Post AS2ztD4ll9enaM06eO by ademan@thebag.social
(DIR) More posts by ademan@thebag.social
(DIR) Post #AS2wBWZtafnnSw2NWK by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T20:42:47.766782Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@alan For a while we didn’t implement local-only posts because the implementation in Pleroma was broken. It was essentially a “DM yourself” option.Even now after the issue is fixed, I’m hesitant. Not because of Gargron’s reasons, but because 4 privacy scopes are already a total disaster. Can you tell me what the difference is between Unlisted and Private? Why is it that when I reply to a Followers-Only post of your followers, my post is set to Followers-Only of my followers?IMO we have bigger tofu to fry. I don’t think shoveling more shit into that pile of shit is going to improve the situation.Also, I suspect what people really want is Groups, and they’re looking to local-only posting as a short-term substitute for the thing they actually want.
(DIR) Post #AS2wLVIFDoTwNRXWRk by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-26T20:44:41.564457Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan what actually is unlisted i never bothered to learn
(DIR) Post #AS2wNlhFCpfHpWJSqm by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-01-26T20:45:08.826500Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
>Also, I suspect what people really want is Groups, and they’re looking to local-only posting as a short-term substitute for the thing they actually want.GS had it but it was a very jank hack.https://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2016/193/GNU-Social/(offset)/3
(DIR) Post #AS2wQw4l4YvwtCp0iG by hj@shigusegubu.club
2023-01-26T20:45:25.533785Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon @alan @alex i'm STILL not sure what unlisted is
(DIR) Post #AS2wcA9R54E5jGMZdI by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T20:47:41.160353Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon @alan Unlisted hides your post from Local and Federated timelines, which doesn’t make sense. And it especially doesn’t make sense that it’s a visibility option only for one specific feature, the feature of which also isn’t a good design.I want to remove the Unlisted option, but the 5 people who use it will cry and scream.
(DIR) Post #AS2whoEVU8FLULQZ84 by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T20:47:47.587306Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Unlisted won’t post your message to any public timelines.
(DIR) Post #AS2wholpUEtx9h1B4K by hj@shigusegubu.club
2023-01-26T20:48:20.082617Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@alan @alex @Moon the fuck is a public timeline then?
(DIR) Post #AS2wm0URr5UAf4sy4e by graf@poa.st
2023-01-26T20:49:34.461504Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan @Moon unlisted is a moderation nightmare. so is the bot tag with ForceBotsUnlisted MRF. I think users setting that themselves should be fully removed
(DIR) Post #AS2wmGYE8o10TQmDBY by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-26T20:49:31.634050Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan get rid of that shit youo have my seal of approval
(DIR) Post #AS2wmbucijPMiyPtVg by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2023-01-26T20:49:40.199715Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
It's what you'd call a false sense of security, a very common mindset in the fedi unfortunately. The same people who think it's the best idea also tend to be the ones screaming at anyone who makes a fedi scraper, thinking that someone adjacent to KF or some "osint researchers" won't just make one and release it publicly/share it to their buddies.
(DIR) Post #AS2wzpa5DCCusj74L2 by pomstan@xn--p1abe3d.xn--80asehdb
2023-01-26T20:51:59.806500Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@hj @alan @alex @Moon twkn and instance timeline?
(DIR) Post #AS2xDKQnp37AKKCyZs by Flick@spinster.xyz
2023-01-26T20:54:31.723343Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @Moon @alan I’ve seen twitterdon types including in their lists of “rules” that one should only let the first post of a thread be listed, with subsequent replies-to-yourself being unlisted so as to avoid clogging up the timeline. (Of course, they could get around that by not having stupidly small character limits, so, y’know.)This seems to me to be a pretty good reason for getting rid of it.
(DIR) Post #AS2xF5N0n3qeC8GzIm by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T20:51:02.367653Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
This is one.
(DIR) Post #AS2xF5lpInhJR5snyq by hj@shigusegubu.club
2023-01-26T20:54:31.038858Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alan @alex @Moon yeah what about twkn? what about searches and tag timelines? user profile?
(DIR) Post #AS2xHJyhRvza4yy2Cm by hj@shigusegubu.club
2023-01-26T20:54:57.205852Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan @Moon since when you care about those 5 people?
(DIR) Post #AS2xMFmCUxoWUpTNCq by a1ba@suya.place
2023-01-26T20:56:07.334816Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon @alan @alex unlisted makes sense because it's a good middle choice between followers only and being visible to the whole fedi.For example, unlisted help against strangers in replies who read TWKN all the time, which is itself not a very healthy habit. Meanwhile, local only are a complete nonsense in the federated network and shouldn't even exist in the backend.
(DIR) Post #AS2xPFnirbY7RPcDOy by opal@ap.maladaptive.art
2023-01-26T20:56:39.264247Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan i think the followers-only scope is the easiest thing to fix>Groupsgnusocial !groups or something like circles?
(DIR) Post #AS2xdKTiGpGU09y3uq by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-26T20:58:46.800744Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
there should be a posting feature where all replies written by yourself to yourself should be unlisted and then people always enter your thread from the parent when browsing their timeline. If you do it right you can put those also always under your parent post and then it looks like that Twitter thread behaviorMore useful for people that don't like long posting
(DIR) Post #AS2xilJ3x1z8eiZobQ by opal@ap.maladaptive.art
2023-01-26T21:00:11.170242Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan @Moon i wont cry if its done properly, but right now if i go back to posting public all the time then i would see trolls in my mentions again
(DIR) Post #AS2xu7AZ0PUVeE0y5w by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T21:02:08.315272Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@opal @alan @Moon An alternative solution to that is this:
(DIR) Post #AS2yOnGh30Wsu1ViiG by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T21:07:40.602732Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@e @alan @Moon Crucify me, but I think we should have algorithms. Having a single feed of ALL posts is not beneficial to anyone. We want to show posts of people you want to see. If we solve that problem and give people a good discovery feed, the federated timeline becomes outdated and we don’t need privacy scopes to revolve around them anymore.
(DIR) Post #AS2yTreeAOGNxF8Hdw by opal@ap.maladaptive.art
2023-01-26T21:08:41.132461Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan @Moon no actually what im doing right now works fine
(DIR) Post #AS2yVjbp3Cvfa4hfLU by meso@asbestos.cafe
2023-01-26T21:09:03.105562Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan @e @Moon i dont get why you think algorithms are good i don't mind a time-based timeline and i see nothing wrong with it. please don't fuck this up
(DIR) Post #AS2yWlaz9OHs20ntvU by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-26T21:09:03.989639Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan @e we will eventually get algorithms if the network keeps getting more popular, i always felt the "no algorithms" thing was only viable because everybody switched to a smaller network
(DIR) Post #AS2yceuQvHij21i5Pk by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T21:10:12.584480Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@meso @alan @e @Moon I don’t even know how to do it, so don’t worry.
(DIR) Post #AS2ydV7KoYwCx697k8 by ademan@thebag.social
2023-01-26T21:10:27.487571Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
it’s a simple signal to noise problem, I miss a bunch of posts from @mu I want to see because he posts fairly rarely and I follow hundreds of people, many of who post constantly. Likewise, I shit up a lot of people’s feeds and probably bury good content for others.
(DIR) Post #AS2yex9a3uD8C7tBjs by graf@poa.st
2023-01-26T21:10:42.651013Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan @Moon crucify me but i think we should have the federated timeline and a discovery timeline so people can have everything
(DIR) Post #AS2yh1dSMyAEfqqr4q by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-26T21:10:59.237548Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan @e the nuanced opinion i think is "I want _non-evil_ algorithms that tweak a basically chronological timeline"
(DIR) Post #AS2ykHlaqmhJZaDCnw by meso@asbestos.cafe
2023-01-26T21:11:41.494430Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @alan akkoma has it
(DIR) Post #AS2yl8srMV0AJT1FzM by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T21:11:39.131549Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Isn’t that where the Lists feature would be useful to you?
(DIR) Post #AS2yns5SGiUf5TDCaG by MercurialBlack@leafposter.club
2023-01-26T21:12:19.846898Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
If there'd be some way to have filters such that you can choose which users posts you wanna see at any given time that'd be cool. Like, being able to make a 'shitposter' group and seeing all their posts, and a 'politics' group and see all their posts, while seeing everyone on your main timeline.Could always make multiple accounts but seems needlessly cumbersome.
(DIR) Post #AS2ytnaJv8FQrTTX96 by ademan@thebag.social
2023-01-26T21:13:23.808524Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
It is, and I do use it actually, but I don’t think it’s something most users are going to invest time into maintaining. It’s also not quite the same since a list filters people, whereas an algorithmic feed filters posts.
(DIR) Post #AS2yzA4bjhkA3YCPRo by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T21:14:16.241468Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@e @meso @alan @Moon We should be working together more. But I don’t think I can stand doing so much code in the database 😆
(DIR) Post #AS2z0CfLaB9wO1sebA by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T21:14:27.125909Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
There is: Lists.
(DIR) Post #AS2z28pmncoN59ggWu by MercurialBlack@leafposter.club
2023-01-26T21:14:55.064151Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Holy shit so *that's* what lists are for. Just discovered they exist and had no idea that's what they did. Fuck me in the ass thanks
(DIR) Post #AS2z53yZJqNqsoBkqe by meso@asbestos.cafe
2023-01-26T21:15:25.912850Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@e @alan @alex @Moon if i was in the mood and knew the system i was working on very well i could probably do a bit of research into how platforms already do this, maybe papers they publish (e.g. Google's creators published a paper on PageRank, it's probably not really relevant to social media recommendation but it is a problem in another domain that the paper was useful for)
(DIR) Post #AS2z6UenbYS5vGcitE by Erik@social.uden.ai
2023-01-26T21:14:33.697042Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
I’ve had people ask for an algorithm too, but only as long as the chronological timeline always remains an option and if every instance can install their algorithm like a plugin.
(DIR) Post #AS2z7OZlhRhbLshUp6 by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T21:15:45.705128Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Erik @meso @alan @e @Moon At this rate I don’t think we’ll ever remove that timeline, but a good goal is to create something so much better that people don’t want to use the other thing anymore.
(DIR) Post #AS2z8n9tmrhdsqGZ4y by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T21:15:57.039898Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
You’re more than welcome but I’ll leave fucking you in the ass until after you’ve bought me dinner, k? 🤣
(DIR) Post #AS2zGOThQuOxee9Wpk by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-26T21:17:11.469464Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
It shouldn't be hard to track your own favorites, boosts, and thread views and extract some words from the post and compare to your past activityit can't automagically serve you content you didn't ask for but it can show you recent posts you've received that you're more likely to engage with
(DIR) Post #AS2za9T0xAj8tGFmL2 by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T21:15:02.258074Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Any other solution would need regular curating though 🤷🏻
(DIR) Post #AS2za9x998pWOiLqIy by ademan@thebag.social
2023-01-26T21:21:02.568026Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
What do you mean? Algorithmic feeds can be trained by your interactions, it would be curated automatically.Obviously, not creating an outrage interaction feed is important, so at minimum it should be optional. Ideally, it could be totally user controlled instead (explicit more like this/less like this buttons).
(DIR) Post #AS2zb4AC9oXejOt3Q0 by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T21:21:04.939476Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@feld @alan @e @Moon Ultimately we want suggested profiles, suggested hashtags, and suggested posts, and the data to figure out these things could overlap. For example a suggested feed could show you posts from suggested accounts.
(DIR) Post #AS2zgrReMCod1UoYy0 by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T21:18:49.057360Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
I think an algorithm is a slippery slope. Can an algorithm truly work properly for that purpose?
(DIR) Post #AS2zoqH8abWjiEhenw by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T21:23:38.071841Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@e @alan @feld @Moon Water is bad because you can drown in it. And if you drink too much, it’ll poison you.
(DIR) Post #AS2ztCadZBYQ4tu2gS by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T21:22:29.131575Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
But wouldn’t there be a risk that it would get things wrong sometimes? Seeing stuff you wouldn’t usually be bothered seeing is one thing, but if you start missing things you do want to see, that’s an entirely different matter.
(DIR) Post #AS2ztD4ll9enaM06eO by ademan@thebag.social
2023-01-26T21:24:29.507009Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
This is the status quo, I miss things I want to seeYes it would be imperfect, I don’t think that’s an argument against it. These are social media posts not financial transactions.
(DIR) Post #AS2zx0SebROZcTz00O by billstclair@impeccable.social
2023-01-26T21:24:43.686992Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@alex @meso @alan @e @Moon @Erik The Twitter algorithm is interesting, because it shows you posts you wouldn't otherwise see. In Mastodon/Soapbox, the best you can do is the Federated/Fediverse feed, but that shows you everything, instead. of just posts related to people you follow, so it's too much on a big server. Twitter made a good choice, IMHO, to have "For you" (algorithm) and "Following" feeds, but I think it's still nice to have the firehose, Federated/Fediverse feed.
(DIR) Post #AS2zyp4RvIB0s8WlSy by alex@gleasonator.com
2023-01-26T21:25:19.784418Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@abid @feld @alan @e @Moon I’m talking about a separate “discovery” feed from your home feed. If the home feed gets an algorithm, it should have the option to be chronological.
(DIR) Post #AS2zyyCZyR1lBxOst6 by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-26T21:25:09.282564Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
Your email has a spam filter. It's an algorithm that decides which content you want to receive based on many points of data it derived from the message and past behavior. The only thing it doesn't do is reorder your inbox.This is not so different. Stop making algorithms the boogeyman. The problem is too much noise. The algorithm finds the signal so you don't have to waste your time.
(DIR) Post #AS3037jmSlI3vLuWoq by abid@microblog.club
2023-01-26T21:23:40.220729Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Uhmm that sound like algorithmic... Suggested profiles is very good thing, but suggested feed would be like forcing to see something user don't follow
(DIR) Post #AS3038LiBjdDozeowS by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-26T21:26:03.888211Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
You'd make it another timeline, not the default one. Use it for discovery
(DIR) Post #AS30Fcjv1UtNYCw58C by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-26T21:28:10.821528Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Oh that's funny Alex and I both suggested "discovery". It seems like an apt name.
(DIR) Post #AS30JOHIjV2VrDLX0q by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T21:28:14.347828Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
So instead of “known network”, it would be “suggestions’?
(DIR) Post #AS30JOib60sFDs7KYi by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-26T21:29:01.627387Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
I'd just call it Discover or For You
(DIR) Post #AS30WGuvPatOnC1RZ2 by Moon@shitposter.club
2023-01-26T21:31:27.964327Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@feld @alan @alex @e @abid named after the shittiest star trek, nice
(DIR) Post #AS30YCasSO9rxlZ7ya by alan@blimey.social
2023-01-26T21:30:52.427300Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
How about “Pandora’s box’?No, wait… that’s “known network” 😂
(DIR) Post #AS30c7TVQleFFGzAiu by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-01-26T21:32:16.496973Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Hell even just adding in a bog standard Bayesian filter based on favorites and mutes and using it as a timeline filter would be great. I'm shocked nobody has done this yet but it would make the Known Network so much more interesting on huge servers.
(DIR) Post #AS31zWhPufyK5lDY2K by maxmustermann@shitposter.club
2023-01-26T21:48:02.896533Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@PhenomX6 @alan @alex Also gargron rejected using Exclamation marks for denoting groups.