Post ASDRyNTjFc59arWkFM by Moon@shitposter.club
(DIR) More posts by Moon@shitposter.club
(DIR) Post #ASDQqQogr8sbfwykIC by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:13:35.407880Z
8 likes, 3 repeats
"this is censorship"remember when you guys were censoring people, last week, and you said everyone actually wants censorship just according to their own standards
(DIR) Post #ASDR0Hqx2MjYltjg92 by vriska@lizards.live
2023-01-31T22:15:23Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon tbf very vew people are actually anti-all censorship, see the whole "It's based when the government oppresses people I don't like"attitude on both and all sides
(DIR) Post #ASDR4CsRTnJSUtInho by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:16:06.789299Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vriska yeah definitely
(DIR) Post #ASDRLtuqiQ3Yu1riG8 by ademan@thebag.social
2023-01-31T22:19:20.443399Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Mildly curious what this is about
(DIR) Post #ASDRQl492zLCu1Wt2O by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:20:05.675536Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vriska people dragging all the books out of the classrooms or covering them up etc. is more likely tactical incompetence rather than actual fear.The law is bad though so
(DIR) Post #ASDRUXOnnmu5fqzgiu by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:20:53.071344Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ademan florida book law thing
(DIR) Post #ASDRXy76vyJTOfM4Dg by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:21:30.306574Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ademan it's probably worth being upset about but i can't get over the theatrical shitlib hand-wringing
(DIR) Post #ASDRcQfihHzX7vfbU0 by vriska@lizards.live
2023-01-31T22:22:17Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Moon two towns over from here is an extremely rich and extremely white yuppie new money suburb and they had people going into libraries covering up any book that had a rainbow on it and they covered up and defaced childrens editions of the king james bible. this is the same town that hosted a klan rally last year
(DIR) Post #ASDRnJnAcI1YyVLaJE by ademan@thebag.social
2023-01-31T22:24:17.344900Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I’m sure it goes too far, but uh, there was some material that 110% should never have been in school libraries. Being reasonable and removing that shit could have sucked the wind out of a bill like this. Also school libraries have never been free speech zones, and have always been heavily curated.
(DIR) Post #ASDRxZV54JSEaZm7Pc by NEETzsche@iddqd.social
2023-01-31T22:26:07.118689Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vriska @Moon based
(DIR) Post #ASDRyNTjFc59arWkFM by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:26:09.729910Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ademan yeah curation is how they keep right wing books out of school libraries. like i mentioned the other day to somebody that blocks us, I could easily come up with a collection of books you'd ban if i had the power to fuck with you and put them in school libraries.
(DIR) Post #ASDS0ik3AKII7THKJk by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-01-31T22:26:42.107039Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
So my kids can't get the Anarchist's Cookbook? 😒
(DIR) Post #ASDSF5wFiWTI7Kq9XU by ademan@thebag.social
2023-01-31T22:29:15.601077Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
you’ll have to buy a copy for them yourself… :pensive_cowboy:
(DIR) Post #ASDSMftgQFgLfTFjmq by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-01-31T22:30:40.866789Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
I think I still have it on 3.5" floppy from 1995. I think my old school principal still has a copy he confiscated too. 🤔
(DIR) Post #ASDSOzYkI0UpEEZ38y by WeissenSocken88@poa.st
2023-01-31T22:31:06.593224Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @ademan @Moon have sex with his wife
(DIR) Post #ASDSUeWPQ6BXidAdjU by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-01-31T22:32:07.347755Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
She's like 90 years old. 🤮
(DIR) Post #ASDSkXLTrviI5ydJx2 by JedDrudge@nicecrew.digital
2023-01-31T22:34:23.286784Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Always back up...
(DIR) Post #ASDSkfb1C2tZgTxqHQ by whiteline@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:34:59.830369Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon @ademan i remember in my primary school library we had "a child called it" for a while, for any kid to read. that's more the kind of material you maybe should curate away from small childrenon the other hand our librarian was severely schizophrenic to the point of once throwing books at the head of poor little johnny, so maybe that was too much to ask
(DIR) Post #ASDSvEYs31Mp1UzsMy by JedDrudge@nicecrew.digital
2023-01-31T22:35:46.887898Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Saw "Antichrist's Cookbook... *phew*...
(DIR) Post #ASDSvXhMteSCNM7Qki by Kacho@masochi.st
2023-01-31T22:36:54.858371Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @WeissenSocken88 @Moon @ademan old women have that delicious baked in funk like aged cheese
(DIR) Post #ASDSxhrc4cGkTvwVKC by explosionguy@freespeechextremist.com
2023-01-31T22:37:23.233894Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vriska @Moon the proper policy is to privatize the libraries and schools so that people actually have a choice of where and how their kids are educated
(DIR) Post #ASDT1Vf1O0QLnDrmSm by ademan@thebag.social
2023-01-31T22:38:03.576359Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
on the other hand our librarian was severely schizophrenic to the point of once throwing books at the head of poor little johnnyNow that’s what I call gatekeeping!
(DIR) Post #ASDT2QtAc4btHbvNvk by NEETzsche@iddqd.social
2023-01-31T22:38:13.286921Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@whiteline @Moon @ademan Why do you want to take that book away? Are you from another dimension? These takes...
(DIR) Post #ASDT63hwk2K6XxP6Aq by whiteline@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:38:53.516453Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@NEETzsche @Moon @ademan it's a long-form and detailed account of extreme child abuse
(DIR) Post #ASDT9BgZXKUm9sFjxw by NEETzsche@iddqd.social
2023-01-31T22:39:26.702815Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@whiteline @Moon @ademan And?
(DIR) Post #ASDTAFpjbJ2ZJP2zPU by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-01-31T22:39:38.101076Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
This is kinda funny.... watching them suddenly become concerned about censorship. I don't feel as bad seeing how they have behaved in recent years, and are still behaving in many domains. I think DeSantis is an absolute douche nozzle though. https://www.salon.com/2022/10/01/statewide-book-bans-are-coming-to-floridas-classrooms-enforced-by-the-far-right/
(DIR) Post #ASDTVgWtXYdgBpSD3Y by whiteline@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:43:31.492791Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@NEETzsche @Moon @ademan in a primary school library, where some eight year old can walk in and read it?
(DIR) Post #ASDTdAtH3cF0NbUdMG by basedarchlinuxuser@pp.logografos.com
2023-01-31T22:44:52.276818Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @Moon @ademan Ohh, you just made me aware of something I didn't know I wanted 👀https://www.amazon.com/Anarchist-Cookbook-William-Powell/dp/1607966123/
(DIR) Post #ASDTjjEwGAoCeMkfUe by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T22:45:36.481932Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
> Also school libraries have never been free speech zones, and have always been heavily curated.by lawmakers? when?
(DIR) Post #ASDTlGWbzaOQAgkcjI by thecoopsters@angrytoday.com
2023-01-31T22:46:19Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @Moon @ademan The Internet has no end.https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=3416606
(DIR) Post #ASDTqfQqodpsrpdFlA by whiteline@shitposter.club
2023-01-31T22:47:18.219117Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ademan @Moon he had another teacher who was too autistic to work as a teacher throw stuff at his head too during a lessonwhen i saw him in high school he looked like death, at one point he legit hissed at me like gollum when i walked past, completely unprovoked (i wish i was doing a bit here, this was after his uncle had poured gasoline into the town hamburger place and set it on fire after waiting too long, blowing the place sky high, idk that family had problems)
(DIR) Post #ASDTt39xZIGP2Irqym by runtimeterror@noagendasocial.com
2023-01-31T22:47:44Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@feld I would think by school boards? schools are never free speech zones. i remember having to turn my t shirt inside out @Moon @ademan
(DIR) Post #ASDTz3m6C5o6gJZZ4a by KennyWhitePowers@nicecrew.digital
2023-01-31T22:48:31.382639Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
I gave your mother a 3.5" floppy one time
(DIR) Post #ASDU1CQkz0lI6dbtlw by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-01-31T22:49:12.599502Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
Asian identified. 😏
(DIR) Post #ASDU4xhpfdrhb4OKEi by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T22:49:30.215128Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
The school board does not audit the entire library. There's no fucking way.
(DIR) Post #ASDUB12iB4NvgQ2nLM by nolasco@iddqd.social
2023-01-31T22:50:59.325871Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
the fact it's on amazon should tell you the information inside can't actually be used to do anything fun.
(DIR) Post #ASDUGIQQycet2gerDc by Eiregoat@nicecrew.digital
2023-01-31T22:42:45.267184Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
The solution is to have schools run by parents and communities to keep them in line with their values. Education of children cannot be trusted to politicans.
(DIR) Post #ASDUIdHaOujmJEdL3g by KennyWhitePowers@nicecrew.digital
2023-01-31T22:52:18.928656Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
It was cold, and I was intimidated by her moves ok?
(DIR) Post #ASDUJcofcWRl9Va7ay by runtimeterror@noagendasocial.com
2023-01-31T22:52:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@feld @Moon @ademan https://www.tagari.com/who-decides-the-books-to-read-for-public-schools/
(DIR) Post #ASDULGz9l3RQ1ZGw6K by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-01-31T22:52:50.340343Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
Thermite is free speech!
(DIR) Post #ASDUNE8ZJnrllnbf4S by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-01-31T22:53:11.448471Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
(DIR) Post #ASDUUAr5v0ytcPkIAi by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-01-31T22:54:26.664105Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
What's the actual process involved? Teachers have to provide a list and parents can challenge?
(DIR) Post #ASDVUOxBbMD5IWGdI8 by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:05:17.565509Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
no, this is different. this is not the contents of the library. these are the textbooks. Have you read Carl Sagan's adventure in this area? fucking maddening. completely insane. America has been doomed for decades.
(DIR) Post #ASDVoUpTSwOPJQF4G8 by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:08:58.397543Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
Judging Books by their Covers - Carl SaganAfter the war, physicists were often asked to go to Washington and give advice to various sections of the government, especially the military. What happened, I suppose, is that since the scientists had made these bombs that were so important, the military felt we were useful for something.Once I was asked to serve on a committee which was to evaluate various weapons for the army, and I wrote a letter back which explained that I was only a theoretical physicist, and I didn’t know anything about weapons for the army.The army responded that they had found in their experience that theoretical physicists were very useful to them in making decisions, so would I please reconsider?I wrote back again and said I didn’t really know anything, and doubted I could help them.Finally I got a letter from the Secretary of the Army, which proposed a compromise: I would come to the first meeting, where I could listen and see whether I could make a contribution or not. Then I could decide whether I should continue.I said I would, of course. What else could I do?I went down to Washington and the first thing that I went to was a cocktail party to meet everybody. There were generals and other important characters from the army, and everybody talked. It was pleasant enough.One guy in a uniform came to me and told me that the army was glad that physicists were advising the military because it had a lot of problems. One of the problems was that tanks use up their fuel very quickly and thus can’t go very far. So the question was how to refuel them as they’re going along. Now this guy had the idea that, since the physicists can get energy out of uranium, could I work out a way in which we could use silicon dioxide–sand, dirt–as a fuel? If that were possible, then all this tank would have to do would be to have a little scoop underneath, and as it goes along, it would pick up the dirt and use it for fuel! He thought that was a great idea, and that all I had to do was to work out the details. That was the kind of problem I thought we would be talking about in the meeting the next day.I went to the meeting and noticed that some guy who had introduced me to all the people at the cocktail party was sitting next to me. He was apparently some flunky assigned to be at my side at all times. On my other side was some super general I had heard of before.At the first session of the meeting they talked about some technical matters, and I made a few comments. But later on, near the end of the meeting, they began to discuss some problem of logistics, about which I knew nothing. It had to do with figuring out how much stuff you should have at different places at different times. And although I tried to keep my trap shut, when you get into a situation like that, where you’re sitting around a table with all these “important people” discussing these “important problems,” you _can’t_ keep your mouth shut, even if you know nothing whatsoever! So I made some comments in that discussion, too.During the next coffee break the guy who had been assigned to shepherd me around said, “I was very impressed by the things you said during the discussion. They certainly were an important contribution.”I stopped and thought about my “contribution” to the logistics problem, and realized that a man like the guy who orders the stuff for Christmas at Macy’s would be better able to figure out how to handle problems like that than I. So I concluded: a) if I had made an important contribution, it was sheer luck; b) anybody else could have done as well, but _most_ people could have done _better_, and c) this flattery should wake me up to the fact that I am _not_ capable of contributing much.Right after that they decided, in the meeting, that they could do better discussing the _organization_ of scientific research (such as, should scientific development be under the Corps of Engineers or the Quartermaster Division?) than specific technical matters. I knew that if there was to be _any_ hope of my making a real contribution, it would be only on some specific technical matter, and surely not on how to organize research in the army.
(DIR) Post #ASDVthiCzlVAiQKKHI by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:10:01.000273Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Until then I didn’t let on any of my feelings about the situation to the chairman of the meeting–the big shot who had invited me in the first place. As we were packing our bags to leave, he said to me, all smiles, “You’ll be joining us, then, for the next meeting..“No, I won’t.” I could see his face change suddenly. He was _very_ surprised that I would say no, after making those “contributions.”In the early sixties, a lot of my friends were still giving advice to the government. Meanwhile, I was having no feeling of social responsibility and resisting, as much as possible, offers to go to Washington, which took a certain amount of courage in those times.I was giving a series of freshman physics lectures at that time, and after one of them, Tom Harvey, who assisted me in putting on the demonstrations, said, “You oughta see what’s happening to mathematics in schoolbooks! My daughter comes home with a lot of crazy stuff!”I didn’t pay much attention to what he said.But the next day I got a telephone call from a pretty famous lawyer here in Pasadena, Mr. Norris, who was at that time on the State Board of Education. He asked me if I would serve on the State Curriculum Commission, which had to choose the new schoolbooks for the state of California. You see, the state had a law that all of the schoolbooks used by all of the kids in all of the public schools have to be chosen by the State Board of Education, so they have a committee to look over the books and to give them advice on which books to take.It happened that a lot of the books were on a new method of teaching arithmetic that they called “new math,” and since usually the only people to look at the books were schoolteachers or administrators in education, they thought it would be a good idea to have somebody who _uses_ mathematics scientifically, who knows what the end product is and what we’re trying to teach it for, to help in the evaluation of the schoolbooks.I must have had, by this time, a guilty feeling about not cooperating with the government, because I agreed to get on this committee._Immediately_ I began getting letters and telephone calls from book publishers. They said things like, “We’re very glad to hear you’re on the committee because we really wanted a scientific guy . . . and “It’s wonderful to have a scientist on the committee, because our books are scientifically oriented . . .”But they also said things like, “We’d like to explain to you what our book is about . . .” and “We’ll be very glad to help you in any way we can to judge our books . . .”That seemed to me kind of crazy. I’m an objective scientist, and it seemed to me that since the only thing the kids in school are going to get is the books (and the teachers get the teacher’s manual, which I would also get), any _extra_ explanation from the company was a distortion. So I didn’t want to speak to any of the publishers and always replied, “You don’t have to explain; I’m sure the books will speak for themselves.”I represented a certain district, which comprised most of the Los Angeles area except for the city of Los Angeles, which was represented by a very nice lady from the L.A. school system named Mrs. Whitehouse. Mr. Norris suggested that I meet her and find out what the committee did and how it worked.Mrs. Whitehouse started out telling me about the stuff they were going to talk about in the next meeting (they had already had one meeting; I was appointed late). “They’re going to talk about the counting numbers.” I didn’t know what that was, but it turned out they were what I used to call integers. They had different names for everything, so I had a lot of trouble right from the start.She told me how the members of the commission normally rated the new schoolbooks. They would get a relatively large number of copies of each book and would give them to various teachers and administrators in their district. Then they would get reports back on what these people thought about the books. Since I didn’t know a lot of teachers or administrators, and since I felt that I could, by reading the books myself, make up my mind as to how they looked to _me_, I chose to read all the books myself. (There were some people in my district who had expected to look at the books and wanted a chance to give their opinion. Mrs. Whitehouse offered to put their reports in with hers so they would feel better and I wouldn’t have to worry about their complaints. They were satisfied, and I didn’t get much trouble.)A few days later a guy from the book depository called me up and said, “We’re ready to send you the books, Mr. Feynman; there are three hundred pounds.”I was overwhelmed.“It’s all right, Mr. Feynman; we’ll get someone to help you read them.”
(DIR) Post #ASDVxlvjFq3CxKagL2 by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:10:46.510385Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
I couldn’t figure out how you _do_ that: you either read them or you don’t read them. I had a special bookshelf put in my study downstairs (the books took up seventeen feet), and began reading all the books that were going to be discussed in the next meeting. We were going to start out with the elementary schoolbooks.It was a pretty big job, and I worked all the time at it down in the basement. My wife says that during this period it was like living over a volcano. It would be quiet for a while, but then all of a sudden, “BLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!”–there would be a big explosion from the “volcano” below. The reason was that the books were so lousy. They were false. They were hurried. They would _try_ to be rigorous, but they would use examples (like automobiles in the street for “sets”) which were _almost_ OK, but in which there were always some subtleties. The definitions weren’t accurate. Everything was a little bit ambiguous–they weren’t _smart_ enough to understand what was meant by “rigor.” They were faking it. They were teaching something they didn’t understand, and which was, in fact, _useless_, at that time, for the child.I understood what they were trying to do. Many people thought we were behind the Russians after Sputnik, and some mathematicians were asked to give advice on how to teach math by using some of the rather interesting modern concepts of mathematics. The purpose was to enhance mathematics for the children who found it dull.I’ll give you an example: They would talk about different bases of numbers–five, six, and so on–to show the possibilities. That would be interesting for a kid who could understand base ten–something to entertain his mind. But what they had turned it into, in these books, was that _every_ child had to learn another base! And then the usual horror would come: “Translate these numbers, which are written in base seven, to base five.” Translating from one base to another is an _utterly useless_ thing. If you _can_ do it, maybe it’s entertaining; if you _can’t_ do it, forget it. There’s no _point_ to it.Anyhow, I’m looking at all these books, all these books, and none of them has said anything about using arithmetic in science. If there are any examples on the use of arithmetic at all (most of the time it’s this abstract new modern nonsense), they are about things like buying stamps.Finally I come to a book that says, “Mathematics is used in science in many ways. We will give you an example from astronomy, which is the science of stars.” I turn the page, and it says, “Red stars have a temperature of four thousand degrees, yellow stars have a temperature of five thousand degrees . . .” –so far, so good. It continues: “Green stars have a temperature of seven thousand degrees, blue stars have a temperature of ten thousand degrees, and violet stars have a temperature of . . . (some big number).” There are no green or violet stars, but the figures for the others are roughly correct. It’s _vaguely_ right–but already, trouble! That’s the way everything was: Everything was written by somebody who didn’t know what the hell he was talking about, so it was a little bit wrong, always! And how we are going to teach well by using books written by people who don’t _quite_ understand what they’re talking about, I _cannot_ understand. I don’t know why, but the books are lousy; UNIVERSALLY LOUSY!Anyway, I’m _happy_ with this book, because it’s the first example of applying arithmetic to science. I’m a _bit_ unhappy when I read about the stars’ temperatures, but I’m not _very_ unhappy because it’s more or less right–it’s just an example of error. Then cdtnes the list of problems. It says, “John and his father go out to look at the stars. John sees two blue stars and a red star. His father sees a green star, a violet star, and two yellow stars. What is the total temperature of the stars seen by John and his father?”–and I would explode in horror.My wife would talk about the volcano downstairs. That’s only an example: it was _perpetually_ like that. Perpetual absurdity! There’s no purpose whatsoever in adding the temperature of two stars. Nobody ever does that except, maybe, to then take the _average_ temperature of the stars, but _not_ to find out the _total_ temperature of all the stars! It was awful! All it was was a game to get you to add, and they didn’t understand what they were talking about. It was like reading sentences with a few typographical errors, and then suddenly a whole sentence is written backwards. The mathematics was like that. Just hopeless!
(DIR) Post #ASDVzWch8Wai3rWWIq by basedarchlinuxuser@pp.logografos.com
2023-01-31T23:11:19.366311Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Humpleupagus @nolasco @Moon @ademan Jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel beams, they were painted with nano-thermite laced paint. 7/11 was an inside job!
(DIR) Post #ASDW4W0SrACtb41Mki by Humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club
2023-01-31T23:12:12.991481Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Weren't there some Israeli art students in there a few days before?
(DIR) Post #ASDW5nvbi3r9TAMcHw by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:12:06.773688Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Then I came to my first meeting. The other members had given some kind of ratings to some of the books, and they asked me what _my_ ratings were. My rating was often different from theirs, and they would ask, “Why did you rate that book low?”I would say the trouble with that book was this and this on page so-and-so–I had my notes.They discovered that I was kind of a goldmine: I would tell them, in detail, what was good and bad in all the books; I had a reason for every rating.I would ask them why they had rated this book so high, and they would say, “Let us hear what you thought about such and such a book.” I would never find out why they rated anything the way they did. Instead, they kept asking me what _I_ thought.We came to a certain book, part of a set of three supplementary books published by the same company, and they asked me what I thought about it.I said, “The book depository didn’t send me that book, but the other two were nice.”Someone tried repeating the question: “What do you think about that book?”“I said they didn’t send me that one, so I don’t have any judgment on it.”The man from the book depository was there, and he said, “Excuse me; I can explain that. I didn’t send it to you because that book hadn’t been completed yet. There’s a rule that you have to have every entry in by a certain time, and the publisher was a few days late with it. So it was sent to us with just the covers, and it’s blank in between. The company sent a note excusing themselves and hoping they could have their set of three books considered, even though the third one would be late.”It turned out that the blank book had a rating by some of the other members! They couldn’t believe it was blank, because they had a rating. In fact, the rating for the missing book was a little bit higher than for the two others. The fact that there was nothing in the book had nothing to do with the rating.I believe the reason for all this is that the system works this way: When you give books all over the place to people, they’re busy; they’re careless; they think, “Well, a lot of people are reading this book, SO it doesn’t make any difference.” And they put in some kind of number–some of them, at least; not all of them, but _some_ of them. Then when you receive your reports, you don’t know _why_ this particular book has fewer reports than the other books–that is, perhaps one book has ten, and this one only has six people reporting–so you average the rating of those who reported; you don’t average the ones who didn’t report, so you get a reasonable number. This process of averaging all the time misses the fact that there is absolutely nothing between the covers of the book!I made that theory up because I saw what happened in the curriculum commission: For the blank book, only six out of the ten members were reporting, whereas with the other books, eight or nine out of the ten were reporting. And when they averaged the six, they got as good an average as when they averaged with eight or nine. They were very embarrassed to discover they were giving ratings to that book, and it gave me a little bit more confidence. It turned out the other members of the committee had done a lot of work in giving out the books and collecting reports, and had gone to sessions in which the book publishers would _explain_ the books before they read them; I was the only guy on that commission who read all the books and didn’t get any information from the book publishers except what was in the books themselves, the things that would ultimately go to the schools.This question of trying to figure out whether a book is good or bad by looking at it carefully or by taking the reports of a lot of people who looked at it carelessly is like this famous old problem: Nobody was permitted to see the Emperor of China, and the question was, What is the length of the Emperor of China’s nose? To find out, you go all over the country asking people what they think the length of the Emperor of China’s nose is, and you _average_ it. And that would be very “accurate” because you averaged so many people. But it’s no way to find anything out; when you have a very wide range of people who contribute without looking carefully at it, you don’t improve your knowledge of the situation by averaging.
(DIR) Post #ASDWA4Cl8SRN6oQ2fw by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:13:00.623792Z
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At first we weren’t supposed to talk about the cost of the books. We were told how many books we could choose, so we designed a program which used a lot of supplementary books, because all the new textbooks had failures of one kind or another. The most serious failures were in the “new math” books: there were no applications; not enough word problems. There was no talk of selling stamps; instead there was too much talk about commutation and abstract things and not enough translation to situations in the world. What do you do: add, subtract, multiply, or divide? So we suggested some books which _had_ some of that as supplementary–one or two for each classroom–in addition to a textbook for each student. We had it all worked out to balance everything, after much discussion.When we took our recommendations to the Board of Education, they told us they didn’t have as much money as they had thought, so we’d have to go over the whole thing and cut out this and that, now taking the _cost_ into consideration, and ruining what was a fairly balanced program, in which there was a _chance_ for a teacher to find examples of the things (s)he needed.Now that they changed the rules about how many books we could recommend and we had no more chance to balance, it was a pretty lousy program. When the senate budget committee got to it, the program was emasculated still further. Now it was _really_ lousy! I was asked to appear before the state senators when the issue was being discussed, but I declined: By that time, having argued this stuff so much, I was tired. We had prepared our recommendations for the Board of Education, and I figured it was _their_ job to present it to the state–which was _legally_ right, but not politically sound. I shouldn’t have given up so soon, but to have worked so hard and discussed so much about all these books to make a fairly balanced program, and then to have the whole thing scrapped at the end–that was discouraging! The whole thing was an unnecessary effort that could have been turned around and done the opposite way: _start_ with the cost of the books, and buy what you can afford.What finally clinched it, and made me ultimately resign, was that the following year we were going to discuss science books. I thought maybe the science would be different, so I looked at a few of them.The same thing happened: something would look good at first and then turn out to be horrifying. For example, there was a book that started out with four pictures: first there was a wind-up toy; then there was an automobile; then there was a boy riding a bicycle; then there was something else. And underneath each picture it said, “What makes it go?”I thought, “I know what it is: They’re going to talk about mechanics, how the springs work inside the toy; about chemistry, how the engine of the automobile works; and biology, about how the muscles work.”It was the kind of thing my father would have talked about: “What makes it go? Everything goes because the sun is shining.” And then we would have fun discussing it:“No, the toy goes because the spring is wound up,” I would say.“How did the spring get wound up?” he would ask.“I wound it up.”“And how did you get moving?”“From eating.”“And food grows only because the sun is shining. So it’s because the sun is shining that all these things are moving.” That would get the concept across that motion is simply the _transformation_ of the sun’s power.I turned the page. The answer was, for the wind-up toy, “Energy makes it go.” And for the boy on the bicycle, “Energy makes it go.” For everything, “_Energy_ makes it go.”Now that doesn’t _mean_ anything. Suppose it’s “Wakalixes.” That’s the general principle: “Wakalixes makes it go.” There’s no knowledge coming in. The child doesn’t learn anything; it’s just a _word_!What they should have done is to look at the wind-up toy, see that there are springs inside, learn about springs, learn about wheels, and never mind “energy.” Later on, when the children know something about how the toy actually works, they can discuss the more general principles of energy.It’s also not even true that “energy makes it go,” because if it stops, you could say, “energy makes it stop” just as well, What they’re talking about is concentrated energy being transformed into more dilute forms, which is a very subtle aspect of energy. Energy is neither increased nor decreased in these examples; it’s just changed from one form to another. And when the things stop, the energy is changed into heat, into general chaos.But that’s the way all the books were: They said things that were useless, mixed-up, ambiguous, confusing, and partially incorrect. How anybody can learn science from these books, I don’t know, because it’s not science.
(DIR) Post #ASDWBf8bIywDwaEcRE by basedarchlinuxuser@pp.logografos.com
2023-01-31T23:13:31.171492Z
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@Humpleupagus @nolasco @Moon @ademan Israelis just happened to film it in a parking lot with a great view and were dancing when the buildings went down, total coincidence 🤔
(DIR) Post #ASDWKD7AraiJdddxnU by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:14:41.952009Z
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So when I saw all these horrifying books with the same kind of trouble as the math books had, I saw my volcano process starting again. Since I was exhausted from reading all the math books, and discouraged from its all being a wasted effort, I couldn’t face another year of that, and had to resign.Sometime later I heard that the energy-makes-it-go book was going to be recommended by the curriculum commission to the Board of Education, so I made one last effort. At each meeting of the commission the public was allowed to make comments, so I got up and said why I thought the book was bad.The man who replaced me on the commission said, “That book was approved by sixty-five engineers at the Such-and-such Aircraft Company!”I didn’t doubt that the company had some pretty good engineers, but to take sixty-five engineers is to take a wide range of ability–and to necessarily include some pretty poor guys! It was once again the problem of _averaging_ the length of the emperor’s nose, or the ratings on a book with nothing between the covers. It would have been far better to have the company decide who their better engineers were, and to have _them_ look at the book. I couldn’t claim that I was smarter than sixty-five other guys–but the _average_ of sixtyfive other guys, certainly!I couldn’t get through to him, and the book was approved by the board.When I was still on the commission, I had to go to San Francisco a few times for some of the meetings, and when I returned to Los Angeles from the first trip, I stopped in the commission office to get reimbursed for my expenses.“How much did it cost, Mr. Feynman?”“Well, I flew to San Francisco, so it’s the airfare, plus the parking at the airport while I was away.”“Do you have your ticket?”I happened to have the ticket.“Do you have a receipt for the parking?”“No, but it cost $2.35 to park my car.”“But we have to have a receipt.”“I _told_ you how much it cost. If you don’t trust me, why do you let me tell you what I think is good and bad about the schoolbooks?”There was a big stew about that. Unfortunately, I had been used to giving lectures for some company or university or for ordinary people, not for the government. I was used to, “What were your expenses?”–“So-and-so much.”–“Here you are, Mr. Feynman.”I then decided I wasn’t going to give them a receipt for _anything_.After the second trip to San Francisco they again asked me for my ticket and receipts.“I haven’t _got_ any.”“This can’t go on, Mr. Feynman.”“When I accepted to serve on the commission, I was told you were going to pay my expenses.”“But we expected to have some receipts to _prove_ the expenses.”“I have nothing to _prove_ it, but you _know_ I live in Los Angeles and I go to these other towns; how the hell do you think I _get_ there?”They didn’t give in, and neither did I. I feel when you’re in a position like that, where you choose not to buckle down to the System, you must pay the consequences if it doesn’t work. So I’m perfectly satisfied, but I never did get compensation for the trips.It’s one of those games I play. They want a receipt? I’m not giving them a receipt. Then you’re not going to get the money. OK, then I’m not taking the money. They don’t trust me? The hell with it; they don’t have to pay me. Of course it’s absurd! I know that’s the way the government works; well, _screw_ the government! I feel that human beings should treat human beings like human beings. And unless I’m going to be treated like one, I’m not going to have anything to do with them! They feel bad? They feel bad. I feel bad, too. We’ll just let it go. I know they’re “protecting the taxpayer,” but see how well you think the taxpayer was being protected in the following situation.There were two books that we were unable to come to a decision about after much discussion; they were extremely close. So we left it open to the Board of Education to decide. Since the board was now taking the cost into consideration, and since the two books were so evenly matched, the board decided to open the bids and take the lower one.Then the question came up, “Will the schools be getting the books at the regular time, or could they, perhaps, get them a little earlier, in time for the coming term?”One publisher’s representative got up and said, “We are happy that you accepted our bid; we can get it out in time for the next term.”A representative of the publisher that lost out was also there, and he got up and said, “Since our bids were submitted based on the later deadline, I think we should have a chance a bid again for the earlier deadline, because we too can meet the earlier deadline.”Mr. Norris, the Pasadena lawyer on the board, asked the guy from the other publisher, “And how much would it _cost_ for us to get your books at the earlier date?”And he gave a number: It was _less!_
(DIR) Post #ASDWSmNrcKZhLAXI24 by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:16:16.536455Z
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The first guy got up: “If _he_ changes his bid, I have the right to change _my_ bid!”–and his bid is _still_ less!Norris asked, “Well how _is_ that–we get the books earlier and it’s _cheaper_?”“Yes,” one guy says. “We can use a special offset method we wouldn’t normally use . . .” –some excuse why it came out cheaper.The other guy agreed: “When you do it quicker, it costs less!”That was really a shock. It ended up _two million dollars_ cheaper. Norris was really incensed by this sudden change.What happened, of course, was that the uncertainty about the date had opened the possibility that these guys could bid against each other. Normally, when books were supposed to be chosen without taking the cost into consideration, there was no reason to lower the price; the book publishers could put the prices at any place they wanted to. There was no advantage in competing by lowering the price; the way you competed was to impress the members of the curriculum commission.By the way, whenever our commission had a meeting, there were book publishers entertaining curriculum commission members by taking them to lunch and talking to them about their books. I never went.It seems obvious now, but I didn’t know what was happening the time I got a package of dried fruit and whatnot delivered by Western Union with a message that read, “From our family to yours, Happy Thanksgiving–The Pamilios.”It was from a family I had never heard of in Long Beach, obviously someone wanting to send this to his friend’s family who got the name and address wrong, so I thought I’d better straighten it out. I called up Western Union, got the telephone number of the people who sent the stuff, and I called them.“Hello, my name is Mr. Feynman. I received a package . . .”“Oh, hello, Mr. Feynman, this is Pete Pamilio” and he says it in such a friendly way that I think I’m supposed to know who he is! I’m normally such a dunce that I can’t remember who anyone is.So I said, “I’m sorry, Mr. Pamilio, but I don’t quite remember who you are . . .”It turned out he was a representative of one of the publishers whose books I had to judge on the curriculum commission.“I see. But this could be misunderstood.”“It’s only family to family.”“Yes, but I’m judging a book that you’re publishing, and maybe someone might misinterpret your kindness!” I knew what was happening, but I made it sound like I was a complete idiot.Another thing like this happened when one of the publishers sent me a leather briefcase with my name nicely written in gold on it. I gave them the same stuff: “I can’t accept it; I’m judging some of the books you’re publishing. I don’t think you understand that!”One commissioner, who had been there for the greatest length of time, said, “I never accept the stuff; it makes me very upset. But it just goes on.”But I _really_ missed one opportunity. If I had only thought fast enough, I could have had a very good time on that commission. I got to the hotel in San Francisco in the evening to attend my very first meeting the next day, and I decided to go out to wander in the town and eat something. I came out of the elevator, and sitting on a bench in the hotel lobby were two guys who jumped up and said, “Good evening, Mr. Feynman. Where are you going? Is there something we can show you in San Francisco?” They were from a publishing company, and I didn’t want to have anything to do with them.“I’m going out to eat.”“We can take you out to dinner.”“No, I want to be alone.”“Well, whatever you want, we can help you.”I couldn’t resist. I said, “Well, I’m going out to get myself in trouble.”“I think we can help you in _that_, too.”“No, I think I’ll take care of that myself.” Then I thought, “What an error! I should have let _all_ that stuff operate and keep a diary, so the people of the state of California could find out how far the publishers will go!” And when I found out about the two-million-dollar difference, God knows what the pressures are!THE END
(DIR) Post #ASDWdT5Li2hwfjyMim by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:18:12.579133Z
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tl;drthe people choosing the books don't read them, they choose them based on price. and sometimes what's on the cover of the books. sometimes sample books are delivered WITH BLANK PAGES.nobody reads the textbooks.it's all bullshit.
(DIR) Post #ASDXh7PGLuxYY6ajom by threalist@social.fbxl.net
2023-01-31T23:30:23.922247Z
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> Everything was a little bit ambiguous–they weren’t _smart_ enough to understand what was meant by “rigor.” They were faking it. They were teaching something they didn’t understand, and which was, in fact, _useless_, at that time, for the child.😒
(DIR) Post #ASDY1lN3TXkOHvP35M by threalist@social.fbxl.net
2023-01-31T23:34:07.055412Z
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> Everything was written by somebody who didn’t know what the hell he was talking about, so it was a little bit wrong, always! And how we are going to teach well by using books written by people who don’t _quite_ understand what they’re talking about, I _cannot_ understand. I don’t know why, but the books are lousy; UNIVERSALLY LOUSY!Now extrapolate this over the entire education system
(DIR) Post #ASDYKPYinNxE8rkglM by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:37:08.712820Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
it honestly feels intentional
(DIR) Post #ASDYrzaTrcRvREaUYi by threalist@social.fbxl.net
2023-01-31T23:43:33.858218Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
Ladies and gentleman, I present to you, public education "experts"> It turned out that the blank book had a rating by some of the other members! They couldn’t believe it was blank, because they had a rating. In fact, the rating for the missing book was a little bit higher than for the two others. The fact that there was nothing in the book had nothing to do with the rating.
(DIR) Post #ASDZ0WudqTtn6x5YvY by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-31T23:44:53.684902Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
We'd be better off letting ChatGPT write textbooks to be honest
(DIR) Post #ASDdqzlCEeMxSIwZ3g by KennyWhitePowers@nicecrew.digital
2023-02-01T00:39:14.221472Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Heated pool my ass
(DIR) Post #ASDfHqvHIgmjot1u76 by epic@gleasonator.com
2023-02-01T00:55:28.170344Z
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@feld @runtimeterror @Moon @ademan Why do they keep calling Sagan Feynman?
(DIR) Post #ASDlmjisidxCBwLDFI by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-02-01T02:07:50.073016Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Oh Jesus fuck I'm retarded and I even have the physical book by my desk that I opened directly to this chapter, then found my digital copy to get the textAnd I still typed the wrong name
(DIR) Post #ASDnFdJZiuWWfXqaH2 by epic@gleasonator.com
2023-02-01T02:24:42.266775Z
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@feld @runtimeterror @Moon @ademan Well, it was a super-interesting thread, so thanks. The really impressive feat is that you edited the post and the replies are still attached. I’ve seen conversations about being able to do that with programmers saying you’ll never be able to do that. But you did that.
(DIR) Post #ASDs9wkX3HWmyiZ1Bg by AnimeMothPussy@poa.st
2023-02-01T02:57:00.519423Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@feld @runtimeterror @Moon @ademan fun read ty