Post ASe1QImVz7mqmU4QFs by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
(DIR) More posts by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
(DIR) Post #ASHRS0trR65Bwi0uUS by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-02-02T20:39:17.982060Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@sim @MK2boogaloo @TinyFern @VarnaNecropolis @bonifartius @cirnog @laurel @mikey @shedinja @renai @sim Classics Recitation, Exclusion Zone, and Barbeque Pit (Volume 1)The status quo and de facto sitting place of Classical discussion on this small corner of the internet.Feel free to post anything whatsoever classics related below.I'm going to kick it off by posting a bit from my own reading today.Ἀτρεΐδης δ᾽ ἕπετο σφεδανὸν Δαναοῖσι κελεύων.οἳ δὲ παρ᾽ Ἴλου σῆμα παλαιοῦ Δαρδανίδαομέσσον κὰπ πεδίον παρ᾽ ἐρινεὸν ἐσσεύοντοἱέμενοι πόλιος: ὃ δὲ κεκλήγων ἕπετ᾽ αἰεὶἈτρεΐδης, λύθρῳ δὲ παλάσσετο χεῖρας ἀάπτους.ἀλλ᾽ ὅτε δὴ Σκαιάς τε πύλας καὶ φηγὸν ἵκοντο,ἔνθ᾽ ἄρα δὴ ἵσταντο καὶ ἀλλήλους ἀνέμιμνον.οἳ δ᾽ ἔτι κὰμ μέσσον πεδίον φοβέοντο βόες ὥς,ἅς τε λέων ἐφόβησε μολὼν ἐν νυκτὸς ἀμολγῷπάσας: τῇ δέ τ᾽ ἰῇ ἀναφαίνεται αἰπὺς ὄλεθρος:τῆς δ᾽ ἐξ αὐχέν᾽ ἔαξε λαβὼν κρατεροῖσιν ὀδοῦσιπρῶτον, ἔπειτα δέ θ᾽ αἷμα καὶ ἔγκατα πάντα λαφύσσει:My own translation:And the son of Atreus followed violently, calling to the Danaans. And who beside the sign (grave) of the old son of Dardanus through the middle of the plain beside the fig tree were rushing, going before the city. And there continuously calling out shrilly, the son of Atreus, sprinkled his resistless hands with blood. But when to the Scaian gates and the oak tree they came, thereupon they stopped and awaited each other. And still they (the Trojans), down through the middle of the plain, were terrified as cows, which a lion put to flight rushing in the dead of night, all of them. And indeed to one appeared a dreadful destruction. And her (a cow) he shivered (broke) out her neck, having seized in his strong teeth first, and thereupon the blood and in the innards all he lapped up.This is a shorter example of a Homeric simile, which quite naturally Homer is famous for. These are longer similes usually used to draw direct comparison of the action of the combat to a natural or bucolic setting, very frequently where hunting or animal predation is driving force of the action. Lions are referenced very frequently. It's interesting to note that in the few hundred years leading up to the time of Homer's writing, that there were indeed species of lion, now extinct, still living in Greece, even as far south as the Peloponnese. Sometimes dogs or predatory birds are mentioned. Threshing floors get mentioned quite a bit. Ten years ago, when I first started reading this stuff, I had no idea what a threshing floor was. Much less what threshing was.__roma_aquila_and_giuseppe_garibaldi_kantai_collection_drawn_by_bitchcraft123__sample-27e50c60f0f8724ae35cef7416d0a0db.jpg
(DIR) Post #ASIkpaLntEZiqFzsXY by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-02-03T11:51:09.985432Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@MK2boogaloo @bonifartius @laurel @mikey @renai @sim Iliad book 11:221-247Poor IphidamasἸφιδάμας Ἀντηνορίδης ἠΰς τε μέγας τεὃς τράφη ἐν Θρῄκῃ ἐριβώλακι μητέρι μήλων:Κισσῆς τόν γ᾽ ἔθρεψε δόμοις ἔνι τυτθὸν ἐόνταμητροπάτωρ, ὃς τίκτε Θεανὼ καλλιπάρῃον:225αὐτὰρ ἐπεί ῥ᾽ ἥβης ἐρικυδέος ἵκετο μέτρον,αὐτοῦ μιν κατέρυκε, δίδου δ᾽ ὅ γε θυγατέρα ἥν:γήμας δ᾽ ἐκ θαλάμοιο μετὰ κλέος ἵκετ᾽ Ἀχαιῶνσὺν δυοκαίδεκα νηυσὶ κορωνίσιν, αἵ οἱ ἕποντο.τὰς μὲν ἔπειτ᾽ ἐν Περκώτῃ λίπε νῆας ἐΐσας,230αὐτὰρ ὃ πεζὸς ἐὼν ἐς Ἴλιον εἰληλούθει:ὅς ῥα τότ᾽ Ἀτρεΐδεω Ἀγαμέμνονος ἀντίον ἦλθεν.οἳ δ᾽ ὅτε δὴ σχεδὸν ἦσαν ἐπ᾽ ἀλλήλοισιν ἰόντες,Ἀτρεΐδης μὲν ἅμαρτε, παραὶ δέ οἱ ἐτράπετ᾽ ἔγχος,Ἰφιδάμας δὲ κατὰ ζώνην θώρηκος ἔνερθε235νύξ᾽, ἐπὶ δ᾽ αὐτὸς ἔρεισε βαρείῃ χειρὶ πιθήσας:οὐδ᾽ ἔτορε ζωστῆρα παναίολον, ἀλλὰ πολὺ πρὶνἀργύρῳ ἀντομένη μόλιβος ὣς ἐτράπετ᾽ αἰχμή.καὶ τό γε χειρὶ λαβὼν εὐρὺ κρείων Ἀγαμέμνωνἕλκ᾽ ἐπὶ οἷ μεμαὼς ὥς τε λίς, ἐκ δ᾽ ἄρα χειρὸς240σπάσσατο: τὸν δ᾽ ἄορι πλῆξ᾽ αὐχένα, λῦσε δὲ γυῖα.ὣς ὃ μὲν αὖθι πεσὼν κοιμήσατο χάλκεον ὕπνονοἰκτρὸς ἀπὸ μνηστῆς ἀλόχου, ἀστοῖσιν ἀρήγων,κουριδίης, ἧς οὔ τι χάριν ἴδε, πολλὰ δ᾽ ἔδωκε:πρῶθ᾽ ἑκατὸν βοῦς δῶκεν, ἔπειτα δὲ χίλι᾽ ὑπέστη245αἶγας ὁμοῦ καὶ ὄϊς, τά οἱ ἄσπετα ποιμαίνοντο.δὴ τότε γ᾽ Ἀτρεΐδης Ἀγαμέμνων ἐξενάριξε,βῆ δὲ φέρων ἀν᾽ ὅμιλον Ἀχαιῶν τεύχεα καλά.Much longer section, but a straightofrward read.Iphidamas, son of Antenor, both brave and strong, who was nourished in Thrace with large clods, mother of herds, him Cisseus reared being small in his home, the boy's mother's father, (the boy) who was borne by Theano with beautiful cheeks.But when he came of the measure of very famous youth, the old man restrained him, and gave him his daughter. And having married out from the inner chamber after the glory of the Achaians he went with 12 beaked ships, which followed with him.These thereupon in Percote he left, equal ships, but he went, being on foot, to Ilion. (This very man) who came opposite of Agamenon son of Atreus. And straightway they were near, coming close to each other, and the son of Atreus (threw his spear but) missed, and beside was turned his spear, but Iphidamas through the the belt of the cuirass from below pierced, and he learned upon him, trusting to his stout hand. But not did it tear the all-shining belt, but before the silver having come opposite, the point was turned as if lead.And taking this in hand, wide ruling Agamemnon took it out and upon him having been eager as a lion, and out from his hand he drew it, and him he struck neck with his hanger (sword), and loosed his limbs.So there having fallen, he fell into a bronze sleep, pitiable away from his wooed wife, having aided the citizens, a wedded man, of whom (his wife) not any joy did he know, but many things he gave.Formerly a hundred cows he gave, and thereupon a thousand goats he promise and likewise rams, these which to him countless were herded.Indeed then the son of Atreus Agamemnon despoiled (him) and he went bearing these beautiful arms up through the throng of the Achaians.Not much to say about this one. Poor Iphidamas.
(DIR) Post #ASVUA6Gxk47HTJPMsC by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-02-09T15:15:38.130454Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@MK2boogaloo @bonifartius @laurel @mikey @renai @sim Iliad Book 11 264-280αὐτὰρ ὃ τῶν ἄλλων ἐπεπωλεῖτο στίχας ἀνδρῶνἔγχεΐ τ᾽ ἄορί τε μεγάλοισί τε χερμαδίοισιν,ὄφρά οἱ αἷμ᾽ ἔτι θερμὸν ἀνήνοθεν ἐξ ὠτειλῆς.αὐτὰρ ἐπεὶ τὸ μὲν ἕλκος ἐτέρσετο, παύσατο δ᾽ αἷμα,ὀξεῖαι δ᾽ ὀδύναι δῦνον μένος Ἀτρεΐδαο.ὡς δ᾽ ὅτ᾽ ἂν ὠδίνουσαν ἔχῃ βέλος ὀξὺ γυναῖκαδριμύ, τό τε προϊεῖσι μογοστόκοι ΕἰλείθυιαιἭρης θυγατέρες πικρὰς ὠδῖνας ἔχουσαι,ὣς ὀξεῖ᾽ ὀδύναι δῦνον μένος Ἀτρεΐδαο.ἐς δίφρον δ᾽ ἀνόρουσε, καὶ ἡνιόχῳ ἐπέτελλενηυσὶν ἔπι γλαφυρῇσιν ἐλαυνέμεν: ἤχθετο γὰρ κῆρ.ἤϋσεν δὲ διαπρύσιον Δαναοῖσι γεγωνώς:‘ὦ φίλοι Ἀργείων ἡγήτορες ἠδὲ μέδοντεςὑμεῖς μὲν νῦν νηυσὶν ἀμύνετε ποντοπόροισιφύλοπιν ἀργαλέην, ἐπεὶ οὐκ ἐμὲ μητίετα Ζεὺςεἴασε Τρώεσσι πανημέριον πολεμίζειν.And he had ranged about the ranks of men other menwith his spear and his hanger and great boulderswhile his blood still warm ran from the wound.But when the wound had dried, and he the blood had stopped,Sharp pains sank the strength of Atreus's son.And as a sharp dart may have [strike] a woman in laborpiercing, and this the Eilithiyae birth-pangs send forthDaughters of Hera, these pointed pains having,so sharp pains stripped off the strength of Atreus's son.And to the chariot he rushed, and he entreated the reinholderupon the swift ships to drive; for his heart was sore.And he [Agamemnon] cried aloud shrilly and shouted to the Danaans"O Friends leaders and captains of the ArgivesYou now ward off from the sea-ranging shipsthe painful battle-din, when not me Councillor Zeushas permitted to battle with the Trojans all day.Eilithiyae was perhaps the stumbling block of this passage, being such an esoteric reference that I still don't recognize it. I suppose Hera's conceived of as having little spirits that bring the agonies of labor to women awaiting labor.Once again, while he has sufficient justification in context, you can see Agamemnon conceding his responsibilities to material necessity and human weakness. But it's this same small-mindedness that prevents him from fundamentally being the hero that his followers need. He's charismatic. He has the gift of the gab. He can even occasionally be exceedingly generous. But there's nothing self-sacrificing about the man.Homer's comparatively easy to directly translate into English. Horace is a bit of a nightmare.7eb716a7e3ff2564efb7c8692d9c857127f88cd51734e5f0aa3d06574af20172.jpg
(DIR) Post #ASe1QImVz7mqmU4QFs by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-02-13T18:06:01.196718Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@MK2boogaloo @bonifartius @laurel @mikey @renai Metamorphoses 7.475-489Turba ruit tantaeque virum cognoscere famaeexpetit. Occurrunt illi Telamonque, minorquequam Telamon Peleus, et proles tertia Phocus.Ipse quoque egreditur tardus gravitate seniliAeacus, et quae sit veniendi causa requirit.Admonitus patrii luctus suspirat et illidicta refert rector populorum talia centum:“Arma iuves oro pro gnato sumpta piaequepars sis militiae; tumulo solacia posco.”Huic Asopiades “petis inrita” dixit “et urbinon facienda meae: neque enim coniunctior ullaCecropidis hac est tellus: ea foedera nobis.”Tristis abit “stabunt” que “tibi tua foedera magno”dixit et utilius bellum putat esse minariquam gerere atque suas ibi praeconsumere vires.It's funny how badly the professional translation mangles this.At his approach an eager rabble rushedresolved to see and know so great a man.Telamon met him, and his brother,younger than Telamon, and Phocus whowas third in age. Even Aeacus appeared,slow with the weight of years, and asked him whatcould be a reason for his coming there.The ruler of a hundred cities, sighed,as he beheld the sons of Aeacus,for they reminded him of his lost son;—and heavy with his sorrow, he replied:“I come imploring you to take up arms,and aid me in the war against my foes;for I must give that comfort to the shadeof my misfortuned son—whose blood they shed.”But Aeacus replied to Minos, “Nay,it is a vain request you make, for weare bound in strict alliance to the landand people of Cecropia.”Full of rage,because he was denied, the king of Crete,Minos, as he departed from their shoresreplied, “Let such a treaty be your bane.”And he departed with his crafty threat,believing it expedient not to wastehis power in wars until the proper time.My translation looks more like this:The crowd ran and sought to know the man of such fame. And they ran together to him, Telamon and lesser than Telamon Peleus and the third shoot Phocus. And he himself also came out slowly with the heaviness of old age, Aeacus, and what may be the cause of the this coming he was inquiring. The reminding of paternal lamentation he [Minos] heaved in sigh, and to him such words he bore back, a leader of a hundred peoples:"I pray that by ready arms you may give aid for the sake of my child, and equally you may [provide] for dutiful military service; solaces from the burial mound I demand."To which the son of Asops, "You seek vainly," he replied "and to my city, not what is to be done, for neither is more connected any land than that of Cecrops to us by this alliance."Sad he left, "They will remain for you, your treaties, dearly" he said, and thought it more useful to make little of war than to wage [it] and to preconsume his powers there.The spoken language here is difficult to translate.37627895de01e0ddbf8476204493bfa834c0641430c3b5da79d80b1afc54bd54.png
(DIR) Post #ASg4Uxnu5wNpLYYQWe by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-02-14T17:49:54.003922Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@MK2boogaloo @bonifartius @laurel @mikey @renai Very short passage today. Happy Valentine's Today. Saint Valentine, among other things, was devoted to getting people married. Don't forget that you too can get married, cease being a degenerate, and be a sex-haver without--all without incurring the ire of heaven.Metamorphoses 7.523-527Dira lues ira populis Iunonis iniquaeincidit exosae dictas a paelice terras.Dum visum mortale malum tantaeque latebatcausa nocens cladis, pugnatum est arte medendi:exitium superabat opem, quae victa iacebat.My translation:The fearful unbound rage of unfavorable Juno against the peoplesCut away--[of Juno] hateful--the spoken lands from the concubine [is this referencing Juno?].While the evil lethal sight was lurking anda hurtful cause of such destruction, it has been fought with the art of healing;the destruction overcame our hope, which conquered cast away.Professional translation:“Because this island bears a rival's name,a deadly pestilence was visitedon my confiding people, through the rageof jealous Juno flaming for revenge.This great calamity at first appeareda natural disease—but soon its powerbaffled our utmost efforts. Medicinesavailing not, a reign of terror sweptfrom shore to shore and fearful havoc raged.I don't actually have any notes for this section in my possession that would explain how far my own literal translation differs from the professional's interpretation. I would even struggle to wonder where many of the translator's inclusions have come from. I wouldn't normally leave such a literal translation behind me, but I don't have any recourse. I just don't see how you get this from that.Nota bene:I wasn't asking.b8d4e0745e197792364ccc095d859134012ee0a0b70abbf364130deb1c3c6832.jpgFio_pyqVsAAY3Qb.jpg
(DIR) Post #ASk8hEqVjf6G7qipLU by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-02-16T16:55:47.031237Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@MK2boogaloo @bonifartius @laurel @mikey @renai Iliad 11.349-367Hector's Wicked Bad Head-Acheἦ ῥα, καὶ ἀμπεπαλὼν προΐει δολιχόσκιον ἔγχοςκαὶ βάλεν, οὐδ᾽ ἀφάμαρτε τιτυσκόμενος κεφαλῆφιν,ἄκρην κὰκ κόρυθα: πλάγχθη δ᾽ ἀπὸ χαλκόφι χαλκός,οὐδ᾽ ἵκετο χρόα καλόν: ἐρύκακε γὰρ τρυφάλειατρίπτυχος αὐλῶπις, τήν οἱ πόρε Φοῖβος Ἀπόλλων.Ἕκτωρ δ᾽ ὦκ᾽ ἀπέλεθρον ἀνέδραμε, μίκτο δ᾽ ὁμίλῳ,στῆ δὲ γνὺξ ἐριπὼν καὶ ἐρείσατο χειρὶ παχείῃγαίης: ἀμφὶ δὲ ὄσσε κελαινὴ νὺξ ἐκάλυψεν.ὄφρα δὲ Τυδεΐδης μετὰ δούρατος ᾤχετ᾽ ἐρωὴντῆλε διὰ προμάχων, ὅθι οἱ καταείσατο γαίηςτόφρ᾽ Ἕκτωρ ἔμπνυτο, καὶ ἂψ ἐς δίφρον ὀρούσαςἐξέλασ᾽ ἐς πληθύν, καὶ ἀλεύατο κῆρα μέλαιναν.δουρὶ δ᾽ ἐπαΐσσων προσέφη κρατερὸς Διομήδης:‘ἐξ αὖ νῦν ἔφυγες θάνατον κύον: ἦ τέ τοι ἄγχιἦλθε κακόν: νῦν αὖτέ σ᾽ ἐρύσατο Φοῖβος Ἀπόλλωνᾧ μέλλεις εὔχεσθαι ἰὼν ἐς δοῦπον ἀκόντων.ἦ θήν σ᾽ ἐξανύω γε καὶ ὕστερον ἀντιβολήσας,εἴ πού τις καὶ ἔμοιγε θεῶν ἐπιτάρροθός ἐστι.νῦν αὖ τοὺς ἄλλους ἐπιείσομαι, ὅν κε κιχείω.And straightway, poising to and fro, he launched the shadow-casting spearand struck, and not did he miss, making intent upon the head,and the high point of the crest, and it gonged with bronze upon bronzebut not did it reach the lovely flesh, for the helmet had held off,three-fold with a tubular crest, which gave to him [Hector] Phoebus Apollo.And Hector, immeasurably swift, ran up and mixed with the throng,and he stopped, falling down to the knee, and he supported himself on the earth on his heavy hand;and black darkness covered his two eyes.And as long did the son of Tydeus after the rush of his spear comefar off from the front lines, where it laid upon the earthSo long did Hector remain, heaving, and roused to the chariothe drove off through the throng and avoided dark death.And rushing with his spear spoke strong Diomedes:"Away now you have fled death, dog; indeed truly near to you evil came; but now again Phoebus Apollo has protected you,to whom you intend to pray, going to the resounding of spears.I say surely you I will finish when later having cast,If perhaps someone to me at least of the Gods is a helper.Now again the others I will fall upon, whomever I may encounter.No-one else gets these kinds of moments in the Iliad. It's a shame that Diomedes remains quasi-esoteric today.Fkq7ymraMAEov2g.jpeg
(DIR) Post #ASwe06GBJKJzTUipu4 by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-02-22T17:43:05.037299Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@MK2boogaloo @bonifartius @laurel @mikey @renai Metamorphoses 7.552-581Longer section here, but there's not really any serious translation issues. This section deals with an epidemic disease eradicating the people of Salamis. Surprisingly graphic and visceral.Pervenit ad miseros damno graviore colonospestis et in magnae dominatur moenibus urbis.Viscera torrentur primo, flammaeque latentisindicium rubor est et ductus anhelitus ingens.Aspera lingua tumet, tepidisque arentia ventisora patent, auraeque graves captantur hiatu.Non stratum, non ulla pati velamina possunt,dura sed in terra ponunt praecordia; nec fitcorpus humo gelidum, sed humus de corpore fervet.Nec moderator adest, inque ipsos saeva medenteserumpit clades, obsuntque auctoribus artes:quo propior quisque est servitque fidelius aegro,in partem leti citius venit. Utque salutisspes abiit finemque vident in funere morbi,indulgent animis et nulla, quid utile, cura est:utile enim nihil est. Passim positoque pudorefontibus et fluviis puteisque capacibus haerent,nec sitis est exstincta prius quam vita bibendo.Inde graves multi nequeunt consurgere et ipsisinmoriuntur aquis: aliquis tamen haurit et illas.Tantaque sunt miseris invisi taedia lecti:prosiliunt, aut si prohibent consistere vires,corpora devolvunt in humum: fugiuntque penatesquisque suos, sua cuique domus funesta videtur,et quia causa latet, locus est in crimine parvusSemianimes errare viis, dum stare valebant,adspiceres, flentes alios terraque iacenteslassaque versantes supremo lumina motu:membraque pendentis tendunt ad sidera caeli,hic illic, ubi mors deprenderat, exhalantes.It came to the miserable farmers with more determined weighta plague and in the walls of the great city it domineered.The inner organs at first flowed forth, and of hidden firethe sign was a reddening and the great leading of panting.Hopeless the tongue was swollen, and parched with warm windsthe mouths lay open, and the heavy air was taken with exhalation.Not layed out, not any sheets were able to help,but on the rough ground they put themselves half to death; and not would bethe body cold on the ground, but the ground from the body was fervid.There was nothing to moderate, and in to the healers themselvesbroke cruel destruction, and their arts hindered the artists;whoever closer to which should conduct themselves and more faithfully to the sick,in the lot of death more quickly came. And at the hope of salvationwent away and the end they saw in the ashes of death,their indulged their spirits and there was no, however useful, care;for there was nothing to do. And far and wide and with forgotten shameat the founts and the flowers, and the great wells they fixed themselves,and no thirst was extinguished as much as the life given over for drinking.And then heavy many were not able to rise and theythemselves died in the waters; and the same disease they fixed into the [waters].With so great an exhaustion the collected and unseen from calamitiesleapt forth, and if their powers should prohibit them to stand,their bodies melted into the earth; and they fled their household godswhoever theirs, for which cause the home was seen a funeral fire,and because the cause was hidden, the little place was held in crime,Half-dead to wander in the ways, and while they were able to stand,you could see, others crying and hurled onto the earthand exhausted with the motion having turned their eyes to the highest;and their limbs they raised to the stars of the hanging sky,here and there, where death had taken them, breathing out their last.Goodness. I feel sick. You can't have a more intimate connection with a text.bruegel.jpg
(DIR) Post #AT91TRkJ8R1dLvIMCW by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-02-28T17:02:38.323414Z
4 likes, 1 repeats
@MK2boogaloo @bonifartius @laurel @mikey @renai Iliad 11.472-488ὣς εἰπὼν ὃ μὲν ἦρχ᾽, ὃ δ᾽ ἅμ᾽ ἕσπετο ἰσόθεος φώς.εὗρον ἔπειτ᾽ Ὀδυσῆα Διῒ φίλον: ἀμφὶ δ᾽ ἄρ᾽ αὐτὸνΤρῶες ἕπονθ᾽ ὡς εἴ τε δαφοινοὶ θῶες ὄρεσφινἀμφ᾽ ἔλαφον κεραὸν βεβλημένον, ὅν τ᾽ ἔβαλ᾽ ἀνὴρἰῷ ἀπὸ νευρῆς: τὸν μέν τ᾽ ἤλυξε πόδεσσιφεύγων, ὄφρ᾽ αἷμα λιαρὸν καὶ γούνατ᾽ ὀρώρῃ:αὐτὰρ ἐπεὶ δὴ τόν γε δαμάσσεται ὠκὺς ὀϊστός,ὠμοφάγοι μιν θῶες ἐν οὔρεσι δαρδάπτουσινἐν νέμεϊ σκιερῷ: ἐπί τε λῖν ἤγαγε δαίμωνσίντην: θῶες μέν τε διέτρεσαν, αὐτὰρ ὃ δάπτει:ὥς ῥα τότ᾽ ἀμφ᾽ Ὀδυσῆα δαΐφρονα ποικιλομήτηνΤρῶες ἕπον πολλοί τε καὶ ἄλκιμοι, αὐτὰρ ὅ γ᾽ ἥρωςἀΐσσων ᾧ ἔγχει ἀμύνετο νηλεὲς ἦμαρ.Αἴας δ᾽ ἐγγύθεν ἦλθε φέρων σάκος ἠΰτε πύργον,στῆ δὲ παρέξ: Τρῶες δὲ διέτρεσαν ἄλλυδις ἄλλος.ἤτοι τὸν Μενέλαος ἀρήϊος ἔξαγ᾽ ὁμίλουχειρὸς ἔχων, εἷος θεράπων σχεδὸν ἤλασεν ἵππους.So having spoken he led (the way), and he followed with him, the godlike man,And they found thereupon Odysseus beloved to Zeus; and about himthe Trojans followed, as if tawny jackals from the mountainslaunching about a horned deer, whom a man struckwith an arrow from the bow-string; and him shunning on his feet,having fled, as long as the blood is luke-warm and the knees may rise;but when indeed has overpowered him the swift arrow,flesh eating the jackals in the mountain dine upon his fleshin a shady glade; and upon a spirit leads a lionravenous, and the jackals flee in all directions, but he (the lion) takes his meal;so then indeed about warlike Odysseus, of many wilesThe Trojans followed, many and strong, but the heroRushing upon him with his spear, warded off the pitiless day.And Ajax came near, bearing a shield as a city wall,And he stood before; and the Trojans were turned in flight one to the other.And indeed warlike Menelaus led him out from the throngholding his hand, and his servant near drove up the horses.This and the next few sections are going to show the major fighters of the Achaians giving way, in sequence, before the assail of the Trojans until finally the Achaians are forced to rely upon their minor heroes. Ajax will make several noteworthy appearances in this next section, eventually forced to retreat under the force of their attack, but conspicuously he is unwounded, in spite of the fact that he never receives any direct aid from heaven.Ajax was perhaps for the longest time my favorite character out of this epic. He hearkens back in many respects to the mythological age of this mythopoetic culture. But the his time and that of those like him is past. Ajax is pure and uncomplicated. Reminds me of the likes of Pellinore.sample_b99b39c76d11c72e6b1836547361392a.jpg
(DIR) Post #ATZmrmWHyWZOui3hLM by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-03-13T14:56:09.961712Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@MK2boogaloo @bonifartius @laurel @mikey @renai Longer section today, but a friend expressed some interest in it a while ago...Iliad 11.531-574Ajax.ὣς ἄρα φωνήσας ἵμασεν καλλίτριχας ἵππουςμάστιγι λιγυρῇ: τοὶ δὲ πληγῆς ἀΐοντεςῥίμφ᾽ ἔφερον θοὸν ἅρμα μετὰ Τρῶας καὶ Ἀχαιοὺςστείβοντες νέκυάς τε καὶ ἀσπίδας: αἵματι δ᾽ ἄξωννέρθεν ἅπας πεπάλακτο καὶ ἄντυγες αἳ περὶ δίφρον,ἃς ἄρ᾽ ἀφ᾽ ἱππείων ὁπλέων ῥαθάμιγγες ἔβαλλοναἵ τ᾽ ἀπ᾽ ἐπισσώτρων. ὃ δὲ ἵετο δῦναι ὅμιλονἀνδρόμεον ῥῆξαί τε μετάλμενος: ἐν δὲ κυδοιμὸνἧκε κακὸν Δαναοῖσι, μίνυνθα δὲ χάζετο δουρός.αὐτὰρ ὃ τῶν ἄλλων ἐπεπωλεῖτο στίχας ἀνδρῶνἔγχεΐ τ᾽ ἄορί τε μεγάλοισί τε χερμαδίοισιν,Αἴαντος δ᾽ ἀλέεινε μάχην Τελαμωνιάδαο.So having spoken he (Hector) flogged the beautifully maned horseswith a shrill whip, and they having perceived the strikingeasily bore up the swift chariot after the Trojans and Achaianscrushing corpses and shields, and with blood the axlefrom above was all sprinkled and rims and the chariot-board,which the drops from the hooves of horses struck uponand from the tires. And he leapt eagferlydesiring to shatter the human hoard; and in he borean evil din towards the Danaans, and for a short time they retired before his spear.But he ranged among the lines of other menwith his spear and his hanger and great stones,But he eschewed battle with Ajax son of Telamon.Ζεὺς δὲ πατὴρ Αἴανθ᾽ ὑψίζυγος ἐν φόβον ὦρσε:στῆ δὲ ταφών, ὄπιθεν δὲ σάκος βάλεν ἑπταβόειον,τρέσσε δὲ παπτήνας ἐφ᾽ ὁμίλου θηρὶ ἐοικὼςἐντροπαλιζόμενος ὀλίγον γόνυ γουνὸς ἀμείβων.ὡς δ᾽ αἴθωνα λέοντα βοῶν ἀπὸ μεσσαύλοιοἐσσεύαντο κύνες τε καὶ ἀνέρες ἀγροιῶται,οἵ τέ μιν οὐκ εἰῶσι βοῶν ἐκ πῖαρ ἑλέσθαιπάννυχοι ἐγρήσσοντες: ὃ δὲ κρειῶν ἐρατίζωνἰθύει, ἀλλ᾽ οὔ τι πρήσσει: θαμέες γὰρ ἄκοντεςἀντίον ἀΐσσουσι θρασειάων ἀπὸ χειρῶνκαιόμεναί τε δεταί, τάς τε τρεῖ ἐσσύμενός περ:ἠῶθεν δ᾽ ἀπὸ νόσφιν ἔβη τετιηότι θυμῷ:ὣς Αἴας τότ᾽ ἀπὸ Τρώων τετιημένος ἦτορἤϊε πόλλ᾽ ἀέκων: περὶ γὰρ δίε νηυσὶν Ἀχαιῶν.ὡς δ᾽ ὅτ᾽ ὄνος παρ᾽ ἄρουραν ἰὼν ἐβιήσατο παῖδαςνωθής, ᾧ δὴ πολλὰ περὶ ῥόπαλ᾽ ἀμφὶς ἐάγῃ,κείρει τ᾽ εἰσελθὼν βαθὺ λήϊον: οἳ δέ τε παῖδεςτύπτουσιν ῥοπάλοισι: βίη δέ τε νηπίη αὐτῶν:σπουδῇ τ᾽ ἐξήλασσαν, ἐπεί τ᾽ ἐκορέσσατο φορβῆς:ὣς τότ᾽ ἔπειτ᾽ Αἴαντα μέγαν Τελαμώνιον υἱὸνΤρῶες ὑπέρθυμοι πολυηγερέες τ᾽ ἐπίκουροινύσσοντες ξυστοῖσι μέσον σάκος αἰὲν ἕποντο.Αἴας δ᾽ ἄλλοτε μὲν μνησάσκετο θούριδος ἀλκῆςαὖτις ὑποστρεφθείς, καὶ ἐρητύσασκε φάλαγγαςΤρώων ἱπποδάμων: ὁτὲ δὲ τρωπάσκετο φεύγειν.πάντας δὲ προέεργε θοὰς ἐπὶ νῆας ὁδεύειν,αὐτὸς δὲ Τρώων καὶ Ἀχαιῶν θῦνε μεσηγὺἱστάμενος: τὰ δὲ δοῦρα θρασειάων ἀπὸ χειρῶνἄλλα μὲν ἐν σάκεϊ μεγάλῳ πάγεν ὄρμενα πρόσσω,πολλὰ δὲ καὶ μεσσηγύ, πάρος χρόα λευκὸν ἐπαυρεῖν,ἐν γαίῃ ἵσταντο λιλαιόμενα χροὸς ἆσαι.And father Zeus sitting high on the benches roused Ajax in panic flightand he stood astonished, and upon his back he cast his seven-fold shieldAnd fled in fear, searching about this way and that through the throng, like to a beastoften turning around exchanging knee for knee.And as a fiery lion from outside the inner court of cattlethe hounds rush into motion and the country men,Who him do not suffer to take the fat of the cattleall night and wakened, and he greedy after the fleshrushes onwards, but not in any way does he pass through, for the spears are thickOpposite they dart from bold hands,burning torches, and although impetuous he flees theseand with the dawn far off he has gone with sorrowful heart;So Ajax then from the Trojans, sorrowful at heart,went much unwillingly; for he as at flight for the ships of the Achaians.And as when an ass goign through the field may force the children,although lazy, whom beating viciously they make to shiver with cudgels,He plunders having entered into the deep crop; and the boysstrike with cudgels, but the strength is infant-like of them;with haste they drive him out, and when he has had his fill of the pasture;so then therewith great Ajax the son of Telamonthe overweening Trojans numerously assembled and their alliesstrike with spears the middle of his shield and always follow.And Ajax at some other time would have remembered his raging stregnthBut having been turned about, he nevertheless restrained the phalanxesof horse-taming Trojans; even when he turned himself about to flee.And upon all the swift ships he stopped them from making way,And he himself rushed along in the middle of the Trojans and AchaiansHaving stopped; and these spears from bold handssome sprinkled, roused forward, upon the great shieldand many others between, which would have found his white flesh,in the ground were stuck, longing to satiate of his skin.It's your boy, Telamonian Ajax
(DIR) Post #ATbr0u3i6Qoz2DDSXg by kakkerel@freespeechextremist.com
2023-03-14T14:52:03.489105Z
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@MK2boogaloo @bonifartius @laurel @mikey @renai Iliad 11.596-615The beginnings of tragic consequence.ὣς οἳ μὲν μάρναντο δέμας πυρὸς αἰθομένοιο:Νέστορα δ᾽ ἐκ πολέμοιο φέρον Νηλήϊαι ἵπποιἱδρῶσαι, ἦγον δὲ Μαχάονα ποιμένα λαῶν.τὸν δὲ ἰδὼν ἐνόησε ποδάρκης δῖος Ἀχιλλεύς:ἑστήκει γὰρ ἐπὶ πρυμνῇ μεγακήτεϊ νηῒεἰσορόων πόνον αἰπὺν ἰῶκά τε δακρυόεσσαν.αἶψα δ᾽ ἑταῖρον ἑὸν Πατροκλῆα προσέειπεφθεγξάμενος παρὰ νηός: ὃ δὲ κλισίηθεν ἀκούσαςἔκμολεν ἶσος Ἄρηϊ, κακοῦ δ᾽ ἄρα οἱ πέλεν ἀρχή.τὸν πρότερος προσέειπε Μενοιτίου ἄλκιμος υἱός:‘τίπτέ με κικλήσκεις Ἀχιλεῦ; τί δέ σε χρεὼ ἐμεῖο;’ τὸν δ᾽ ἀπαμειβόμενος προσέφη πόδας ὠκὺς Ἀχιλλεύς:‘δῖε Μενοιτιάδη τῷ ἐμῷ κεχαρισμένε θυμῷνῦν ὀΐω περὶ γούνατ᾽ ἐμὰ στήσεσθαι Ἀχαιοὺςλισσομένους: χρειὼ γὰρ ἱκάνεται οὐκέτ᾽ ἀνεκτός.ἀλλ᾽ ἴθι νῦν Πάτροκλε Διῒ φίλε Νέστορ᾽ ἔρειοὅν τινα τοῦτον ἄγει βεβλημένον ἐκ πολέμοιο:ἤτοι μὲν τά γ᾽ ὄπισθε Μαχάονι πάντα ἔοικετῷ Ἀσκληπιάδῃ, ἀτὰρ οὐκ ἴδον ὄμματα φωτός:ἵπποι γάρ με παρήϊξαν πρόσσω μεμαυῖαι.So they warred in form like to a burning fire;And Nestor from the way the horses of Neleus boreSweating, and they led also Machaon, shepherd of the people.And he recognized him, swift-footed Achilles;For he stood upon the prow of the yawning shipLooking upon the dreadful destruction and tearful pursuit.And straightway he addressed his companion Patroclussounding beside the ship; and he from the side of the camp having heardequal-to-Ares went forth, and this was the beginning of evil for him.First addressed him (Achilles) the strong son (Patroclus) of Menoitius:"Why me, did you call, Achilles? What is the need of me?"And to him replying addressed swift-footed Achilles:"Heavenly son of Menoitius, delight of my heart,Now I think about my knees to clasp the Achaianspraying; for necessity has come no longer bearable.But come now Patroclus, ask beloved to Zeus--Nestor--whomever he leads wounded from war;For indeed back he in all ways seems like to Machaonthe son of Asklepius, but not do I see the the eyes of the man;For the horses have darted past me eagerly onward.Fl28nS2agAEnEer.jpeg