Post ASfMdndUs81GR15cQK by galdor@emacs.ch
(DIR) More posts by galdor@emacs.ch
(DIR) Post #ASfMdndUs81GR15cQK by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-14T09:38:26Z
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There is something deeply broken with open source. This is why you should not provide free support to users.https://github.com/zloirock/core-js/blob/master/docs/2023-02-14-so-whats-next.md
(DIR) Post #ASfNKH0a3Zxzh58jSK by veer66@mstdn.io
2023-02-14T09:46:03Z
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@galdor What do you mean by "free support"? Do you mind giving a few examples?
(DIR) Post #ASfO7B2t0zN9OFXNzs by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-14T09:54:57Z
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@veer66 If someone ask for something related to your project (feature, bug fix, help) and you are spending your time to do it, you a providing free support.I do not mind doing it for small things, when the person is polite, or if they provide useful information (a precise bug report for example). But when it reaches the point described by the core-js author, you have to ask yourself why you are working for free for so many.
(DIR) Post #ASfRkucvmImxul2Hfk by louis@emacs.ch
2023-02-14T10:35:41Z
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@galdor The story of the core-js dev is heartbreaking. Not because he didn't receive proper funding but because of all the hatred he had to endure over time when asking for help.He should have ceased his work on core-js a long time ago, and he should do so now. The environment he provided his work for free for doesn't deserve any free work.That is the broken "open-source" philosophy of the Web which is nothing else than cheap extraction of dev work by corporations to build their billion-dollar businesses upon.
(DIR) Post #ASfRsasf4uCczO3ZHE by louis@emacs.ch
2023-02-14T10:37:05Z
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@galdor The story of the core-js dev is heartbreaking. Not because he didn't receive proper funding but because of all the hatred he had to endure over time when asking for help.He should have ceased his work on core-js a long time ago, and he should do so now. The environment he provided his work for free for doesn't deserve any free work. That was his life-mistake. Unfortunately he repeats the same mistake over and over _and over_ again.That is the broken "open-source" philosophy of the Web which is nothing else than cheap extraction of dev work by corporations to build their billion-dollar businesses upon.
(DIR) Post #ASfSiIhVuoEbfDUw0O by louis@emacs.ch
2023-02-14T10:46:27Z
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@galdor And it is in fact so easy to extract free dev work worth billions of dollars. The recipe is:1. "Hey, look, we give you this cool web UI where you can upload your open-source code and collaborate with all the other open-source slaves, how cool is that?"2. "Hey, look, we give you this cool text editor! It contains thousands of extensions from other open-source slaves which you can use and even build your own open-source extensions for! In exchange for 1 + 2, we train our AI which will soon be a commercial product for businesses to code 20 times faster thanks to your contributions. But, psst, we won't tell you that until ..."3. "Hey, look, we give you this cool programming language built by the compiler masterminds with a cool tool chain and it even creates binaries for every platform on earth (ok they are 40MB even for a hello-world-program but who cares, right?). Our cool language is <open-source> and you can be a cool guy and report your bugs and upload your code contributions _for free_! How cool is that? And after half of the industry adopted our cool, free language, we will use it to collect data from every server and docker container on earth that deploys code written for our language, but psst, we won't tell you the last part until ..."TBC
(DIR) Post #ASfTRAWNAqL3KHgJsW by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-14T10:54:34Z
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@louis Spot on.It is no surprise that so many companies have been promoting open source for years: they quickly understood that it was free labour. And if you do not play ball, you are quickly labelled as "refusing to collaborate with the community" and "not able to work in a team" (do not ask me what "the community" and "the team" is supposed to be in the open source world).Fortunately there are still lots of developers interacting in a positive way. You just have to ignore the rest.
(DIR) Post #ASfa1XHacjcW4OUWUi by dusthillperson@mastodon.me.uk
2023-02-14T12:08:21Z
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@galdor I read much of this & found myself occasionally nodding in agreement, & appalled at the disgusting unacceptable treatment he's been subjected to. But I also had a feeling that something was off, which slowly grew as I kept reading. Then I got to this "two kinds of evil" quote and now I'm really concerned. This vague statement looks as if he's trying to call Ukraine evil too. After following the war closely since it started, that does not sit with me I'll tell you that much.
(DIR) Post #ASfateYbnFiSGjFzJQ by kensanata@octodon.social
2023-02-14T12:18:09Z
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@galdor 😭
(DIR) Post #ASfgvhv8rIQX0L9weW by mdhughes@appdot.net
2023-02-14T13:25:46Z
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@galdor Uh, I got to the point where Russian whiner murdered two girls and feels no remorse, stopped. Fuck that guy, how can I ream core-js out of my code?
(DIR) Post #ASg1f5wkNMUVdMpWSG by 22@octodon.social
2023-02-14T16:58:28Z
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@mdhughes “how can I remote core-js from my code”: stop using Babel or the thousands of npm packages that depend on it.Good luck. @galdor
(DIR) Post #ASg1f6ddnsnnmOtmJU by mdhughes@appdot.net
2023-02-14T17:00:53Z
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@22 @galdor Good news! I don't use babel, I just write actual JS. Seems like none of the few node libs I use rely on it.
(DIR) Post #ASg1f79Bua2VMFeyUS by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-14T17:18:03Z
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@mdhughes @22 Same here. The small amount of Javascript I wrote for Eventline and CSPWatch was pure JS passed to the Closure compiler.
(DIR) Post #ASgB8XQqAEHerc1KMa by 22@octodon.social
2023-02-14T19:04:10Z
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@galdor @mdhughes I checked and it looks like neither TypeScript compiler nor React/Redux use it either. Cool!(I’m a bit gloomy though, I don’t know as much as I should about older browser support so I’m not really sure what users I’m cutting out when not bothering with polyfills and instructing TypeScript to emit ES2019 output 😕.)
(DIR) Post #ASgF2vt8iqIMnEq7sm by galdor@emacs.ch
2023-02-14T19:48:03Z
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@22 @mdhughes You are worrying way too much. If someone wants to pay you to support older browsers, you can start thinking about doing it. If not, what's the problem?
(DIR) Post #ASgGSPR06idHcfOF3w by mdhughes@appdot.net
2023-02-14T20:03:51Z
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@galdor @22 It's fairly hard to run an older browser on a modern OS, they auto-update, and a lot of other systems will nag at you or break if they aren't updated.So for anything without a very restricted LTS audience, you can just assume everyone's in the last year's updates at worst, probably last month's.