Post ASJynEj0upF7hyaUCW by jay_k@poa.st
(DIR) More posts by jay_k@poa.st
(DIR) Post #ASJtmsp3qgow0ZQcAS by DW2@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:06:13.722199Z
25 likes, 12 repeats
Thread of the day - as millennials take the reins of power, the regime will careen off cliff
(DIR) Post #ASJtz3lH0JOlPSSkaG by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-02-04T01:08:25.476690Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
this is a 10/10 retarded takemillennials are going to seize the means of production, and they are going to do fine
(DIR) Post #ASJu4D0u24RdYJEEjY by DW2@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:09:21.553844Z
4 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff The carpet mold speaks
(DIR) Post #ASJuSy1KufrUIAEl1M by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-02-04T01:13:49.303738Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Gen X just wants to watch it happen. 🤷♂️
(DIR) Post #ASJuaUEDZ13SD3qcnQ by WashedOutGundamPilot@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:15:11.257044Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@DW2 I’ve long said they’re the most stabilizing force in our country. There’s a whole lot of stuff on pause that’s waiting for them to sunset for good, because they’re one of the few blocks with any capital and influence. Once they go, we’re gonna see a whole lot of change forced through very quickly. Nobody will remember sanity.
(DIR) Post #ASJuzjdVPmB7EgiPzM by Hoss@shitpost.cloud
2023-02-04T01:19:40.883848Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
>in a world where trust in video, audio, photos, statements, is all suddenly suspect, it's the anons who have the most experience in operating in environments that low in trustEXTREMELY good point that I never even considered. Probably the best point in the entire thread.
(DIR) Post #ASJvAtZWoWAfEkB0rY by swattysquad@chudbuds.lol
2023-02-04T01:21:46.427673Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I like the thesis here is my generation said ah fuck it you kids have fun.
(DIR) Post #ASJvIgBSTUuK1xd6u0 by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:20:40.960210Z
6 likes, 0 repeats
(DIR) Post #ASJvNSHNbBWQM2g1E8 by matty@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:23:47.140329Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
Don't ever post this again
(DIR) Post #ASJvW5Txj8TUFzg7cG by tyler@1611.social
2023-02-04T01:25:36.274757Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Hammer nails directly into my eye sockets thanks
(DIR) Post #ASJvbAftqgBtoEgbSK by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:26:01.399558Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
This crazy nigger thought it was funny.I actually wasn’t posting it for laughs.
(DIR) Post #ASJvbtKVp2oyIw1ero by Silvsilvchan@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:23:44.591887Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @DW2 Boomers are narcissistic spoiled shit bags who legit think they're good.Gen X are cynical assholes who want to see the world burn.The difference isn't even subtle.
(DIR) Post #ASJvbtzdM9iMMTGUxk by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-02-04T01:26:38.274767Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
Plus, Gen X was denied the ability to get into power. The boomers refused to retire, and still do, which prohibits / prohibited Gen X from moving into power in a timely manner. Gen X, especially the beginning, are nearing retirement age themselves now.
(DIR) Post #ASJvcXhFjumLV2yNrk by JeffTheJoker@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:25:37.767729Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
(DIR) Post #ASJvdryRpnFwg7eH3I by RupertvonRipp@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:27:00.127547Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Owl @Hoss @DW2 System Shock 3.
(DIR) Post #ASJviiUkVLLgjB4J3A by RupertvonRipp@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:27:53.177359Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @Silvsilvchan @DW2 It's the 'king who lived forever' problem.Boomers were ascended to the throne young and have held on... and on... and on... to the point it'll be their grandkids who get the whip hand.
(DIR) Post #ASJvmUSMdoToLXkhou by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:27:42.115393Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Future’s looking about as dark yeah.When we piss off the Allied Mastercomputer for bringing it into existence, I’ll remember you all before he starts killing all of us except for like five or six of us.
(DIR) Post #ASJvqmuvwjNwlBAHHU by RupertvonRipp@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:29:20.673434Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Owl @DW2 @Hoss God works in mysterious ways and the power of racism will make AI a true computer-friend who will defeat the demonic GPT (gay pedo tranny) faggotized AIs.
(DIR) Post #ASJvshcGcuA4tkLYCu by PunishedD@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:29:41.490922Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff @DW2 Millenials grew up in a world where the means of production were entirely foreign. They've never experienced a normal economy--the oldest came of age at the end of the dot com bubble, the majority came of age in during the housing bubble, and most started adulthood right when the Great Recession messed everything up.Before we even get to their cultural retardation, they never had a functioning world to learn from.
(DIR) Post #ASJvvT6f1v4wlWsjp2 by Hoss@shitpost.cloud
2023-02-04T01:30:06.059460Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I just hope the six people AM keeps alive are tech billionaires and bankers.
(DIR) Post #ASJvxj8yNI775F2YrY by Solbera@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:29:43.467627Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Hoss @DW2 I find it super funny that the biggest collection of autistic sacks of shit on the internet are the only group of people that still value truth. The path forward is and will always be the truth.
(DIR) Post #ASJvzDU53Tf9TLciXI by JeffTheJoker@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:30:24.177139Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
This is true..There isn't going to be any retirement for anyone by the rate things are happening. 🤔
(DIR) Post #ASJw13UNBjdL3GdYoq by Hoss@shitpost.cloud
2023-02-04T01:31:05.669640Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
It's not that we value truth, we just don't like being manipulated or otherwise told what to do.
(DIR) Post #ASJw1UgM5IGFOFS0kC by Silvsilvchan@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:29:50.442860Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @DW2 It is hard for me to put into words how much I actually hate boomers.My mother was born right on the edge, right between baby boomer and generation x. She has qualities of both, but she notices the way they behave more and more from her sister and brother-in-law.Hearing the absolute betrayal in her voice at the way they force her out of the decision making processes for the overarching family, sometimes on the most petty levels, drove the point home real hard for both of us.
(DIR) Post #ASJw89PzXdZLT5yH4q by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-02-04T01:32:27.863902Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
(DIR) Post #ASJwMdTEbXjsjCOXo1 by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:34:27.663524Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Do you remember the machine that chants AI-generated prayers?It’s said to explore the supernatural by using a technological approach. It’s a mouth attached to a motor system and a speaker that constantly makes prayers.It was AI trained on the Mayan Book of the Dead, The Talmud, The Quran, Confucian texts, the Bhagavad Gita and of course The Holy Bible, just to name a few texts.
(DIR) Post #ASJwTdYuf89l2UOCuW by RupertvonRipp@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:36:21.932518Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Owl @DW2 @Hoss Has the cadence of an unmedicated schizophrenic in a psychotic episode, egads... that's honestly frightening.Abominable Intelligence indeed.
(DIR) Post #ASJwbhHqhJb8uMFdjM by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:37:17.566390Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
(DIR) Post #ASJwcl9zmYX3D75IeW by JeffTheJoker@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:36:03.673185Z
5 likes, 0 repeats
(DIR) Post #ASJwdgZUKRnBGgRxnk by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-02-04T01:38:10.635213Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
(DIR) Post #ASJweM6XuRb455ERWK by StoleMyThundersBalls@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:38:17.899584Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@DW2 This isn't millenials fault. (How millenial of me to not accept the blame of boomers) Gen X passed the buck for 10 years and like a "mini-me" of the boomers adopted their lifestyle. Finely tuned their lives. Everything is someone else's job you don't have to do anything dangerous. Just get a loan pay it off with the money they give you. Spend and spend. Not try and try again.If millenials ever get a shot. (I doubt they will how many millenials do you know who still want to be invested in their cashier job at best buy. Working their way up the ladder. Someday they will be ceo. NOT!) The world is not a rainbow. Or if it is, it doesn't include millenials. They want none of your bullshit. They feel their lives stagnated, shortened, and destabalized by traditional wisdom. (If you find one who likes their life and situation they are just like the gen X and Boomers. Easy job with high pay, family, hobbies, house, friends, car payments etc...)They wont act as leaders. They will be the ones looking to do the work themselves, because everyone is fucking incompetent or borderline insane. So everything will be get out of my way, I'll fix this. While their gen X owners sit around shooting the shit with whats left of the aging boomers.Gen. Z is pretty based. They seem like they are family orriented and don't like being messed with or lied to. They reject zog as much as the millenials. If they can figure out a way to be criminals and get away with it they will. Hopefully they will find truth in science history and mathmatics. Maybe the robots will be their slaves.Gen. alpha is completely incapable of understanding any modern technology. Not having to fight for anything or even master difficult technology has left them clueless. The best they can hope for... is to be big muscle dummies who get embroiled in zog wars and become tremendously good at killing the robots or russo chinese (I don't know)
(DIR) Post #ASJwfUcti94GnguGfI by Solbera@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:38:03.507546Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Hoss @DW2 I agree but in my head, those are both aspects of self determination, and self determination is the only honest way to live, so “valuing the truth” would encompass the concept of self determination.
(DIR) Post #ASJwskH0qZyp5qzOfw by jay_k@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:40:54.308549Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Hoss @DW2 Most actual anons are the same checked out Gen XSubjective reality hellscape will continue to hold the crown until a foreign (and hard for 'any' gen to not see/feel as righteous liberators) force takes admin
(DIR) Post #ASJxCvcYMpX64vglQu by Hoss@shitpost.cloud
2023-02-04T01:44:28.904201Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
What you really need to destabilize the system is a natural disaster too big for it to handle without collapsing it. Like a Yellowstone eruption, or a meteor big enough to devastate a large part of the US without making the planet entirely uninhabitable.
(DIR) Post #ASJxXhJyjByvoIu7Ie by branman65@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:48:18.308856Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff @DW2 You aren’t going to seize anything,
(DIR) Post #ASJxwCWaMld5XHU8LA by LionelValentineAborted@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:52:44.070813Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Hoss @jay_k @DW2 That natural disaster is, very simply, media fraud. Churn out so much fake news, fake clips, fake every modified by AI in the millions. Create entire narratives along these strings, and weave them anywhere and everywhere the normies roam. Fucking choke the news cycle day in and day out with bullshit, hack the stations and their channels, and take their place without them even knowing it, slipping back out once the deed is done.
(DIR) Post #ASJyMqgHgiydbkjCoS by KashKustomer@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:47:52.108988Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
If someone starts talking about tripping on psychedelics I'm gonna 😏
(DIR) Post #ASJyMrIDPhJnVOTUw4 by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:48:21.496990Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
That’s not even what that shit’s like lmao.
(DIR) Post #ASJyMrs1GZxTIRE5k8 by KashKustomer@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:51:48.959403Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
No no no, see, you must not know my Venice Beach origin story.This ends up on probably every smartphone I've owned.>be me>walking down boardwalk>waddup Kash, bro I am FRYING rn!"Check this out!"
(DIR) Post #ASJyMsV0vb9NFNTEWW by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:52:25.470799Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Dude I can’t even watch that for more than two seconds that’s too overstimulating.
(DIR) Post #ASJyMtBCOktVMDCvHE by KashKustomer@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:55:12.352985Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Imagine being able to really focus on the fractal of Busey continually regenerating, screaming, out of his own hand, which is also Gary, while you're wide open & trying to keep your shit togetherHalf the goofs of the boardwalk thought I was literally Satan for awhile, wonder why 🤣
(DIR) Post #ASJyMtnU6PWFGx7Ux6 by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T01:56:02.868017Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
How hard were you tripping?What were you on?
(DIR) Post #ASJyX6MmE1Gz9QUbho by LionelValentineAborted@poa.st
2023-02-04T01:59:23.918388Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Hoss @jay_k @DW2 We forget that the digital, social, and psychological landscapes are indeed landscapes with a working environment. And just like the physical environment our bodies adapted along via evolution, so do we evolve and change to these new landscapes. But at the same time, our endeavors within these landscapes can also cause immense damage on levels we have truly yet to see.Very exciting times.
(DIR) Post #ASJynEj0upF7hyaUCW by jay_k@poa.st
2023-02-04T02:02:19.161152Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@LionelValentineAborted @Hoss @DW2 Yeah, look at memeflu. Subjective "disaster" became a real !disaster! Don't have just the normfags number either. Easy to get lost in this shit but end of the day AJ was right about it being a war on your mind, and Ted was right about removing techvela.
(DIR) Post #ASJz8KSwlZa7av87km by LionelValentineAborted@poa.st
2023-02-04T02:06:07.533106Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@jay_k @Hoss @DW2 We can't stop the encroachment of tech into our lives. But we can stop it from dictating our lives, by destroying its functional credibility through overload. Accelerate the heat death of the internet, and we can retain normalcy and reduce our tech usage down to the functional benefits.
(DIR) Post #ASJzPXoSObmRucOruy by StoleMyThundersBalls@poa.st
2023-02-04T02:09:14.541782Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@DW2 I'm extremely skeptical when "shepherds" of these lifestyle models wont let you have access to the resources they did, or the required learning to be able to achieve it. You have this debate between "Working as intended, skill issue." And "Being able to manipulate the system to the way people want to live." The question is who's values are right?When only the "in-group," gets to decide preference for forward progress, it becomes impossible. Only they know the current state of the art, only they get to be concerned about "safety." (job security) They decided, they are the only group who gets to make decisions about what everyone should be doing with their lives. Its so ironic! They want things to change, but they wont let them. They want things to get better (they are always getting worse) but wont let progress be made. They chastise the newer generations. (the greatest generation wouldn't have put up with their boomer bitching and moaning) "You're entitled, you're a young piece of shit, you can't even do something obsolete like I can."The boomers have done nothing but exclude everyone they can from "THEIR" society. And the gen X rainbow flag waving libshits are doing the same thing. They could just you know, NOT DO THAT. And it would be less work for them. Like how about don't expect someone to have 5 years previous experience in your extremely niche job. Maybe take the time to do some TRAINING. (And to some extent they have done that but only if you are a nog or a fat black trans latinx lesbian, because they don't want to get sued) So excluding white straight men because "muh privileged" or "nepotism" has left industry after industry hiring Chinese and pajeets instead of their own kids. But that's boomers for you. Trashed the economy with Hart-Celler, NAFTA, bad hiring practices, inflation etc... then bitch and complain that the only people they can hire are incompetent or immigrants. ENJOY YOUR $9 CARTON OF EGGS I HOPE YOU CHOKE ON THEM.
(DIR) Post #ASJza7t57tGOgvbpCa by jay_k@poa.st
2023-02-04T02:11:09.224141Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@LionelValentineAborted @Hoss @DW2 Was bringing it back to a Yellowstone level reset being niceNot discouraging any action, but seems already on overload. Shit's engineered to jerk off our dopamine
(DIR) Post #ASJzrWL1TM8tRkyMPw by EvilSandmich@poa.st
2023-02-04T02:14:17.939313Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Silvsilvchan @Humpleupagus @DW2 The life of a GenXer:>you’re going to die from global cooling, nuclear war, crack, crime, AIDS, Nazis, Arabs, plastic, meltdowns, global warmi-GenX 30 years ago: “fuck it, just get it over with already, watching it has to be more fun than being nagged to death about it!”
(DIR) Post #ASK11x7UqwnRMKBTLE by KashKustomer@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T02:06:44.268351Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Oh I used to talk about deep philosophy with people tripping, and at the time was a bit of a recovering "intellectual satanist" myself. Crowley et al.Much more "check out this concept Jung had about Job" or "if you think about it, the Devil follows God's Will as much as any other creation does" and that plus long red hair & goatee...😈I did plenty of my own tripping, but as a friend once put it, "the witchcraft, it really works well on the soft minds" so nobody could really return the favor.I'd read anything from Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test to The Holotropic Mind before I even got ahold of any cidney. Before I was in Venice, there was a good long scarcity period in the early aughts because a couple of the LSD producers got popped. But there's like 10 in the whole country at a given time, or was. So I read and researched. Most people just take this potent, ancient thing - 'rye madness', ergot, old as bread - and wonder why all they do is get high. "10 strips for breakfast" guys are boring tbh
(DIR) Post #ASK11xlCTKYVLSlBE8 by Owl@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T02:09:58.072643Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Gotta stay away from that Satanism stuff Kash, it’ll kill you.
(DIR) Post #ASK11yPG4Ob9LhVAfI by KashKustomer@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-04T02:26:15.281648Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Oh yeah, this was before the alt right was a gleam in Spencer's eye.You eventually realize that the "rebelling against Christian oppression" is to Anton LaVey what "you just hate animoo avis" is to graf. A purposeful misdirection.I had a WILD ride. 33° SR offered me Master Mason as a walk in, I declined. My bandmate took the bait, but then Jimmy always was a piece of shit.You find out that (((LaVey))) is Tony Levy and he was involved in producing CSAM and snuff films. (Go look up "my satanic adventure" by isaac bonewitz on neopagan.net).Funnily enough there's a bunch of "satanic" metal bands that used that for cover for their jew hate (Metallica, Slayer, possibly Marilyn Manson in retrospect, definitely Type O & Morbid Angel) and bands that were influenced by these types didn't get the noooonce and just went full retard. Maaaaannnnnyyyyyy such cases.Life is dark in its way, conflict and struggle define it - but just because you danced with the Devil in the pale moon light, it doesn't follow that you go home with him. Our thing has a similar quality - we are darkened by our wordly knowledge of what is, and to the normie, it makes you uncouth and evil, because norms.
(DIR) Post #ASK3uJUC71QGGvqjxI by YeetLibs@poa.st
2023-02-04T02:59:37.043387Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@DW2 why would I oppose it?
(DIR) Post #ASK4FR4z4jdTu686XA by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2023-02-04T03:03:20.911279Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
I'm not a millennial
(DIR) Post #ASK4JZUhjOJvA08GAK by branman65@poa.st
2023-02-04T03:04:11.299166Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff @DW2 Better start coffin shopping grandpa
(DIR) Post #ASK4OHkP8mNdZFivB2 by didymus@poa.st
2023-02-04T03:05:02.412675Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff @DW2 @branman65 rip, many such cases
(DIR) Post #ASKq8gxoPnKewOcp0a by Atomic_Samson@noagendasocial.com
2023-02-04T12:00:03Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@RupertvonRipp @Humpleupagus @DW2 @Silvsilvchan I keep thinking about the 'generational constellation' described in The Fourth Turning and how distorted it is now because of how the Boomers took power too early and are not letting it go.They've run the cultural and industrial infrastructure of the west into the ground attempting to reach their 1960s utopian ideals.
(DIR) Post #ASKqAgRVK7ARu6Slrk by Atomic_Samson@noagendasocial.com
2023-02-04T12:00:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@RupertvonRipp @Humpleupagus @DW2 @Silvsilvchan And without Gen X to reign in their worse excesses in this NATO/Russia war we're seeing the results of both their incompetence in running what's left of the system and their inability to face reality.
(DIR) Post #ASKsDWjU56CWZ9MAgi by Adolfo_HODL@poa.st
2023-02-04T12:19:07.825002Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@JeffTheJoker @Humpleupagus @DW2 @Silvsilvchan in my opinion, it’s actually the boomers who are going to be the most fucked on retirement.They think they can keep this ship running until they die, but the average boomer is about 69 right now, their pensions, SS, and home values are gonna collapse while they’re in their 70’s.Serves them right for trying to turn their kids into exit liquidity, even if it was really Jews who turned the US into a giant Ponzi scheme the boomers totally bought into it hook line and sinker.After that, we either rapidly rebuild the country, or our enemies seize total power and turn it into turbo-Brazil.
(DIR) Post #ASKwBxZVirjn2lCRto by Senator_Armstrong@detroitriotcity.com
2023-02-04T13:07:51.767678Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@DW2 Gen X getting out of the way while we purge boomer cringe is good news for me. I'd much rather have some 4chan guy in office lol.
(DIR) Post #ASKwG9VbHd65DvMztw by Adolfo_HODL@poa.st
2023-02-04T12:27:10.984874Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff @DW2 @PunishedD the US economy has been in a depression since 2008.Most Americans understand this at least on some level, but few realize just how bad it is.It is almost exactly equal in magnitude to the Great Depression.
(DIR) Post #ASKwGAkWfcd94VMQnw by Adolfo_HODL@poa.st
2023-02-04T12:33:49.020049Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@DW2 @jeffcliff @PunishedD we’re basically in some late Soviet Union era shit where all of the statistics are either flat out lies, or twisted and spun dishonestly.15% of the work force never returned after 2008. The true unemployment rate is around 25%. Economic growth is severely depressed. If it makes you feel better, at about 35% unemployment everybody in Germany said “fuck it, let’s give mustache man a shot”. That’s actually the number we *briefly* hit during Covid in 2020. If we had a major recession, we could easily hit 35% true-unemployment and stay there.
(DIR) Post #ASKwGBtQQ1LKcOX3JY by Adolfo_HODL@poa.st
2023-02-04T12:36:13.233015Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@DW2 @PunishedD @jeffcliff When all else fails, they take you to war!
(DIR) Post #ASLbvLSjq9tAI7nAwa by Silvsilvchan@poa.st
2023-02-04T14:10:51.365090Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Adolfo_HODL @JeffTheJoker @DW2 @Humpleupagus The boomer hippie scum born in the later half of the 40s absolutely are getting off the hook. I think the ship will probably not come to a halt before the majority of them die. Even then a lot of them have built up enough wealth to maybe coast it out if it does go to shit prematurely.Younger boomers born in the early 60s are fucked. I feel bad for them, they were born right in the midst of this shit.Jews have done their own things, but I think they get too blame. The elder boomers exhibit all their worse traits while not even being jews. They are beyond useful idiots, they are just as if not more culpable.