Post ARyuCImJPEs6PpFSIS by darius@friend.camp
(DIR) More posts by darius@friend.camp
(DIR) Post #ARyuCG0NiTLLoao9JI by darius@friend.camp
2023-01-24T20:27:50Z
4 likes, 5 repeats
I'm confused when devs claim that you can't experiment with software on the fediverse. I have spent the last 5 years of my life building experimental software on the fediverse, and people have been very supportive!There is a MASSIVE design space for weird ideas that are not just dressed-up surveillance capitalism, but so many devs come here saying "I will try out some dressed-up surveillance capitalism" and then act like their genius design thinking is being stymied when people say "fuck off"
(DIR) Post #ARyuCImJPEs6PpFSIS by darius@friend.camp
2023-01-24T20:31:09Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Yes, surveillance capitalism gives us some material things that are useful.There are also about a billion things we have never even tried out because rich people believe there's no money in it! Maybe some of those things will also be useful and we should try those instead. Just sayin!!!!
(DIR) Post #ARywrqv3ZiYW5EHMvY by mcc@mastodon.social
2023-01-24T20:32:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@darius There's some things I wish I knew how to change the thinking of the Mastodon community on.But, this saidMaybe programmer people need to figure out a clearer division in their heads on the difference between experimenting with software and experimenting on people
(DIR) Post #ARywrrNPsHEzVBY18C by CapitalB@noagendasocial.com
2023-01-24T22:31:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mcc @darius what nobody forces you to use anything hahahahaThere are 30 different kinds of activityPub servers and about a dozen mobile apps around.
(DIR) Post #ARzqMCYXBor7M4EFYu by stpaultim@fosstodon.org
2023-01-24T23:01:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@darius Well, your use of Surveillance Capitalism says something. If some folks don't like a new tool or feature, they label it as Surveillance Capitalism and shame the developers rather than engaging in any kind of constructive dialogue. It's one thing to say that a community is welcoming to developers. It's another thing to say that we're welcoming to developers, but only if they restrict themselves to ideas and features approved by a small self appointed group of gate keepers.
(DIR) Post #ARzqMCzTZePGhcplYW by darius@friend.camp
2023-01-24T23:02:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stpaultim From what I have seen, people label something surveillance capitalism when some they don't like a new feature because it is collecting data about them with an eye toward some kind of retention or growth or profit.
(DIR) Post #ARzqMDTblcVeD4vpWS by stpaultim@fosstodon.org
2023-01-24T23:08:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@darius Virtually anything on the internet can be categorized that way, if one chooses. It's a subjective criteria, which some people are very quick to make a judgement on, without necessarily even looking closely at the actual features or intend of the product. Yes, some features are much more problematic than others.
(DIR) Post #ARzqMDz9sJkLmvh1hQ by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-01-25T08:05:57Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@stpaultim @darius There’s very little that’s subjective about surveillance capitalism. Here’s how it works:1. Startup gets VC2. Startup creates tool that does two things: a. The thing it tells its users that it does (the features, what attracts, addicts, and keeps people using it), b. The thing it tells its customers that it does (extracts value from its users to exploit them for profit)3. If enough people fall for (a), the startup scales and exits (gets bought or IPOs)
(DIR) Post #ARzqMETe2y8JJTxNDc by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2023-01-25T08:10:05Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@stpaultim @darius If you see VCs and “startup” folks sniffing around something, you can be sure it’s not because they’re there to contribute to the commons but to enclose it. It’s how they got to be what they are. It’s what they do. And if we still can’t see this and protect ourselves and the commons from them, we’re destined to be exploited over and over again.
(DIR) Post #AS0kHn5hWMgKeRDRLs by ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud
2023-01-25T02:05:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@darius "all I was trying to do is exploit for personal gain, what?"
(DIR) Post #AS1NosclriGba6S9ho by college_physics@defcon.social
2023-01-25T09:02:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@darius surveillance capitalism is fairly specific form of commercialism. The question is whether the fediverse can be free of commercial motive of any kind. I believe the answer depends on scale. As a niche project between tech savvy individuals spending hobby time it could be a profit-motive free zone. But as a replacement for mass social I struggle to see how that could be. Even if entirely funded as public good there will be friction around procurements. Life is not simple.
(DIR) Post #AS1NovE4C1HveLuy7E by publius@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-01-26T02:43:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@college_physics @darius I would say, there's no need to be "free of commercial motive of any kind" ― rather, I would argue that the best thing is a DIVERSITY of motives.And here's the rub. Capitalism, as distinct from commerce, has definite metastatic tendencies. In fact we might usefully define capitalism, within a certain domain of discussion, as "the tendency to reallocate all human activity towards commerce".
(DIR) Post #AS1nPRZNukVZF2Ougq by college_physics@defcon.social
2023-01-26T07:30:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@publius @darius the metastatic behavior is largely the result of creating private legal entities that incentivise their members to behave in a certain way while the corresponding public entities (regulators) malfunction in incompetence and capture. For oligopolies commercialism is a fig leaf.The challenge remains how to scale the open source phenomenon and ethos several orders of magnitude so that it actually becomes relevant for society.