Post AS46nnwseFsx2mdlKa by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AS46ng5RsVzAf2aUZk by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-01-27T06:48:46Z
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Interesting comment from @gruber. He has a point, but I believe this requires nuance.Fediverse services that allow built-in support for quoted boosts -- without any need for a client:1. Misskey / Calckey2. Friendica3. Hubzilla / StreamsThese services have allowed quoted boosts for a long, long time. It's Mastodon that's the outlier here.And I know -- @gruber is specifically referring to Mastodon -- but many people still believe "Mastodon = Fediverse".
(DIR) Post #AS46ngeBnLm6OmqEj2 by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-01-27T06:55:16Z
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And yes, I'm fully aware that I screenshot @gruber's post instead of did a "traditional" quote boost.This is because:1. Native Mastodon won't render a quoted boost.2. A screenshot gives me the opportunity to use alt text, which will embed @gruber's post in my postSo in a way, this is a quoted boost -- albeit a hacky workaround.
(DIR) Post #AS46nh6C7EAzndwbNQ by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-01-27T06:59:20Z
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The only legit argument I've seen on why quoted boosts *shouldn't* exist is that they supposedly cut down on dogpiling and harassment.But that's not a reason to not have quoted boosts.That's a reason to give users the option to opt out of quoted boosts if they don't consent.
(DIR) Post #AS46nhfzy6ofaghCBU by thisismissem@hachyderm.io
2023-01-27T07:51:40Z
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@atomicpoet for the dog piling, there's solutions:• limit depth of quote boosts• limit quote boosts to public posts• allow moderators to temporarily ban accounts from quote boosts• automatically rate limit number of quote boosts• allow a user to disable quote boosts on a post / their account's contentetc. so many ways to encourage good behaviours instead of just say "no, bad, because pile-ons"
(DIR) Post #AS46ni7eJIvyyRdHHc by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-01-27T08:32:41Z
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@thisismissem @atomicpoet Whereas I can't exactly disagree with anything you're proposing, as someone who was constantly being dogpiled on the hellsite for my political views, and was trolled relentlessly for over a year by one particular far-right group, I don't miss QTs at all.I don't understand why some people are so attached to them. It's easy enough to comment on a thread, then share your comment to the TL, or lost directly to your TL with a response to a linked toot. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(DIR) Post #AS46nifgGm9kfzYSKO by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-01-27T08:38:38Z
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@BarrenPlanet @thisismissem There was a study released this month that demonstrated that quoted RTs don't create more or less harassment. Having trouble finding it, but someone else will probably drop the link.But my point is, quoted boosts have existed on the Fediverse for years. If they did what you believe them to do, wouldn't Misskey and Friendica be full of trolls? After all, they allow quoted boosts.Yet, this is not the case.
(DIR) Post #AS46ninpmSg75HMy2K by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-01-27T08:55:09Z
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Some people seem to think Mastodon not having quoted boosts makes it "harder" for them to exist.This is not the case. Consider:1. If quoted boosts are central to my social media service, I'll create a Calckey account. Now it's no longer hard.2. Or I can use a 3rd party client like Icecubes and again to do quoted boosts. Now it's no longer hard.3. If a mass of people all start using Calckey or Icecubes -- instead of the native Mastodon client -- then they'll see quoted boosts.
(DIR) Post #AS46nj96VNgy9FJxBo by BarrenPlanet@c.im
2023-01-27T08:57:02Z
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@atomicpoet @thisismissem Yeah, I saw you post about that study. Interesting. But speaking from my own experience, a lot of the harassment and abuse I got was for my anti-NATO, anti-US imperialism views. It would only take one American right-winger with a largish account to QT me to their stateside followers, and that was it. I could be firefighting for days, unable to block the trolls faster than they appeared in my mentions. The sorts of brainwashed war hawks who saw any criticism of NATO as pro-Putin (I loathe Putin).Oftentimes, I'd end up deleting the tweet because I couldn't be bothered with the aggro.
(DIR) Post #AS46njh8SqujqnF8Ea by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-01-27T09:06:04Z
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@BarrenPlanet @thisismissem The problem, as I see it, is social -- not technological. Whether or not vanilla Mastodon allows quoted boosts, that feature still exists. What doesn't exist is a social convention that basically says, "This person does not want to be quoted -- so we're going to scrub both the embed and URL if you try it."And malicious accounts should be banned should they go around the opt-out with a screenshot. For now, there's no repercussions for undesirable quote boosts.
(DIR) Post #AS46nkFsNghfaXUsNs by mathias@friendica.hellquist.eu
2023-01-27T09:28:57Z
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@atomicpoetAlso, a couple of things with quote posts differ fundamentally between Fediverse services that has it, and Twitter. The most obvious one is of course lack of algorithm in the Fediverse, which is The Major cause for all Twitter issues.Secondly, we (in the Fediverse) have an opportunity to ”do it right”. We can define how it should work for ourselves. If we see someone doing a thing incorrectly, or in a bad way, we don’t HAVE to do it the same way, we can re-define how it is done. The services that do quote posts which I have tried (mainly Friendica and Akkoma in my case) both alert the original poster of that they have been quoted, just as if I would have boosted their post. They can see it, they get a notification of it. It doesn’t happen ”in secret”.However, all the current ”work-arounds” that people have to do for quotes to work today can happen in ”secret”, and doesn’t alert the original poster. If I take a screenshot of a post and post it as a new thread to my followers only, that if anything invites to bad behaviour, as you can talk about someone who isn’t there.If the original poster is ”in the room” though, people usually watch what/how they say things.I see no bigger risk for abuse in the Fediverse with quote posts than I do with ”just regular” posting.@thisismissem @BarrenPlanet
(DIR) Post #AS46nkQVk9D67WTMxc by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-01-27T09:16:11Z
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Also to address the question of "Why not make quoted boosts an opt-in thing?"Because that train left the station long ago!No service currently offers opt-in or opt-out. And even now, Mastodon still allows quoted boosts -- they just render it without the embed.Opt-in can't work because, for services that already have quoted boosts, it's become so core that asking people to re-allow it in settings is out of the question.But opt-out is still possible -- and less of an inconvenience!
(DIR) Post #AS46nm4xbF9zFGPBeC by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-01-27T09:31:39Z
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Let me emphasize this again: just because Mastodon doesn’t render quoted boosts doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And lack of rendering doesn’t mean that your use of Mastodon constitutes consent on whether quoted boosts happen. There’s nothing in the Mastodon Covenant that touches on quoted boosts. Does that mean someone has a right to be a dick and quote boost you without your consent?No!But it does mean there should be a mechanism that explicitly let’s you say, “Don’t quote boost me!”
(DIR) Post #AS46nnwseFsx2mdlKa by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
2023-01-27T09:47:33Z
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So @mathias makes a good point about why Friendica’s implementation of quoted boosts is better than Mastodon’s:1. Mastodon does not render quoted boosts and therefore does not notify the people quoted that it has happened2. Friendica renders quoted boosts and notifies the people quoted when it happensWhich means that if someone’s harassing you through quoted boosts, Friendica makes you aware of it happening—and can therefore report the offender to their instance.