Post ASHu1K4KxJBAFWXTIO by masto@masto.masto.com
(DIR) More posts by masto@masto.masto.com
(DIR) Post #ASFO9unMhrRncZjZ6u by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T20:52:28Z
10 likes, 11 repeats
Alright, now we're cooking with... car.
(DIR) Post #ASFOEWyagyMZCDBZJY by Stellar@mk.absturztau.be
2023-02-01T20:53:45.063Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify@mas.to ILLEGAL ILLEGAL AMERICAN LEVELS OF ELECTRIC DANGER
(DIR) Post #ASFR0kXrkJfN5Uo08W by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T21:01:37Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
To explain, this is my car's vehicle-to-load function in action.A simple adapter signals the car to backfeed AC voltage from an inverter to the charge port (This is a generic adapter, btw, teardowns of the official unit reveal it's basically just a resistor across the control pins).This adapter turns the car into a generator capable of running basic necessities for days. You have the full 15A of any outlet at your disposal.Pretty neat™
(DIR) Post #ASFR0l1HyvCaYkZUzw by penguin42@mastodon.org.uk
2023-02-01T21:24:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify Very nice! Does it have any protection - e.g. needing the key in? Or can I cook my dinner on anyone's car while they're away?
(DIR) Post #ASFR9k3KwineAOoV1M by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T21:26:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@penguin42 The car won't open the charge door unless it's unlocked.Also, when this is in-use it becomes locked to the car and will stay so if the car is locked.
(DIR) Post #ASFSYZiEd0zzI4LfcG by deetlebee@disabled.social
2023-02-01T20:56:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT
(DIR) Post #ASFSYaIkRGCp7JQpWq by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T21:36:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@deetlebee Power outages and/or camping
(DIR) Post #ASFSYasYI8qUuMBQKu by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
2023-02-01T21:42:12.700738Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
This seems like going to quite an extreme to avoid burning stuff.
(DIR) Post #ASFSgexT0brtsOKPPk by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T21:43:14Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cjd @deetlebee I'd encourage you to take a moment and imagine some of the many other things you can do with an electrical outlet besides run a hot plate.
(DIR) Post #ASFSmQfn28RhJEoLZ2 by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
2023-02-01T21:44:44.200511Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Oh yes, that's actually really interesting, esp. for power tools and such where you don't want to be bothered to install a generator.But when it comes to camping or emergency, I don't think there's much that will beat burning stuff.
(DIR) Post #ASFSqEtmkfrrwzAr8y by teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work
2023-02-01T21:45:21Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
Especially since it is mostly just moving the burning somewhere else (US power grid is 65% gas, coal or oil)
(DIR) Post #ASFT7tTl82gAjMQ26K by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T21:47:55Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cjd @deetlebee OK, but I don't have a generator. I only keep enough gas around for my snowblower.I do, however, have this car. Conveniently, it's always where I am! And now, if there's a power cut, I can keep my fridge plugged in, keep my modem online, and cook when I need to all without investing in a generator. And I can do that for at least a few days straight.Maybe other people can use things differently than you imagine.
(DIR) Post #ASFTiXPk7zRv0q0uH2 by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
2023-02-01T21:55:14.293413Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
I'm not against the idea of coal powered electric cars, for one, you can get the noise/pollution out of urban areas, and also if regulators would stop being morons, electric cars can magically switch from being coal powered to being nuclear powered so the tech is cool.I think more the "world's most expensive coleman stove" is somewhat more silly.
(DIR) Post #ASFTvcQ8pEeMIvRAzQ by cjd@pkteerium.xyz
2023-02-01T21:57:35.271014Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
You know it strikes me that an electric car with a (really) small diesel generator would be a good idea, because as long as you have the means to acquire fuel, you'd never be totally stranded - just perhaps forced to stop for some hours.And making it really small would avoid it becoming a weight burden on the car. But I guess nobody wants to build an electric car that smells and has motor oil...
(DIR) Post #ASFTyS2prKaEzbt368 by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T21:57:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cjd @teknomunk Y'know, I didn't think I'd have to explain that this is a combination demonstration and play on "cooking with gas" but I guess I do.This is just one of the many, many, MANY things you can do with this feature. I figured that would be obvious.
(DIR) Post #ASFVArSBJcp1E4DvY8 by lonepattern@infosec.exchange
2023-02-01T22:11:17Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@cjd @deetlebee @TechConnectify This is literally what is known as a serial hybrid vehicle, also known as extended-range electric vehicle.
(DIR) Post #ASFVCXn1OdHqoom2TI by fencepost@infosec.exchange
2023-02-01T22:11:33Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cjd @deetlebee @TechConnectify there are plenty of hybrids around, though at least in consumer models they tend to be gas not diesel. Apparently the biggest problem is that you now have most of the failure modes of both ICE and electric, plus the interconnect but minus the gas to drivetrain. Overall higher maintenance but yes eliminates range anxiety.Oh, and for PHEVs you have to worry about stale gas sitting in the tank for long periods.
(DIR) Post #ASFWV0VTSwcx37vyGe by RyDawg@mstdn.ca
2023-02-01T21:06:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify So you’re telling me Ford didn’t even need to use the CCS pins on the charge connector to use the backup power feature on the Lightning?
(DIR) Post #ASFWV18p6e6R1ALObI by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T21:31:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@RyDawg To be a whole-home backup, you need a way to recreate split-phase 240. The charge port can't do that (it can only send either 120 or 240) so to provide that particular functionality, you would indeed need an offboard inverter and in that case you might as well give it access to the battery pack's DC.In theory, though, this could provide 48A at 120V which would make it quite a capable generator. It just won't be able to power any big stuff like central air.
(DIR) Post #ASFWV1hD2nbmjoQrCK by ScottEvtuch@mastodon.social
2023-02-01T21:59:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify @RyDawg Strictly speaking you don't need to create split-phase to power your house through a transfer switch.You can get an adapter that merges the X and Y on a split-phase inlet. You'll have 0v across any dual-pole breakers but all of the 120v loads will work fine.The only minor caveat is if you have shared neutrals on two branch circuits that were designed to be opposite phase you could overload the neutral wire if you run max current on both circuits.
(DIR) Post #ASFWV2KChonggkfzyi by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T22:01:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ScottEvtuch @RyDawg Sure, but then it's not a whole-home backup. None of your high-power stuff would work.
(DIR) Post #ASFWV2wqO9i0cakrCq by ScottEvtuch@mastodon.social
2023-02-01T22:08:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify @RyDawg I'm guessing most people can live without their 240v loads in an emergency unless they are on well water. In a lot of American homes the only 240v appliance is the central air conditioner.
(DIR) Post #ASFWV3Y49lU0U2AaDw by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T22:09:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ScottEvtuch @RyDawg People interested in having an electric car probably have more loads than that. Besides, it's as simple as this - they're selling it as a "whole home backup"It needs to provide split-phase 240.
(DIR) Post #ASFWV43GHmR82mlUqe by ScottEvtuch@mastodon.social
2023-02-01T22:18:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify @RyDawg Does the Ford home integration kit not output split-phase 240v? I can't find any confirmation either way online, but the fact that it needs to be installed by an electrician and that the truck already supports 240v outlets makes me think it probably does.
(DIR) Post #ASFWV4WKXhglUwMi9o by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T22:21:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ScottEvtuch @RyDawg OK, so you seem to be missing some context. The OP was asking if this is proof that Ford didn't need to use the DC pins of the CCS connector for their whole-home backup.It's not - Ford's system send DC battery voltage (through the DC pins) out to an offboard inverter which then provides the true split-phase needed for your house.The AC port only has three power pins: L1, L2/N, and GND. It doesn't *also* have neutral when charging at 240V
(DIR) Post #ASFWV5DvvaZDgAlX7Y by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T22:25:06Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ScottEvtuch @RyDawg So there's no way for the charge port to send anything out but single-phase voltage. It could do 240 or 120, but it can't do both at the same time.That's presumably the reason Ford did what they did. The AC connector can handle 80A - and that's certainly enough to power a house (if managed). But if send back as 240V across L1 and L2, none of your 120V stuff would see a circuit at all.
(DIR) Post #ASFX6J1JazqZBOc2sq by teknomunk@apogee.polaris-1.work
2023-02-01T22:33:04Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
I'm not really against the coal-powered car either. It just happens to be a common thing to hear from EV advocates. "It's cleaner than gasoline!" So long as you ignore the giant coal plant, which isn't a problem because it's not it MY backyard. I wouldn't care if they were honest about it and didn't act so self-rightous.But regardless, I don't see myself ever wanting to do this, even if I had a vehicle with something like this as a feature. In the event of a power outage, powering the fridge and freezer are at the top of the list, and propane or natural gas gets used for cooking.
(DIR) Post #ASGRdrd9X07BVvtCls by t4hiro@mastodon.online
2023-02-02T07:43:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@cjd @deetlebee @TechConnectify Look up the BMW i3 with range extender... disappointed the idea didn't catch on more. Especially over the last decade.
(DIR) Post #ASGqviG9bnPsW7jv8a by RupertReynolds@hachyderm.io
2023-02-02T10:38:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Stellar @TechConnectify I imagine it's fine and legal in most countries, until someone tries to back-feed the grid using a cable so horrible I don't even want to name it.
(DIR) Post #ASGqvikzl85Q3mAYD2 by Stellar@mk.absturztau.be
2023-02-02T13:49:51.779Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@RupertReynolds@hachyderm.io @TechConnectify@mas.to
(DIR) Post #ASHtjIB5FSHPAh64au by edwin@nerdculture.de
2023-02-01T21:13:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify as car cigarette lighters go, that’s the daddy.
(DIR) Post #ASHtjrKAZfLOB0cK7E by colin@hoagie.fun
2023-02-01T20:56:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify The internet: you can’t cook or drive without burning fossil fuels!Alec: Hold my hot plate
(DIR) Post #ASHtjs4bn0UUV2LPV2 by minecraftchest1@social.opendesktop.org
2023-02-01T21:18:21Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@colinFossil fuels are still being burned somewhere in the chain. Even if it is only manafacturing or shipping.@TechConnectify
(DIR) Post #ASHu1K4KxJBAFWXTIO by masto@masto.masto.com
2023-02-01T22:00:08Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@danbrotherston @TechConnectify https://youtu.be/lXokJEzXwaI is an interesting technical dive from a few years back on Tesla's (lack of) vehicle to grid capability, and what it would require for the inverter to be bidirectional. If you're into that sort of thing.
(DIR) Post #ASHuQnbaHGzJ5tEoq0 by kazriko@alcatir.com
2023-02-02T02:01:49.591910Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify Interesting, but it really tweaks my fears of using up too much of a vital battery resource. This is why I don't play games on my phone as well and instead use dedicated gaming handhelds, I'd be too worried about running it out of batteries and not being able to contact people. If I wanted to use electric cooking appliances in a power outage, I'd probably want to get a separate battery bank for the house. Though, if I had two cars I might consider it.
(DIR) Post #ASHuTU4NMoeXNFz9lI by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-02T02:04:04Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kazriko The battery is 77.4 kWh. That's gigantic.Using that hot plate for an hour on high will eat through less than 2% of the battery charge.Plugging my fridge, freezer, and modem in (the only three things I really care to keep live continuously) would draw, probably, 200W on average *at most*. Half a battery charge would last over a week, leaving plenty of room for cooking.
(DIR) Post #ASHuTVYXq8NZz76lQO by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-02T02:07:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@kazriko Like, even if you *maxed out* that outlet - drew the full 15A solid - you can do that for over 40 hours.I'm mainly telling you this because I don't think it's healthy to make yourself afraid from suppositions - do the math and work it out.There's so much margin here that I would happily use the car for three or four days as a backup power source before I worried about getting somewhere. And I've (luckily) never lived through a power outage that long here in Illinois.
(DIR) Post #ASHuTnCsDRjuj76i92 by kazriko@alcatir.com
2023-02-02T02:05:04.331596Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify Nobody said fears or anxieties had to be grounded in reality. ;)
(DIR) Post #ASHuWuNW0Zvfq0ZR1k by kazriko@alcatir.com
2023-02-02T02:10:24.627019Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify Yeah, It's probably entirely fine to do that. It's still one of those things that would get me to go to the "if you have 2 of something, you only have 1" school of planning for disasters. I'd probably go ahead and plug the refrigerator and freezer into it even if it was the only transportation form, but I'd probably live off something that didn't need cooking if it was my only car. I kept my old car in working order just to have a backup for emergencies.
(DIR) Post #ASHubPuohDLOo5ITAW by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-02T02:22:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Since this is doing numbers - this is not a universal feature of EVs! You can't just buy this adapter and expect it to work.This adapter is specific to Hyundai/Kia E-GMP platform cars (so, right now, the Ioniq 5, soon-to-be Ioniq 6, Kia EV6, and Genesis GV60).However, V2L and V2G tech will undoubtedly spread to more and more models - and some are already capable of providing whole-home power backup (like the Ford Lightning).Batteries: they're pretty neat™
(DIR) Post #ASHubQMT2PSiBqEYGe by interpipes@thx.gg
2023-02-02T03:00:57Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify AIUI existing and new Skoda Enyaq - which likely then means all VW group MEB platform vehicles - should be able to do V2L once CARIAD get around to writing/releasing the software… I’m not holding my breath on that one.
(DIR) Post #ASHueTRe1uu6cd6r4q by tebriel@hachyderm.io
2023-02-01T21:04:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TechConnectify I was wondering about those vehicle to load adapters but Hyundai was selling them at 2x+ more than other places I was nervous to buy a non-official one. Does this brand you have seem ok?
(DIR) Post #ASHueTwUBFZeAHXU9I by TechConnectify@mas.to
2023-02-01T21:08:59Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tebriel Seems fine! There are 2 limitations, though:It doesn't have any sort of weather seal so it cannot be used outdoors. Not an issue for me since I would only use this for emergencies when the car is parked in the garage anywaySecond, that little nubbin between the two slots of the AC plug is the button that actually signals the car to send charge. So you need a tight-fitting cord to be firmly inserted in order for it to workBut it feels well-built, and for $129 it's easier to swallow
(DIR) Post #ASHugm7jYMwf8HtTOa by SuperMoosie@mastodon.au
2023-02-02T07:07:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tebriel Or just take a electric bbq, where ever you used to lug gas ones.
(DIR) Post #ASHulLbzYGIoM5E8Lg by ikani@rubber.social
2023-02-02T11:26:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@minecraftchest1 @colin @TechConnectify are they? I charge both EVs at my house pretty much exclusively from my solar installation and my local grid power comes from the large wind farm a few miles away
(DIR) Post #ASHulMA1VjWa3d9JOS by minecraftchest1@social.opendesktop.org
2023-02-02T12:42:24Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ikaniThe factory that produced the solar cells, the mounting hardware, cabeling, invertets, transformers, etc almost certinally used fossil fuels in the manafacturing process.I am sure induction is starting to be rolled out in metal bracket manafacturing, but I don't think it is common yet.Based on how uncommon electric semis still seem to be (I have not looked into this recently), the panels were likely shipped with disel trucks.@colin @TechConnectify
(DIR) Post #ASHulNZaGBZ4RC7EsC by minecraftchest1@social.opendesktop.org
2023-02-02T12:43:11Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ikaniIn fairness, this is true of all energy sources, and doesn't mean much. If I wanted to compare clean energy sources, it would make more sense to look at energy offsets, or what percentage of the energy required to build one generator of a power source (one panel, one turbine, etc).@colin @TechConnectify
(DIR) Post #ASHulP8MSMyfHLOWie by minecraftchest1@social.opendesktop.org
2023-02-02T12:43:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ikaniI have not done that research of wind, solar, or hydro power, or even nucular for that matter. However from what I have gathered from talking with others, nucular has an offset of at least 1,000% or more, whereas wind and hydro are closer to 200% and 400% respectively, with solar being around 100%. (Numbers are a rough guess with no research, so take with a grain of salt). @colin @TechConnectify