Post ARr0TdNT7IM1gcb2eG by Mastokarl@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by Mastokarl@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #ARgtx4dwBFNTO4n7E8 by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T05:34:13Z
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Jesus, I just figured it out.Anti-AI artists are exactly the same as the folks who made websites and objected to Alta Vista indexing them because it was "copying their work."#AIart #Luddite #midjourney #stablediffusion 1/4
(DIR) Post #ARgtx5WAvalM6IAQlc by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T05:34:14Z
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Anyone want to talk about how that turned out? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?Where are any of those people today? That's right, you can't tell me, because you can't find them. They don't exist. Any sign that they ever did is gone like tears in the rain.Likewise, going forward, artists who are adamantly anti-AI art and never, ever want their work, publicly posted, integrated into a generative system. They, too, will be tears in the rain. 2/4
(DIR) Post #ARgtx6WZBcfbDnMG12 by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T05:34:14Z
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Except no one will ever shed them or have any reason to know their names.Good artists, actual artists, who can create new and interesting ideas and execute them in interesting ways will always be in demand. Who else do you train your models on? There's only so much history. 3/4
(DIR) Post #ARgtx7bDBpyoYUXTtY by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T05:34:14Z
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This current stupidity will pass, and in its wake will be nothingness. No one will remember the names even enough to curse them. 4/4
(DIR) Post #ARguTzSUTfworc8IFM by Cher@eldritch.cafe
2023-01-16T05:40:12Z
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@LexTenebris AI art is interesting but so far it's just plagiarism with more steps and zero legal responsibility.
(DIR) Post #ARgwa4IlaFFdWwbuIC by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T06:03:45Z
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@Cher See, that argument doesn't hold water – unless you simultaneously hold that people learning from your art is plagiarism with more steps and zero legal responsibility.Because I have to tell you – nobody is going to replicate a given piece of art with current or near future AI tools. In part because they have no interest in doing so.
(DIR) Post #ARgwcAgKpjLbtgdZ4q by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T06:04:10Z
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@Cher Do you consider a human being learning to make art by studying your work to be plagiarism? How about if they go on to become professional artists? If their style is strongly similar to your own?No difference. Legally or morally.And therein lies the rub.
(DIR) Post #ARgwqprQWnKdfJol4C by Cher@eldritch.cafe
2023-01-16T06:06:41Z
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@LexTenebris AI isn't a people. You are taking someone's deck of cards and shuffling it but you're still copying their cards and using their work without their consent. You may as well say you can redistribute someone's art if you just compress a JPG of it until it looks different.
(DIR) Post #ARgx7axNC6RaMdag5I by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T06:09:49Z
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@Cher No, people that use AI are people.And you're not copying their cards. Unless you are maintaining that people who learn from your work are stealing your content.If you want to maintain that, go ahead – but it's stupid and self-destructive.As I said in the thread, it's just like the people who objected to having their websites indexed by the precursors to Google. And the results will be exactly the same.
(DIR) Post #ARgx8CNC545CPQxJy4 by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T06:09:57Z
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@Cher (You can redistribute someone's art if you compress a JPEG of it until it looks different. Check out the number of "movie plate poster" distributors who turn movies into vertical strips of color based on each scene. No license necessary unless they specifically use the copyrighted, actual, design of the titles.)
(DIR) Post #ARgxqAExN7EeXI4Eam by Cher@eldritch.cafe
2023-01-16T06:17:51Z
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@LexTenebris I really don't see a point in arguing if you're not going to consider what this tool is being used for and who it affects.
(DIR) Post #ARgxv1qG1YvBw8pm1Q by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T06:18:46Z
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@Cher I don't see the point in arguing if you're not actually aware of what copyright law is, what derivative work is, and comprehend exactly what's going on and why.And yet, here you are.I didn't care about buggy whip makers, either.
(DIR) Post #ARgyXtYAmoR3VwuMQS by Mastokarl@mastodon.social
2023-01-16T06:18:37Z
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@Cher @LexTenebris I believe it would help if you would read more about how these AIs work. Or maybe try them out.
(DIR) Post #ARgyXu0t43P6x0LIBM by Cher@eldritch.cafe
2023-01-16T06:21:32Z
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@Mastokarl @LexTenebris I literally have Stable Diffusion set up at my house. I've also seen a lot of stolen shit being peddled by "AI artists" like it's the fkin late 1800s.I'm pretty sure "having to show your own work" is something you learn as a kid and "don't just copy someone's work" is at least covered by middle school.If you just can't help yourself from taking other people's stuff, maybe you shouldn't be online. :/
(DIR) Post #ARgyXuQ3YTXMD47OPg by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T06:25:46Z
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@Cher @Mastokarl "Stolen shit."I don't think these words means what you think they do. And I'm pretty sure you haven't been paying attention to how much cross-fertilization has been going on in online art since people started pretending to be artists online.When you start showing me that you cooked up the graphite for your pencils and the ink in your pens yourself, I'll care about "show your own work." God forbid you use Photoshop.
(DIR) Post #ARgyZ78Fm4rNvZMjZo by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T06:25:57Z
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@Cher @Mastokarl And this is before we even get into the number of artists who lean on each other's style in order to be marketable. CalArts, anyone?In order to be taken seriously you actually have to have a serious point. You don't.If you aren't creative enough to compete with people poking an AI to assemble elements of styles – maybe you aren't much of an artist? Which would suck for you. It doesn't matter a bit to anyone else.
(DIR) Post #ARgyzsYA6AKiWLFLmq by Cher@eldritch.cafe
2023-01-16T06:30:50Z
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@LexTenebris @Mastokarl You seem to be confusing human beings with brains with internet tools again so I'm heading out.
(DIR) Post #ARgzqDjiZahPHsbtom by Mastokarl@mastodon.social
2023-01-16T06:40:08Z
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@LexTenebris exactly. And that’s not a bad thing. What AIs can do is the “craftsmanship” part of art, the technical stuff, “in the box” stuff (paint this like Van Gogh would have painted it”). If used well by artists, they can focus on creativity, “out of the box” thinking. That will be similar in my profession - the craftsmanship part of writing code that implements a certain idea will also more and more be left to AIs, and that’s also a good thing.
(DIR) Post #ARh02ldENPmft3Yhii by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-16T06:42:34Z
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@Mastokarl I'm an ex-software engineer and longtime writer. I've commissioned thousands of dollars in art for various publications and, at need, put pen to paper myself. (Nobody wants that.)The potential for AI generation to take care of all the scut work is amazing. And if it knocks out the bottom tier of creators and all of those fields? Good. Most of them are crap. Good luck trying to get a decent piece delivered on time.It's a godsend for people with real problems.
(DIR) Post #ARr0TdNT7IM1gcb2eG by Mastokarl@mastodon.social
2023-01-16T07:24:34Z
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@Cher @LexTenebris I guess we agree that stable diffusion (and the others) have neither the capacity (the latest checkpoint is some 5 GB in size) nor the data structures to store all the millions of images it has seen. Instead it conceptualizes about them on many levels. Which is exactly what humans do. Don't you agree then that SD and the others are fundamentally unable to create a perfect replica / plagiarize a piece of art? The information is just not there.
(DIR) Post #ARr0Te54VBETrqzrc0 by Mastokarl@mastodon.social
2023-01-16T07:27:30Z
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@Cher @LexTenebris I actually tried this out (at work I don't have a PC with a powerful graphic card so I used nightcafe): I asked it to create a perfect replica of one of the most famous of all pictures - Van Gogh's sunflowers. As expected it didn't create the exact work of art (as would be plagiarism) but interpretations of what a good artist would do if (s)he wouldn't see the actual picture when creating the painting.https://creator.nightcafe.studio/creation/zSLraMiW8JsKTJNLUCpp
(DIR) Post #ARr0TfNtefsvuWoPaq by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2023-01-21T02:34:32Z
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@Mastokarl @Cher It's interesting to note how readily you can get SD to replicate the style of a known artist. Almost as readily as you can get Artstation and deviantART to do so.If merely being able to mimic the style of another artist is enough to get you removed from the face of the net as a creator, there's a lot of Rule 34 that people are going to be very concerned about.For the last 30,000 years or so.