
2023-02-14T10:21:38Z
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@jonbodner @otte_homan @seanmcbeth @davidgerard They can always change the terms, and Google being Google, well...Someone raised the question: https://github.com/golang/go/discussions/58409#discussioncomment-4923770 ...and was marked as "spam".
(DIR) Post #ASfiCn398r6fmzc4Ku by jonbodner@noc.social
2023-02-14T12:54:07Z
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@zero @otte_homan @seanmcbeth @davidgerard Probably because that’s not a valid argument. They could do lots of things in the future. What does that have to do with the current proposal? Slippery slope arguments are non falsifiable because they assume knowledge of the future. I understand concerns about Google, since their business model is gathering data on people to sell ads against that data. But that’s not what’s happening here.
(DIR) Post #ASfiCnZPCuuXP2hpcO by seanmcbeth@arvr.social
2023-02-14T13:40:03Z
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@jonbodner @zero @otte_homan @davidgerard >> Slippery slope arguments are non falsifiable because they assume knowledge of the future. We're not running an RCT. It's a mistake to apply strict rules of logic. Logic says nothing about issues of character and that's what is at question here: the character of Google. Slippery slopes very often do get slid down, especially when dealing with corporate surveillance mechanics.
(DIR) Post #ASfibClnAOoiVb8aTw by jonbodner@noc.social
2023-02-14T13:44:23Z
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@seanmcbeth @zero @otte_homan @davidgerard it’s hard to have an argument that rises above the level of ad hominem attack without the rules of logic. But they can be funny, I guess. https://youtu.be/xpAvcGcEc0k
(DIR) Post #ASfj7LjZNEFFZqQSDQ by seanmcbeth@arvr.social
2023-02-14T13:50:18Z
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@jonbodner @zero @otte_homan @davidgerard ad hominem is not a logical fallacy when the character of the party is what is in question. Quoting logical fallacies to try to shut down conversation, however, is.It's simple. You don't think Google is violating or ever will violate this trust. The rest of us think they've demonstrated a willingness to do so on several occasions in the past.
(DIR) Post #ASfnVd0bCLGHv7Duvg by jonbodner@noc.social
2023-02-14T14:37:33Z
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@seanmcbeth @zero @otte_homan @davidgerard That’s not quite my point. My point is that they have currently done nothing but propose a pretty limited way to find out if they can obsolete some compiler features. It doesn’t even exist yet. It’s good to be skeptical. But people have invented wild fantasies of what the proposal contains and have already decided what will most certainly be done. There’s no point in engaging in that case.
(DIR) Post #ASfybQcdGMPQjlyv2m by dalias@hachyderm.io
2023-02-12T23:15:08Z
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@nemobis @adversary That's absolutely not what CC is made for. It's what fake corporate or ass-covering CoCs that ignore power dynamics and entrenched systems of oppression are made for. CC is designed not to do that, but of course a bad actor adopting or adapting it as CYA can try to use it that way.
(DIR) Post #ASfybRiLCcZO7leza4 by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:23:07Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerard The CC was primarily adapted from the policy documents of the Geek Feminism wiki, which itself was a project of the Ada Initiative.Those policy docs were written by a dyadic trans man from the Bay Area named Tim Chevalier (aka Monadic, aka fatneckbeardguy on Twitter). Chevalier designed these policy documents to not just enable, but to actively sanction the use of these policies to suppress his political opposition.1/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybSPEd8sgGnjFRI by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:23:48Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardThe CC was directly adapted from these policy documents by Coraline Ehmke, who is a friend of Chevalier's. That's why the GF wiki is referenced in the footer of it.The other thing referenced in the footer was the first attempt to turn the GF policies into a CoC.2/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybT06Q4N678ygu8 by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:24:19Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardIf you hunt around on Twitter, you may be able to find Coraline's side of their conversation discussing how the intention of the GF policy, the CC, and the use of the language in them is intended to enable the enforcing of their specific political aims by way of protecting certain classes of people.You won't be able to see Chevalier's side of that chat, he locked his accounts after being fired from Google in 2018.3/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybTY8NXarogtrwu by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:24:50Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardThere are a number of classes of people that Chevalier wanted to be able to act against with impunity, but I will limit my comments to the specific prejudice of his which I have direct experience of and which I can explain the full implications of.Strap in, this gets nasty.4/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybU8ID6W7cpokJE by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:25:22Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardTim Chevalier is a massive, raging #interphobe. The protected classes of people were specifically devised to prevent #intersex people being protected on account of our intersex variations; which are all physical, genetic variations.The only way for us to be protected is if we accept his position that intersex is under the trans umbrella or that it is a disability.Both of these are wrong.5/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybUmhmqqLeAj1Ie by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:26:05Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardThe view of intersex-led human rights orgs is that issues of both #trans and #intersex rights fundamentally boil down to matters of #BodilyAutonomy and #SelfDetermination. So intersex people should be free of non-consensual medical interventions, while everyone should be free to choose whatever medical treatment is right for them, including trans people.Chevalier does not share this view.6/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybVV186HxrbSPMu by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:26:34Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardChevalier's position is that everything centres around access to medical treatments. These procedures are either available or they're not; and he views the fight for #intersex human rights as a potential threat to #trans healthcare.Especially the campaigns to end #IntersexGenitalMutilation (#IGM) and other sterilising procedures.7/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybWFoK7ieCjLmIy by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:27:05Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardThe GF policies, the CC, and all derivative policies have been intentionally crafted to enforce these prejudices within all the projects and orgs which adopt them or any policy derived from them.As this thread already shows, that includes some quite large projects; such as entire programming languages, like #GoLang and #Python. It also includes #FreeBSD (hi @benno) and the #LinuxKernel.8/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybX6d9jyCqY3xdQ by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:27:54Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardMy own adverse encounters with this stemmed from direct conflict with Chevalier in the middle of 2016 by way of the Geek Feminism wiki. In that case he used the policy documents he devised to silence my attempt to correct his definition of what #intersex is on that site (which states, amongst other things, that intersex is "under the trans umbrella").9/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybYfPLvNnghLFTs by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:28:24Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardOne of the tactics used by Chevalier in this conflict, and which Coraline Ehmke has also used in some of her online discussions, is to redefine "biological essentialism" to cover all discussion of physical sex characteristics and thus all discussion of intersex variations.Real biological essentialism is stating things like "men are XY and women are XX" and that example is interphobic because there are intersex variations that fall outside that.10/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybZKAuLzbj8Po1Y by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:28:53Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardChevalier and Ehmke redefine it to cover discussion of any biological trait. In doing so they enable classifying intersex people discussing intersex variations as the same thing.So any discussion of the genetic causes of an intersex variation (bear in mind that many of them are named for the nature of that genetic variation), is now reclassified as biological essentialism and thus transphobic.11/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybZpN2MwjHt0ieG by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:29:26Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardThus they are both able to twist the actual meaning of biological essentialism to use it as a means to explicitly silence intersex people, whom they see as a threat to trans rights.Mainly as a result of an unfounded fear of the consequences of intersex people obtaining human rights and banning non-consensual medical interventions.12/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybaGfOsmSeXmWC8 by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:30:03Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardTo use myself as an example, this is a non-exhaustive list of how I am in automatic breach of the GF wiki policies, the CC and all policies derived from them:1) I am intersex and neither trans nor cis.2) I oppose IGM and other non-consensual medical interventions.3) My intersex variation is not a disability.13/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybatf3tyMbU1eyW by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:30:42Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerard4) My intersex variation is a naturally occurring (cause = pure random chance, BTW, and that's true random, not pseudo-random like in computing) physical, genetic variation.5) I believe it is possible for everyone to be able to be free of non-consensual medical intervention, while being able to access whatever healthcare they do wish to consent to.14/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybbbyP9Pyoul32m by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:31:10Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerard6) I do NOT believe that intersex people are inherently transphobic just for existing.7) As a public signatory to the Darlington Statement I clearly support the intersex human rights movement (hi @intersexaus).https://ihra.org.au/darlington-statement/15/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybc8wQZn0TABNQm by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:31:52Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerard8) Support for the Darlington Statement is mutually exclusive from the GF wiki policies, the #ContributorCovenant and ALL policies and CoCs derived from them.9) They are mutually exclusive because Tim Chevalier explicitly and intentionally crafted his policies to facilitate the enforcement of his view of us in any community in which those policies or their derivatives apply.16/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybcks9Y8AMnvfYO by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:32:29Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerard10) I believe that opposing the rights of #intersex people to #BodilyAutonomy is inherently #interphobic.11) I believe that even if current medical interventions on intersex people do provide medical practitioners the means of honing the skills and knowledge to practice gender affirming care; that is not justification to use intersex people for that purpose.17/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybdLjwTcaD9B71E by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:33:02Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerard12) To reiterate the previous point; I believe that intersex people are deserving of human rights and should not be used as experiments for the benefit of others.13) I also believe that intersex people should be free to be who and what we are, and to express ourselves on these issues without censure or suppression from #endosex people (dyadic/endosex = not intersex).18/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybdyNcoWu8zFyFM by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:33:35Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardEvery project and organisation, whether commercial or not, which adopts any version of these policies in any capacity has the interphobia baked in. No ifs, buts, or maybes. As a consequence they are all interphobic.Google is particularly egregious with this; having hired both Chevalier and #AdaInitiave co-founder, Mary Gardiner. They've made interphobia part of their culture.19/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybeSVomdHeRM2DI by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:35:13Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardThat said, certain other projects have added worse things. #Drupal added a carefully crafted "Diversity Statement" to complement the CC which makes it impossible to have any contact with the project at all without agreeing to inherently interphobic policies. Thus insulating the project from anyone automatically excluded by the CC.This has also been adopted by the #PythonSoftwareFoundation.20/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybf3Nbi7hUmbTg8 by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:35:38Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardThat last one is very disappointing for me.I've been using #Python since 1999 and in 2018, while I was busy working on the official Python bindings of the #GnuPG #GPGME #C #API, the #PSF decided that I and everyone like me are persona non grata.So be it.21/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybfpEjmP7tCzhGy by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:36:29Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardIt's not like no one at the #PSF knew this either. I raised it with @nedbat on IRC a few years ago. He even raised it as an issue in the CC issue tracker on #GitHub at that time. Coraline Ehmke closed the ticket citing, IIRC, "biological essentialism" as the reason for doing so.Still, that didn't stop the PSF adopting the CC with the #Drupal Diversity Statement mod, so they're just as complicit.22/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybguEifzvF0LChk by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:37:32Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardFinally, before circling back, this last part is not directed at anyone explicitly tagged anywhere in this thread, but to people who come across it later (which is likely with all the hashtags used and the thread should be seen and boosted): I have a hard line, zero tolerance for interphobia. I will block and report interphobes and I will refute interphobic bullshit (at least sometimes).Though if you read this far, that should be obvious.23/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybhSGg9DgwYGNkW by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-13T04:37:54Z
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@dalias @nemobis @davidgerardSo, to get back to your interpretation of these policies; no, it is not and never was a tool for furthering human rights. It is, and always has been, a means of enforcing a very narrow and specific view of human diversity which enables protections for some while explicitly targeting others for discrimination.It is objectively harmful and readily weaponised because it was always intended to be weaponised.24/24
(DIR) Post #ASfybi38T4i6mtVpDM by glitch@pl.glitch.pm
2023-02-13T16:25:09.508927Z
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@adversary @dalias @nemobis @davidgerard if you want people to listen to what you have to say, a 24 statuses long essay is not the best way to do it.
(DIR) Post #ASfybizGyvDNhCiFpg by adversary@chaos.social
2023-02-14T02:36:56Z
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@glitch The perils of being on an instance which actually adheres to the spec (i.e. 500 characters.Given how many instances use the CC as their basis (specifically version 1.4), I can't join a lot of them. See the 24-part thread for why. So meh.
(DIR) Post #ASfybjPrO4Tx1f9UH2 by glitch@pl.glitch.pm
2023-02-14T16:34:11.450159Z
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@adversary The activitypub spec makes no claims about character length. You're on an instance that artificially chose to limit the count to 500 characters.Anyway it's still too long even considering that. You're telling me that you need a 12000 character count to convey what you want to say? Get outta here. That's longer than a reddit comment. At that point just put it in a blog.
(DIR) Post #AShGoPmvfQxuFT6Fpg by fahru@fosstodon.org
2023-02-15T07:42:31Z
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@mmu_man Go-od one (sorry)
(DIR) Post #ASrRRNK5hz5X1FQWJc by w@arachnid.town
2023-02-20T05:28:09.542295Z
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@davidgerard I swear I'm not a techbro, I just simp for Rob Pike.