Post ASBOVLi23tEDWtlR9k by angelo@social.veltens.org
(DIR) More posts by angelo@social.veltens.org
(DIR) Post #AS7VAgORsyN0e6rCAi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-29T01:33:45Z
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"If there is a solution to the identity problem then it needs to be lightweight and genuinely decentralized, not requiring proof-of-work or proof-of-stake somewhere in the background. Blockchain stuff is really a fake decentralization, cloaked by mathematical complexity."https://blog.libreserver.org/thoughts-on-web5#identity #blockchains #DID #Web5 #BlueSky #Solid
(DIR) Post #AS7YWPOQ4bp69YtWgC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-29T02:11:19Z
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@bob Have you examined the Jami implemention of DID using a blockchain? Unless every ID look-up is a transaction requiring consensus, surely the cost of mining in ID systems is much lower than in payment systems, because transactions would only happen when IDs are created or change hands?You seem to assume (as do many) that because many uses of blockchain tech have proved unworkable, all uses are unworkable. This seems like an 'all fish are trout' fallacy and I'm not yet convinced.#Jami
(DIR) Post #AS7Yalgr7902Svb3tw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-29T02:11:49Z
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@bob Have you examined the Jami implemention of DID using a blockchain? Unless every ID look-up is a transaction requiring consensus, surely the cost of mining in ID systems is much lower than in payment systems, because transactions would only happen when IDs are created or change hands?You seem to assume (as do many) that because many uses of blockchain tech have proved unworkable, all uses are unworkable. This seems like an 'all fish are trout' fallacy and I'm not yet convinced.#Jami
(DIR) Post #AS8HGOa5orpIwK5q9g by alanz@social.coop
2023-01-29T10:32:37Z
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@strypeyThere is a DID version based on #ssb. It does not have to be tied to heavyweight stuff.
(DIR) Post #AS8bkTgVPKrCXRiMCG by taoeffect@mstdn.io
2023-01-29T14:22:06Z
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@strypey Whoever wrote this doesn’t understand the reasons blockchains are necessary for identity.
(DIR) Post #AS9Yp6eMN6sxqEBbNI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T01:24:08Z
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@taoeffect> blockchains are necessary for identity.I assume you mean *distributed* identity, but even then this claim doesn't really stack up. Both SSB and HoloChain offer ways of doing this without blockchains. Useful, maybe. Necessary, no.
(DIR) Post #AS9ZhlOF7Kg5pdi5GS by smallcircles@social.coop
2023-01-29T09:15:18Z
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@bob @strypey Same here.> This seems like an 'all fish are trout' fallacy and I'm not yet convinced.The IT space is vast and varied, and there are too many things already to fully occupy my thoughts and time. Thus far blockchain has produced mostly (or even exclusively) turd sandwiches.Hence I am quite comfortable to be a late majority if (and only if) something good eventually comes forth. Until then blockchain is a no-go area for me even though people keep telling I should have FOMO.
(DIR) Post #AS9ZhluVBOTxRgnqXw by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-01-29T14:38:13Z
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@smallcircles @bob @strypey I looked into Jami a teeny bit and found this which seems understandble:https://forum.jami.net/t/use-of-blockchain/37Centralized as with most blockchains, altho they say it ain't. Each namespace is a logically centralized resource, altho it can have distributed replica.sBut a single namespace is their reason for being, which is inherently logically centralizing.
(DIR) Post #AS9ZhmQPGm0F2djKHA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T01:33:49Z
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@bhaugen> Centralized as with most blockchains, altho they say it ain'tLogically centralized doesn't have the same implications as actually centralized. In the case of Jami there's one feature of centralization they want (unique, human-readable IDs), which that logical centralization allows, while still offering the benefits of decentralization. Particularly the inability of a central authority to revoke IDs or change who controls them.@smallcircles @bob
(DIR) Post #AS9Zhnpy1E2jQChFku by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-01-29T14:43:26Z
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@smallcircles @bob @strypey Re FOMO: if you understand the tech, you did not really miss out.I worked on distributed transactions for 3 years around 2000. Blockchains were the first practical implementation of global consensus, which was an amazing feat, despite its several downsides.There's other ways to do it, but I give the people devised the designs a lot of respect, while avoiding using their creations as much as possible...
(DIR) Post #AS9aEAEoGjqSA9kPyq by taoeffect@mstdn.io
2023-01-30T01:39:42Z
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@strypey Yes necessary. Required. For domains specifically. SSB doesn’t do what I’m talking about, not sure about HoloChain. More here on why: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IjbzIV5ElCY
(DIR) Post #AS9aTBTByFX8KMdY9Y by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T01:42:29Z
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Granted, a blockchain is not the only way to do this. But if you want Jami, Solid and other projects to consider switching to a different DID architecture, you need to specify alternatives, and offer detailed technical reasons for preferring them. Guilt by association, based on the poor use that's been made of blockchains in other contexts (crypto-scams), seems unlikely to persuade them, and quite frankly, I'd be disappointed and concerned if it did.@bhaugen@smallcircles @bob
(DIR) Post #AS9aZ0zxofFPaXkJqy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T01:43:32Z
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Oh and @bob, if you're so disinterested in discussing it, why blog about it? @bhaugen @smallcircles
(DIR) Post #AS9amnqdVQoQrCxRWC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T01:45:50Z
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Oh and @bob, if you're so disinterested in discussing it, why blog about it? In my experience you've always provided balanced, detailed technical critical, from which I've learnt a lot. I'm surprised and even a bit concerned by your out-of-character replies on this topic.@bhaugen @smallcircles
(DIR) Post #AS9bAf4bmVmiaprz8K by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T01:50:22Z
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@alanz> There is a DID version based on ssbCan you link to any details on this? I find web searches for anything to do with SSB are fruitless so often that I wonder if they've gone full walk-away and abandoned the web entirely to keep their current documentation on SSB-based tools, or Gemini, or somesuch.
(DIR) Post #ASAAbZLUgJhZ2lKkrY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T08:27:26Z
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@taoeffect> Required. For domains specificallyThat's a narrower claim again, one about addressing, not identity. But still, SSB has documents and collections (eg Git repos) on its network that can be addressed and accessed without DNS or a blockchain. So does BitTorrent. So does GnuNet:https://docs.gnunet.org/users/gns.htmlThe only blockchain-based DNS replacement I know of is NameCoin, which was a cool experiment but AFAIK a failure in practice.
(DIR) Post #ASACD1WgyAO973zlNA by alanz@social.coop
2023-01-30T08:45:23Z
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@strypey https://viewer.scuttlebot.io/&5Bne/slGKH/i1361qemVlNBElWInSUfntlWvMXaD4M4=.sha256?hl=zQmdh4Ya6WasmjnS4UMn5ot6k5tbCypy1oyhhdJ6yB6MjfT
(DIR) Post #ASAMB5UWFviwN9h78S by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T10:37:07Z
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@alanzSo is this still a first draft, not yet implemented anywhere? Or have things moved on since that was written?
(DIR) Post #ASAMHazI4AnFnIBsY4 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T10:38:19Z
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Thanks @alanz. Do you know if this still a first draft, not yet implemented anywhere? Or have things moved on since that was written?
(DIR) Post #ASAMNURbJ7JdEnF8qm by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T10:39:23Z
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> There is a DID version based on ssb... https://viewer.scuttlebot.io/&5Bne/slGKH/i1361qemVlNBElWInSUfntlWvMXaD4M4=.sha256?hl=zQmdh4Ya6WasmjnS4UMn5ot6k5tbCypy1oyhhdJ6yB6MjfTThanks @alanz. Do you know if this still a first draft, not yet implemented anywhere? Or have things moved on since that was written?
(DIR) Post #ASBOVLi23tEDWtlR9k by angelo@social.veltens.org
2023-01-30T22:37:28Z
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@strypey identity in #solid is based on #WebID and the Solid-OIDC protocol, there is no blockchain involved
(DIR) Post #ASBPvD5mozk2Hvloum by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T22:53:47Z
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To be clear, I'm not saying blockchains are the only way to do DIDs, or even the best way. I'm just wary of throwing out the baby with the bathwater ;)@bhaugen@smallcircles @bob
(DIR) Post #ASBQgOllDyIi78u8vo by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-01-30T09:36:11.985792Z
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@strypey @taoeffect Also IPFS (IPNS is equivalent of GNS in Gnunet) and HyperCore (formerly DAT).
(DIR) Post #ASBQgPQWmOuW9ZyhTU by taoeffect@mstdn.io
2023-01-30T14:17:12Z
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@kravietz @strypey AFAICT, systems like GNS aren’t different in structure than ICANN. If you want a decentralized global namespace, GNS doesn’t cut it, because it’s centralized. In this case GNU is the center point.
(DIR) Post #ASBQgPueyN0tf24lRQ by taoeffect@mstdn.io
2023-01-30T14:18:42Z
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@kravietz @strypey Namecoin was the first decentralized global namespace. There are others now on that same mission.
(DIR) Post #ASBQgQNjEIGX7Bfyka by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T23:02:16Z
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@taoeffect> There are other... decentralized global namespaceExamples? @kravietz
(DIR) Post #ASBQge0qYAHTOH4u1o by taoeffect@mstdn.io
2023-01-30T14:22:12Z
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@kravietz @strypey This is not “decentralized”, and you cannot have everyone running around being their own ICANN.
(DIR) Post #ASBQgouA3MT9Aj2DdQ by taoeffect@mstdn.io
2023-01-30T14:29:25Z
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@kravietz @strypey I do not see the material difference between something like DNSSEC and GNS, these seem to be essentially the same thing.
(DIR) Post #ASBSL2WYw5WMwujrmq by taoeffect@mstdn.io
2023-01-30T23:20:22Z
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@strypey @kravietz ENS: https://ens.domains/Handshake: https://handshake.org/
(DIR) Post #ASBSN0bP3JspZFwSGm by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T23:19:47Z
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@angelo> identity in #solid is based on #WebID and the Solid-OIDC protocol, there is no blockchain involvedThanks for clarifying. @bob you might want to update your blog piece to correct this.
(DIR) Post #ASBSQtYvAY60tLdNMO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-01-30T23:21:49Z
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@angelo> identity in #solid is based on #WebID and the Solid-OIDC protocol, there is no blockchain involvedThanks for clarifying. @bob you might want to update your blog piece to correct this.