Post AS04CoonTWZkUBFuds by Gargron@mastodon.social
 (DIR) More posts by Gargron@mastodon.social
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBUL3RAIUplCvtQ by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T01:22:15Z
       
       1 likes, 1 repeats
       
       Just installed @icecubesapp, which like @ivory, is an iOS app  for Mastodon that was released today. Unlike @ivory, @icecubesapp is open source. It also has a wildly different UI/UX. Here’s screenshots of @icecubesapp!
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBUn3l2hOEcJIXo by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T01:25:18Z
       
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       One neat aspect about @icecubesapp is how you can drill down your notifications by type. For example, you can find posts that have been edited. Super useful!
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBVL5iVv9wAETaa by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T01:27:29Z
       
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       Wanna know about @icecubesapp’s open source bonafides? There’s a link to their Git repo in settings!
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBVs3jwIBaPenya by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T01:32:15Z
       
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       These two icons in @icecubesapp are fascinating. If you touch the number of posts icon, you get all of them. If you click the icon on the right, it will deliver fresh new posts one-by-one.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBWOfmgNdDYuqoK by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T01:35:46Z
       
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       Hey, look! @icecubesapp supports quoted boosts!This is what so many of you wanted!cc: @taylorlorenz
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBX21QNr7BbKH8y by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T01:40:56Z
       
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       I bet you’re curious about this icon in @icecubesapp  What does it do? It improves your post through some sort of predictive A.I. magic. Many of you might not like that feature. However, some of you might find it to be a game changer if you struggle at composing a post. Personally, I don’t mind it.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBXV5gJ6kdkvUS8 by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T01:45:01Z
       
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       I’m noticing a trend. Just like with @ivory, @icecubesapp renames #Explore as “Trending”. 🤔
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBXzvpdmIBPM7Wa by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T01:49:09Z
       
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       Don’t like your local timeline? With @icecubesapp, you can add a local timeline of a remote instance. Unfortunately, I’ve only been able to get this to work for Mastodon. Pleroma and Misskey aren’t recognized even though they are part of the Fediverse. Why is it like this? There’s no reason to limit to Mastodon. 😡
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBYV7xejPk9x29I by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T01:55:01Z
       
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       It’s nice that @icecubesapp lets me add my self-hosted Mastodon instance. It’s not so nice that I can’t add my Pleroma instance without a perpetual spinning. This is annoying. These mobile devs need to understand that the Fediverse is bigger than Mastodon.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBZ25z56ROPNMXI by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T02:02:21Z
       
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       Okay, @icecubesapp puts Explore in as the center icon. When you press it, it has lots of discoverability available. I like this quite a bit. Should keep lots of users engaged for awhile. You see suggested tags, suggested users, suggested posts, and suggested news.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBZaptutN89d6ga by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T02:11:44Z
       
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       Having spent the past hour using @icecubesapp, I'm excited.To me, this is *the* best iOS app. Not as sleek as @ivory, but it's got a much more innovative UI/UX -- and stuff that really extends the basic functionality of Mastodon.And as much as I complain that @icecubesapp doesn't recognize the Fediverse beyond Mastodon, the fact this is open source gives me optimism that this may change in the future.This is good now, but it *will* also get better over time!
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBa1mHkRWTiEcgC by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T02:14:46Z
       
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       On the other hand, while it's exciting that @icecubesapp and @ivory are building upon the ecosystem of Fediverse apps, I'm wondering if these developers are being myopic about what the Fediverse entails.Mastodon is not the Fediverse.By limiting your apps to Mastodon, you are limiting the Fediverse.I hope developers fix this myopia!
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBaelwldQQeTlSa by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T02:18:31Z
       
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       Yeah, I'm excited about the growth of the Fediverse ecosystem and I'm indeed optimistic about where this is going.However, I hope we also have the good sense to critique the current ecosystem as it exists now.Decentralization of social media becomes less feasible if app developers keep centralizing on Mastodon.We can't let Mastodon become the Fediverse's bottleneck.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzJBb50NEcPk0kiLg by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T02:40:45Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       Someone asked me, "Why use 3rd party apps when an official Mastodon app exists?"It comes down to this: being open source, Mastodon is built for choice.Some people like vanilla ice cream. Others like strawberry or chocolate.Well, some people like vanilla Mastodon. Others like strawberry @icecubesapp or chocolate @ivory.The fact Mastodon allows 3rd party apps is one large reason it's better than Twitter.It's nice that we all get to choose our preferred flavour of the Fediverse!
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzRMnAyXW3c4lOVSC by jaredwhite@indieweb.social
       2023-01-25T02:23:21Z
       
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       @atomicpoet I honestly don't think this is much of a concern at the relatively small size of the total network. Wake me up when Mastodon hits 50M!(I also find the UX of all the other Fediverse platforms to be sorely lacking. Not trying to throw shade, just being honest. There's a *reason* Mastodon has become popular. And even Mastodon has plenty of room to grow here.)
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzRMnhaaG93hueYHw by karstenbondy@im-in.space
       2023-01-25T03:42:04Z
       
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       @jaredwhite @atomicpoet This time 1000. The rest of the #Fediverse is not ready for the kind or amount of users the #twittermigration has brought #Mastodon. And the "but the Fediverse" talk misses the point.The world needs a #Twitter replacement. Twitter could go down in the next few months from bankruptcy or attacks. Devs need to focus their efforts on improving Mastodon's UX and stability.(Case in point: this is the 2nd time I've typed this. I got this far in Tusky and it crashed, just like it and the Mastodon app and website do 70% of the time my posts get longer than 500 characters.)The horde of refugees that crashed servers and needed to be taught Mastodon fediquette in November-December will seem like a ripple compared to the wave of noobs Mastodon will get if Twitter goes down for real. They won't need 15 microblogging platforms, 8 image hosters, 6 macrobloggers, 3 video sites, 2 book catalogs, and a new Reddit. They will need Mastodon. Let's get it ready for them.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzRMoEuaMnfNGFAEC by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T03:44:05Z
       
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       @karstenbondy @jaredwhite There's more than one Twitter replacement for the Fediverse.For example, have you tried Pleroma?In many ways, it scales better than Mastodon.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzRNe1w1rJk04ZXDk by derek_knitter@mas.to
       2023-01-25T01:52:38Z
       
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       @atomicpoet @icecubesapp @ivory@tapbots.social so I’m fine with getting schooled, but why exactly is open-source better or desirable?  I am happy to pay @ivory for the work they did on their software
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzRNeViF98XUQVJdQ by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T02:26:02Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @derek_knitter @icecubesapp @ivory@tapbots.social @ivory@mas.to You can pay for open source as well.If you want to know why proprietary software is not so desirable, just look at how Twitter locked @tapbots out of their API.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzSdJ9XWBOBq0A640 by gruber@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T04:13:40Z
       
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       @atomicpoet Have you written code to speak with both Mastodon and Pleroma servers? Perhaps it’s quite a bit of work to support both. And over never heard of Pleroma before. It seems glaring obvious why these 1.0 apps are Mastodon-only. Mastodon is where the action is.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzSdKRIjdBtpNTnO4 by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T04:25:35Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @gruber Some developers have already built mobile apps with Fediverse interoperability in mind.For example, here's one: https://github.com/caraesten/FedilabFedilab supports Mastodon, Pleroma, Peertube, GNU Social, Friendica and Pixelfed -- and it's open source!More to the point, ActivityPub was created with interoperability in mind. I get that these are Web 1.0 apps -- and I appreciate what they're building.But the goal of the Fediverse (including Mastodon) is the de-centralization of social media.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzTrRHuAYcd4mNQP2 by patrickstewart@thetaoist.online
       2023-01-25T04:07:11Z
       
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       @atomicpoet @icecubesapp @ivory so would you rather an app be more like a jack of all trades? Or is it the branding that you're unhappy with? Do you think it's possible for an app to be created for all major Fediverse platforms at once? I mean the Tapbots guys made 1 app for 12 years for 1 platform. It was an amazing app yes, but I think what you're asking for isn't possible unless you just want them to make a web browser. Now THAT would be cool
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzTrRn6IZZkdWyL1k by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T04:11:56Z
       
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       @patrickstewart @icecubesapp @ivory I think the Fediverse was built with interoperability in mind.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzTrSCGmzhztakRG4 by patrickstewart@thetaoist.online
       2023-01-25T04:14:23Z
       
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       @atomicpoet @icecubesapp @ivory So is a web browser. Native apps though? Not so much. I agree that they SHOULD be. But like someone above me in the thread stated, starting points. More to come I hope soon.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzTrSispjnRWk0U5o by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T04:30:59Z
       
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       @patrickstewart @icecubesapp @ivory That's where I'm coming from. I appreciate what's built now, but let's not forget the ultimate purpose of the Fediverse: decentralization of social media.Centralizing on Mastodon is anathema to that goal.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzczflr6XwztmO31M by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T04:42:52Z
       
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       @gruber Some developers have already built mobile apps with Fediverse interoperability in mind.For example, here's one: https://github.com/caraesten/FedilabFedilab supports Mastodon, Pleroma, Peertube, GNU Social, Friendica and Pixelfed -- and it's open source!More to the point, ActivityPub was created with interoperability in mind. I get that these are 1.0 apps -- and I appreciate what they're building.But the goal of the Fediverse (including Mastodon) is the de-centralization of social media.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzczgMMun9pj1TCvw by gruber@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T06:15:24Z
       
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       @atomicpoet But the goal of these new apps is just be good clients for popular services people actually use.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzczgnJIchz4a4ivY by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T06:23:06Z
       
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       @gruber Sure, and what's the service?It's as much the Fediverse as it is Mastodon. After all, you *can* run Mastodon without the Fediverse. Essentially, that's what Truth Social is. Further, another thought for you: while Mastodon is the main service people are using now, what will happen when Tumblr joins the Fediverse? Or Flickr? Or Post? That's going to happen this year!Or what will happen if there's a user migration from Instagram—like there just was with Twitter? That's feasible!
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzmldS1vpWqBw3i8u by berkes@bitcoinhackers.org
       2023-01-25T07:35:12Z
       
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       @atomicpoet the Irony is that #ActivityPub solves this (in theory). It has an entire part on client-server communication. Basically how your app should talk to your instance.Yet. Mastodon never implemented this. Instead it built a custom "#REST" API. And then all the alternatives, from #pleroma to #gotosocial reimplement that #API, bug-for-bug. And all clients (apps, frontend, bots) use that.Mastodon is unwillingly, unkowingly doing a vendor lock in.
       
 (DIR) Post #ARzmldxE3qTxkgeclc by smallcircles@social.coop
       2023-01-25T07:51:10Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @berkes @atomicpoet Question that fedi devs should ask: "Knowing about this lock-in trend, do we allow ourselves to be locked in?"However immature it still is and regardless how hard it has proven to collaborate at an ecosystem level, there is a standardization process in the form of #Fediverse Enhancement Proposals: https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fepIf everyone builds on top of #Mastodon there will not be many incentives for them to adhere to #FEP docs. They'll set their own course: #Microblogging.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS03mrF1qMvOTJ980O by b@is-he.re
       2023-01-25T06:36:37.442734Z
       
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       @atomicpoet I made an app[1] supporting all Mastodon, Pleroma and Misskey. API differences between mastodon and pleroma are small and should be easy to implement, but finding out the differences is difficult, I had to poke every little corner to make sure it gets right. As for misskey, everything is different, they actually started before mastodon and didn’t support activitypub for the first few years, so the incompatibility is not surprising[1]: https://b123400.net/tootrain/
       
 (DIR) Post #AS04CoonTWZkUBFuds by Gargron@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T06:29:59Z
       
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       @atomicpoet @gruber You can run Mastodon without the fediverse. It is just Mastodon. It's decentralized with or without other software being present, and in fact predates & is the inspiration for most fediverse software that's around today.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS04CpGRoih3rwBzk0 by dimillian@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T07:13:57Z
       
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       @Gargron @atomicpoet @gruber  BTW. Ice cubes support for other kind of server is coming… I guess. But also I have « For Mastodon » in the app name on the App Store so 🤷‍♂️
       
 (DIR) Post #AS04Fz83b4RRKfm3sG by NomadicNerd@mindly.social
       2023-01-25T09:51:52Z
       
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       @atomicpoet no idea what else entails the fediverse besides mastodon. Getting an account here was the first time I’d even heard of a fediverse and for most twitter escapees it’s all we have the apps  for
       
 (DIR) Post #AS04FzZhwGYkiQi8yO by clacke@libranet.de
       2023-01-25T10:00:17Z
       
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       "The many branches of the Fediverse"https://axbom.com/fediverse//by @axbom 
       
 (DIR) Post #AS04FzyATK7pwI9g6C by NomadicNerd@mindly.social
       2023-01-25T10:10:34Z
       
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       @clacke the only one of those I’ve heard of is WordPress (but never used) and that was something that my youngest sister used to use a long time ago for website design I think
       
 (DIR) Post #AS04G0WuO9ulg2PQFU by NomadicNerd@mindly.social
       2023-01-25T10:15:50Z
       
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       @clacke well. Except for mastodon obviously and I had only heard of it a few months ago. In order for the developers to feel the need to add accessibility to the other items in that picture, there would have to be a lot more promotion or exposure of the other platforms. Given the influx of twitter users like myself, I’m sure the vast majority of us haven’t heard of those either and wouldn’t use them without more info
       
 (DIR) Post #AS04G0zcfOsp75qM0O by atomicpoet@mastodon.social
       2023-01-25T10:22:36Z
       
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       @NomadicNerd @clacke In a way, you already use those apps—through Mastodon. People on Friendica (for example) send you messages. And you send messages to Pleroma. It's just that you never need to leave Mastodon to do this. But it also works the other way. Many people who talk to you use other services.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS04G1cGLjn92vvDEW by luca@sironi.tk
       2023-01-25T10:31:10.717283Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @atomicpoet @NomadicNerd @clacke hello from a pleroma instance!
       
 (DIR) Post #AS0mCXRCUYFcZ1tYxs by nus@mstdn.social
       2023-01-25T08:43:54Z
       
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       @Vampir001 @atomicpoet I didn't know you knew!Maybe the site is broken, maybe it's cut itself off from the rest of the Fediverse. I read somewhere that they defederated from another far right one because of porn spam or something.Speaking of actually bad people, the Gab frontend got adapted for a TERF site by a self-hating, male feminist, vegan. Which are the REAL red flags, apparently
       
 (DIR) Post #AS0mCXxoXIL4CB9bnc by meso@asbestos.cafe
       2023-01-25T19:41:41.947504Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @nus @Vampir001 @atomicpoet we all know about Gleason, he has a transgender fanbase. he himself is just an egg in denial :) maybe one day he will finally transition
       
 (DIR) Post #AS0mDJ3nQs3CGLJY9I by meso@asbestos.cafe
       2023-01-25T19:41:50.909848Z
       
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       @nus @Vampir001 @atomicpoet she8
       
 (DIR) Post #AS0meZFxK7wgJS07jU by nus@mstdn.social
       2023-01-25T19:45:38Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @meso @Vampir001 @atomicpoet I find it hard to believe anybody likes him, "tolerates" seems to be about as good as it gets.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS0meZgBkavfcoH4ca by meso@asbestos.cafe
       2023-01-25T19:46:46.363872Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @nus @Vampir001 @atomicpoet he's a nice person when you remove the transphobic part of his brain :) alex gleason lobotomy arc
       
 (DIR) Post #AS0n2sPHm3qEemxM00 by nus@mstdn.social
       2023-01-25T19:50:52Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @meso @Vampir001 @atomicpoet you're too kind, I don't think I'd be able to suffer him even if we agreed on everything. But I know about plenty of open source related drama that would elicit the same shrug. Like whatever's going on with Graphene OS developers.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS0n5vP95L1up5LPWK by meso@asbestos.cafe
       2023-01-25T19:51:43.161001Z
       
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       @nus @Vampir001 @atomicpoet what's going on with them? I remember it was just Techlore and CalyxOS community being mad at them, anything new?
       
 (DIR) Post #AS2QJc3VuYyiEohhx2 by KevinMarks@xoxo.zone
       2023-01-26T13:51:52Z
       
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       @m @user8e8f87c @berkes @clacke @rmdes Berkes is making the classic mistake that standards are legislation there. A proper standardisation process documents and converges implementations rather than defining something first. The AP process did not complete this for the client to server protocol, so it has not been adopted.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS2QJca7xJ49rxxkmm by berkes@bitcoinhackers.org
       2023-01-26T13:57:05Z
       
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       @KevinMarks @m @user8e8f87c @clacke @rmdes It's a circular argument, though: it has not been adopted, because no-one adopts it, so no-one will adopt it.How can we break out of this? Not by keeping re-implementing and reverse-engineering the Mastodon API, that's for sure.Maybe this API can be used as basis for a standard, but I think its i) far too narrow for that, ii) way too tightly coupled to the databasemodel and implementation of Mastodon and iii) poorly thought out and lacking details.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS2QJd4y6djhPcONrE by feld@bikeshed.party
       2023-01-26T14:45:43.603795Z
       
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       ActivityPub C2S is missing a lot of functionality IIRC@lanodan knows more
       
 (DIR) Post #AS2Sl55gGfgC10wXcu by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
       2023-01-26T15:12:43.929183Z
       
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       @feld @user8e8f87c @berkes @clacke @rmdes @m @KevinMarks Yeah, see https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/activitypub-client-to-server-faq/1941And taking even the short roadmap on Ivory's website, AP C2S doesn't handles:- Hashtags search- Listing custom emojisAdditionally Pleroma's AP C2S implementation doesn't handles:- Posts Edition- Profile Edition- Hashtag following- Timeline filtering (simple inbox only, no home timeline vs. notifications for example)
       
 (DIR) Post #AS2v9XAYJzPMlYfclE by erincandescent@queer.af
       2023-01-26T20:21:38Z
       
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       @lanodan @user8e8f87c @feld @clacke @rmdes @m @KevinMarks Re: Custom Emojis, the way Mastodon decided to implement those has always felt hella wonky to me. I always intended that you'd just stuff an img tag in the message or something...Re: Search/Hashtag following/etc, that's definitely missing.Re: Timeline filteringI always expected that to be done on the client (that's how I did it for the pump.io client I built 9 years ago)That's not to say it's not missing things, but its also missing less than some people seem to think.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS2v9Xmq1e26gIaCR6 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
       2023-01-26T20:30:51.486176Z
       
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       @erincandescent @user8e8f87c @feld @clacke @rmdes @m @KevinMarks > I always intended that you'd just stuff an img tag in the message or something...Heh, that's what Pleroma did at first but Gargron doesn't like inline images.And would still need a way to enumerate the emojis.>I always expected that to be done on the client.Could work but for example filtering by type of Activities (say not having likes/follows/emoji reactions/…) could probably be done on server side to be bandwidth efficient.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS2w2waXW0DDWsFNfE by erincandescent@queer.af
       2023-01-26T20:37:34Z
       
       1 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @lanodan @user8e8f87c @feld @clacke @rmdes @m @KevinMarks Heh, that's what Pleroma did at first but Gargron doesn't like inline images.And would still need a way to enumerate the emojis.We could still have ended up with something like blobcat. Yeah, we would need a C2S API for it, but Emoji aren't even part of the defined S2S protocol 🙂  Could work but for example filtering by type of Activities (say not having likes/follows/emoji reactions/…) could probably be done on server side to be bandwidth efficient.In Impeller I cached posts locally, so actually receiving the "minor" activities was important for keeping the local DB in sync with the web UI.(pump.io did actually have distinct "major", "minor" and "direct" inboxes as distinct filtered views from your primary one, but I reimplemented that distinction locally so as to have a simpler sync protocol)
       
 (DIR) Post #AS3V3UI9hf1SSEduYy by erincandescent@queer.af
       2023-01-26T20:48:55Z
       
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       @lanodan @user8e8f87c @feld @clacke @rmdes @m @KevinMarks Heh, that's what Pleroma did at first but Gargron doesn't like inline images.And would still need a way to enumerate the emojis.We could still have ended up with something like <x-emoji src=":blobcat:​">blobcat</x-emoji>. Yeah, we would need a C2S API for it, but Emoji aren't even part of the defined S2S protocol 🙂  Could work but for example filtering by type of Activities (say not having likes/follows/emoji reactions/…) could probably be done on server side to be bandwidth efficient.In Impeller I cached posts locally, so actually receiving the "minor" activities was important for keeping the local DB in sync with the web UI.(pump.io did actually have distinct "major", "minor" and "direct" inboxes as distinct filtered views from your primary one, but I reimplemented that distinction locally so as to have a simpler sync protocol)
       
 (DIR) Post #AS3V3UrFbB5yD53wGW by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
       2023-01-27T03:12:56.472813Z
       
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       @erincandescent @user8e8f87c @feld @clacke @rmdes @m @KevinMarks > We could still have ended up with something like <x-emoji src=":blobcat:​">blobcat</x-emoji>.Well, arguably, not with JSON ActivityStreams. :/> In Impeller I cached posts locally, so actually receiving the "minor" activities was important for keeping the local DB in sync with the web UI.I feel like that would be too heavy for mobile clients and other lightweight applications (like say a bot that can answer to questions).Also the "minor" feed thing reminds me that we got scrobbling ("NowListening") in Pleroma added years ago but not exposed in any UI so it'll probably get removed as I know only one user of it.IIRC pump.io had something similar and I think it would definitely be the kind of thing to allow filtering out.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS3V8xaeCUF4lktxx2 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
       2023-01-27T03:14:02.219436Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       @erincandescent @KevinMarks @clacke @feld @m @rmdes @user8e8f87c pfhaha, my :blobcat: isn't the same as yours, beautiful.
       
 (DIR) Post #AS4LEdcyWpCyD81FrM by soupyhatecrimes@chudbuds.lol
       2023-01-27T12:58:24.097755Z
       
       0 likes, 0 repeats
       
       Why are you expecting Twitter to go down?