Post ASMtDz0HSWxuW6ujsO by nohillside@smnn.ch
(DIR) More posts by nohillside@smnn.ch
(DIR) Post #ASFZPoCc5KKHIrKCCu by freemo@qoto.org
2023-02-01T22:59:02Z
0 likes, 3 repeats
The idea that bad people having a voice on social media causes other people to become bad people (often the argument as to why we must defederate from bad servers) is equivalent to:Thinking violent video games cause people to become violent.Thinking explicit song lyrics cause people to become criminalsAllowing people to be openly homosexual will cause others to become homosexualBanning books
(DIR) Post #ASFb5COd8aeGAMFIrw by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:17:46Z
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@freemo Being exposed to ideas can do harm. Examples: people purporting to be leftist indulging in war propaganda. Happening right now in germany - they want war. So, what is the distinguishing criteria, what do we need to stop? I guess stopping the bad people is out, they do have figured it out enough to have sway. Not accepting calls to hate might be an idea?
(DIR) Post #ASFbFfddGtGzkpFwrA by freemo@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:19:37Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@admitsWrongIfProven You havent actually made the case that being exposed to ideas can do harm. Your example is a bad idea, sure, but you havent made the case that it was exposure to the idea that is the cause rather than the predisposition of the people to draw such conclusions on their own. It is very likely such ideas would largely have developed independently of exposure.
(DIR) Post #ASFcyE4Iipm7EWXWZE by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:38:54Z
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@freemo I might not have made the case, but if you want to, i can. People are not in themselfs bad. We see no evidence people, as a whole, are hurting others. But we can see that there is some sway to hurt. While people generally are clueless (i hold this as self-evident, source: look outside), herd behaviour can be observed in the wild. The obvious threat right now is humanity extinguishing itself by climate collapse. No matter, people are engaging in any other matter they can, distracting themselfs. So it might be helpful to not use any more resources than needed. But this is not the case, everything continues as normal. The menance i talk about is sowing the seeds of hostility: right now, ukraine against russia ist the big topic. There was no mention of nato hostility, there is no acknowledgement of anything the western countries might have done - a pure conviction that the enemy is bad, and that we are good. So, if we had done everything right, would the climate collapse not be a thing of the "enemy" nations? The constant nagging of our own propaganda organs is clouding our view. Being exposed to ideas can hurt, and upon us lays the burden to push back there and still reject the pushback (earned, but not helpful) of those "enemy" nations. People suck.
(DIR) Post #ASFdChaDmdI2pHNBM8 by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:41:31Z
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@freemo You know what kind of idea i mean. There are different kinds.
(DIR) Post #ASFdJynGC6hEEJwSnI by freemo@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:42:48Z
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@admitsWrongIfProven I do not think people are born bad, but I also dont think ideas turn people bad.. Actions and how people are treated do, combined with poor or biased reasoning skills about how they integrate these expiernces.Most racist people, for example, seem to be racist from a young age, in which case it is done in an attempt to be accepted by their family, usually parents. When I see a person become racist later in life it is usually because of negative experiences they had or witnessed. What ive never seen is a person who was decidingly not racist go "Hey ya know what, bill told me black people are violent, I am going to hate black people now"
(DIR) Post #ASFdcJxsDdlt6UeUgy by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:46:09Z
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@freemo Uh yeah, mean stuff comes from mean people around while you're still impressionable, that much is clear. What i mean to say here is that ideas from varied sources are not bad, ideas that are blasted on you time and time again by people controlling the narrative are bad. Like, imagine if some very few people owned all the news outlets, they could do horrible things. Could they not?
(DIR) Post #ASFdndzE7PyCNygUGO by freemo@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:48:11Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@admitsWrongIfProven the issue you are talking about though isnt "bad people being seen causes bad people"... what you are describing is engineering the information in its totality or near totality. Controlling the narrative, preventing the ability to get accurate information. Thats a different problem but we agree is problematic.
(DIR) Post #ASFeABpIz0hVi2nItE by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:52:16Z
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@freemo You are right... i thought about what i perceive as the biggest threat, and you did actually talk about something else. The thing you mocked, we agree the people pushing that narrative are annoying and irrelevant to reasonable discourse. It both makes me happy and frightened that you understood what i meant.
(DIR) Post #ASFeIQr4zUkOdWYR6G by freemo@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:53:45Z
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@admitsWrongIfProven People on the internet are too eager to disagree... I find if you try to listen people agree more often than they realize.
(DIR) Post #ASFeiwhhCW4qwUo9ia by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:58:33Z
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@freemo Except those that want total war. Had to issue my first block because of this - some really do want war. Frightening. Anyway, some music and off to bed, sleep well and may you experience peace. You and those that want war. I want peace even for those that hate. The narrative that ideas are bad... don't concern yourself too much. If you acknowledge it, they win. Subvert, don't accept.
(DIR) Post #ASFeon3A0SLCjtdPQu by freemo@qoto.org
2023-02-01T23:59:35Z
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@admitsWrongIfProven Sleep well, good chatting
(DIR) Post #ASFjH4DiA3X5utJCTo by voidabyss@qoto.org
2023-02-02T00:49:33Z
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@freemo "Bad people" can be a very subjective term nowadays,If you mean criminals, criminal apologists or rallying for criminal acts that should be heavily banned. A-holes/trolls, two categories: the casual ones and the professional ones (troll farm, spam, ddros, etc.), depending on the moderation there should be some tolerance for the former and limiting/banning the latter. Finally, most people have a predisposition to certain ideas and information(bad ones included), finding communities online to share and expend on those is only natural. Being exposed to new ideas and information to challenge our belief is also very important, that's why I am against defederation and banning certain topics, because that leads to echo chambers and radicalization. Although being exposed to highly additive dopamine media and targeted engagement algorithms can be extremely harmful, that's sadly the case for most mainstream social media.
(DIR) Post #ASFjYXoLOdKqc7mFRA by freemo@qoto.org
2023-02-02T00:52:41Z
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@voidabyss There are plenty of good reasons you might want to ban someone. The issue here is not that im against banning for any reason. the issue is the argument claiming that being able to see bad people will make you a bad person. You can ban a person or server just for being annoying, wasting time, flooding posts, etc.
(DIR) Post #ASFlQDbYq2aRXMxJEe by voidabyss@qoto.org
2023-02-02T01:13:37Z
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@freemo > the issue is the argument claiming that being able to see bad people will make you a bad personThat would depend on the level of interaction and exposure, most people are highly influenced/conformed by the community that they interact with IRL or online and the media that they consume. I am pretty sure that there were a lot of good people in Germany during the NAZI regime, but their influence, propaganda and censorship turned many good people bad.
(DIR) Post #ASFyvXof2fSKbQLo7k by Romaq@qoto.org
2023-02-02T03:44:57Z
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@freemo I'm naughty for listening to ac/dc. I know it's only rock & roll, but I like it.
(DIR) Post #ASMtDz0HSWxuW6ujsO by nohillside@smnn.ch
2023-02-05T11:43:58Z
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@freemo @CerstinMahlow Not really… Most video games don‘t actively promote real life violence as a means to solve problems. OTOH „bad“ people on social media promote bad ways to solve problems, and/or promote hate and violence.
(DIR) Post #ASMuL9eGNcnnVqbDWK by freemo@qoto.org
2023-02-05T11:56:28Z
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@nohillside Not sure I agree, The vast majority of video games seem to actively promote violence to solve their problems. And many set in real life settings (like grand theft auto) actively promote it against real life every day people.@CerstinMahlow
(DIR) Post #ASNYBRvvXSjdUcmwiG by nohillside@smnn.ch
2023-02-05T19:22:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @CerstinMahlow Even then, having a video game where shooting people is on vs having a social media account which argues that climate change is a fake scheme to suppress people have different effects.