Post AR3L9FN2WBbdEnqdYu by ceoln@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by ceoln@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AR37qj9MHC3KgsHt0C by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T01:01:32Z
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I've been of the belief that people shouldn't care about politics, opinions, etc. nearly as much as they do...People have literally disowned family members because of it. That's honestly incredibly petty and very dumb.And if you can't stand someone because of their politics, that's on you, and it's up to you to, at the very least, maintain a basic level of human decency towards them.Don't be a petty political person nobody wants to be around. And remember, never make your opinions your personality.
(DIR) Post #AR38SSrBIntrA7mPXk by ItsGregory@mastodon.social
2022-12-28T01:08:21Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bitanything else I must do ? 🤔
(DIR) Post #AR3BupbScnbXgDe1nE by TinBee@fosstodon.org
2022-12-28T01:47:05Z
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@Linux_in_a_BitIf I had a far right relative that disliked my wife because of her skin colour, should I maintain human decency to them?
(DIR) Post #AR3CiGMXvFqMrXEtZg by john@liberdon.com
2022-12-28T01:56:03Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit I'm inclined to agree, but perhaps I have a case of the motivated reasoning. And so it's worth gut-checking whether I've really considered this.The most obvious contrary argument would be that we don't get to simply discard morality because "politics". If you vote for murdering innocents by the hundreds of thousands perhaps you shouldn't expect to be free of moral judgement.
(DIR) Post #AR3D9xZhMvZkhXb8xE by ceoln@qoto.org
2022-12-28T02:00:46Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit It's not petty or dumb to disown a family member (or friend or co-worker or neighbor or anything else) if their opinions or politics are actively odious. Some things are just beyond the pale.I don't feel obliged to "maintain a basic level of human decency" toward someone who doesn't maintain that level of decency toward LGBT folks, or non-Christians, or non-whites, or women, or poor people, or people from other countries, or...
(DIR) Post #AR3DYjf8EQaOnBxAfo by tjgillis@mastodon.openbracket.ca
2022-12-28T02:05:30Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit some political leanings say publicly many of my friends should be segregated for their sexuality and/or presentation and privately say much worse. Fuck those people. If your politics includes racism, sexism, misogyny, etc, I have no patience for you even if you're family. If you respect other humans right to make their own choices, we can disagree on just about everything else .
(DIR) Post #AR3FggJMm5BOclgo3U by codrusofathens@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T02:29:23Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit I think you're at least half right. It's our responsibility to always treat every human with a certain level of civility, even if their views threaten us or they oppose us somehow. Family should be a stronger bond than political opinions are dividers.But... Politics is not an isolated thing. It stems from a person's theology, philosophy, and degree of culture. Those things are places no serious person can compromise, especially on core values. For that reason, I would prefer to not worship alongside a family member of a different religion, rather than compromise my own belief. It's not that I dislike them; our beliefs are simply incompatible.
(DIR) Post #AR3JbTGKGLyoWR2QhE by jay@social.zerojay.com
2022-12-28T01:44:17.286995Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit You do not need to put up with family members or maintain a basic level of human decency towards anyone whose political beliefs say you should be eradicated. For a lot of people, politics is a literal matter of life and death with things like anti-trans bills being passed left and right out there."Don't be a political person no one wants to be around" is a really privileged statement to make. A lot of people out there have *no choice* in that matter if they want to exist at all.
(DIR) Post #AR3JbTj2XawrxUTMS8 by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:13:16Z
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@jay There's a difference between people who want you dead and people who simply hold different beliefs. I just want people to not want other people dead.It's fine to remove people from your life if they are so opposed to you that they are the ones excluding you first, but don't be the one to start it.That's all I'm saying
(DIR) Post #AR3JxgXHaojW3mYuno by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:17:17Z
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@TinBee If they can't do it back, be the better person anyway.It's up to you where you draw the line, but remember you can almost always at the very least maintain basic human decency, even without having them in your life.
(DIR) Post #AR3KVAHS1Xalrr7aLY by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:23:19Z
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Oh, and I'm talking about people disowning family members simply because of their political orientation etc. it's a completely different thing than if the family members are being terrible to people because of their political orientation.There's a nuanced distinction there that you have to be the one to make.
(DIR) Post #AR3KZw4aH5B5FfNUO0 by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:24:10Z
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@john You can morally judge whilst maintaining basic human decency...
(DIR) Post #AR3Kt2cY9brL3sNKi0 by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:27:38Z
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When I say "maintain a basic level of human decency" I mean to basically everyone, even a lot of people who don't do it back. There are some cases where that would be a bad idea.That's a nuanced decision that you have to be the one to make.Oh, also, and I'm talking about people disowning family members simply because of their political orientation etc. it's a completely different thing than if the family members are being terrible to people because of their political orientation.Again, that's a nuanced decision that you have to be the one to make.
(DIR) Post #AR3KvIMmaCQsTW4iZM by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:27:51Z
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@ceoln When I say "maintain a basic level of human decency" I mean to basically everyone, even a lot of people who don't do it back. There are some cases where that would be a bad idea.That's a nuanced decision that you have to be the one to make.
(DIR) Post #AR3Kwyv5r7fmk2vaUK by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:28:10Z
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@tjgillis When I say "maintain a basic level of human decency" I mean to basically everyone, even a lot of people who don't do it back. There are some cases where that would be a bad idea.That's a nuanced decision that you have to be the one to make.
(DIR) Post #AR3L6UGOgrggYgQPy4 by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:30:04Z
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@codrusofathens You can have different beliefs than someone whilest maintaining basic human decency.
(DIR) Post #AR3L9FN2WBbdEnqdYu by ceoln@qoto.org
2022-12-28T03:30:19Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit Fair enough. And of course it depends what "maintain a basic level of human decency" means. And for that matter "disowning". :)I'm actually fine being nice to those who aren't nice to me. It's being nice to those who aren't nice to OTHER PEOPLE (who've done nothing whatever to deserve it) that I'm not so good at.And I don't think that's a problem, in general.Some actions should have consequences.
(DIR) Post #AR3LSP2Yn574jJP3Zo by codrusofathens@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:34:02Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit Absolutely!
(DIR) Post #AR3LYcVFeJp8DmmuFU by mos_8502@oldbytes.space
2022-12-28T03:34:59Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit membership in certain voluntary groups is, itself, endorsement of ever stance of those groups. If a group advocates white supremacy, being a member is ethically identical to being a white supremacist.
(DIR) Post #AR3LiZe77uWWFwgCDw by TinBee@fosstodon.org
2022-12-28T03:36:56Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit Yes, but you initially said you shouldn’t cut someone out of your life due to politics. But it really comes down to how extreme those politics are. Could you really remain decent with someone if they were disgusted, and made a point of making a fuss about it as often as they could, by the way you wanted to live your life?
(DIR) Post #AR3LqkRuqP164vs76G by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:38:25Z
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@ceoln Exactly, this it's why you have to be the one making decisions, I can't so that for you :blobcatgiggle: The main thing I'm really trying to say is that people should simply remember that other people are just that, people, with their beliefs, opinions, politics, etc. and pause to think before doing bad things because of what they believe to be ill intent.Most people are trying to make the right call, but because we're people, we (surprisingly often) fail at that...Then there's actual ill intent, that's for you to decide. It's hard, be careful...
(DIR) Post #AR3Lux2PyuhcHQww5o by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:39:07Z
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The main thing I'm really trying to say is that people should simply remember that other people are just that, people, with their beliefs, opinions, politics, etc. and pause to think before doing bad things because of what they believe to be ill intent.Most people are trying to make the right call, but because we're people, we (surprisingly often) fail at that...Then there's actual ill intent, that's for you to decide. It's hard, be careful...
(DIR) Post #AR3MRL4IAnJu4jGmnI by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:45:03Z
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@mos_8502 Did you know 80% of the content on Twitter comes from just 20% of the people?Often the most extreme minority is the loudest and most vocal.I don't assume a member of such group is a white supremacist the same way I don't assume someone is a criminal just because they live in a bad neighborhood.They could be a criminal, but I don't assume that. The current anti-ism movement is trying to get more people fix this, but the root problem is really this kind of assumption.
(DIR) Post #AR3MYAIQcay0h48Y3U by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:46:16Z
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@TinBee Again, it's up to you where you draw the line...
(DIR) Post #AR3MdM0UVbwgSgDlnk by mos_8502@oldbytes.space
2022-12-28T03:47:12Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit if you are willingly a part of an organization that believes in something, that’s what counts as your beliefs. You make your choice and you get judged for it. That’s life. You are answerable for your choices.
(DIR) Post #AR3MfCbeQnPHswU3Y8 by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:47:18Z
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@TinBee https://linuxrocks.online/@Linux_in_a_Bit/109589171977477841
(DIR) Post #AR3NBZ1ub2LKhICLz6 by tjgillis@mastodon.openbracket.ca
2022-12-28T03:53:24Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit it's not a nuanced decision. In fact it's pretty straightforward. Politics isn't just the drunk uncle complaining about liberals or what stupid shit. It's that every day people need to go into a world that is systematically opposed to their existence and those structures need to be dismantled for us to achieve equity. But when the drunk uncle complains about trans people needing to be segregated he can promptly get fucked.
(DIR) Post #AR3NIxVVzK9sdjZSiG by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:54:28Z
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@mos_8502 Orginizational beliefs ≠ Individual beliefsIt's a very strong generalization that you just made.Somebody who works at Microsoft doesn't necessarily endorse their buisness practices.Politics is a spectrum, similar to happiness vs unhappiness actually... people assume both are a black or a white, but they really aren't.On a side note here, happiness is an interesting thing, if you want to this is actually a pretty nice read: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy
(DIR) Post #AR3NMjaDhQxcc5ZWXA by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T03:55:19Z
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@mos_8502 Orginizational beliefs ≠ Individual beliefsIt's a very strong generalization that you just made.Somebody who works at Microsoft doesn't necessarily endorse their buisness practices.Something like politics is a spectrum, similar to happiness vs unhappiness actually... people assume both are a black or a white (or red or blue), but they really aren't.On a side note here, happiness is an interesting thing, if you want to this is actually a pretty nice read: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/unhappy
(DIR) Post #AR3O3Jvmwur5VTy1g0 by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T04:03:00Z
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@tjgillis I meant politics isn't just a "I love red" vs "I love blue"Most people are somewhere in between.That's the nuance.People can sortof dislike, be supportive of, be indiffrent to, hate, love, etc. any number of things.Just because people voted for a color doesn't mean they are of the stance you think they are on a particular topic (and if you think it's an extreme, most of the time it's not the extreme)
(DIR) Post #AR3O9ojfKdc6maOXEO by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T04:04:16Z
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@tjgillis And if the uncle is like that, sure, by all means cut him out of your life.Just don't be an asshole back. Be the better person per se.
(DIR) Post #AR3OWIrfzcJOb6rcFk by mos_8502@oldbytes.space
2022-12-28T04:08:21Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit working for Facebook is endorsement of their actions. It doesn’t matter what you say you believe. It matters what you do. All must be held to account for their choices. No forgiveness. No compromise. No negotiation. There is only accountability and consequences. If you don’t want to be rejected socially for being a Republican, quit the party and disown them publicly. Repudiate them or endorse them. That is the only choice.
(DIR) Post #AR3QUpqyZQkwEtxpOC by tjgillis@mastodon.openbracket.ca
2022-12-28T04:30:04Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit if you vote blue and blue is staunchly anti gay, we have a problem. If red is vehemently anti trans and you vote for them we have a problem. Sure there are other factors, but calling that nuance is ignoring that your actions have consequences. Your decision to vote any way versus another is indicative of held values.You can't just handwave away that someone voted for Maxime Bernier. That person holds some very hateful views
(DIR) Post #AR3Rx2TdKWLZS93f0a by Linux_in_a_Bit@linuxrocks.online
2022-12-28T04:46:48Z
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@tjgillis Did they vote for either one BECAUSE they held those views?I use Youtube in spite of Google's anti privacy practicesDoes that name me anti privacy?Orginizational belief ≠ Personal beliefIt is a very dangerous thing to believe they are the same thing.
(DIR) Post #AR3TLPyzggHPG7uoqm by tjgillis@mastodon.openbracket.ca
2022-12-28T05:01:59Z
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@Linux_in_a_Bit there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. But that you can't see the difference between consumption and electing a representative on your behalf to argue for laws that have far reaching impacts certainly undermines any point you were trying to make.It's very dangerous to ignore the outcome of your actions. Take some responsibility.