Post AQX8OYVY8GL4TL52C8 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
(DIR) More posts by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
(DIR) Post #AQX8OYVY8GL4TL52C8 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T14:36:56Z
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#ScottKelly wasn't a fan of #ElonMusk's "prosecute/Fauci" tweet
(DIR) Post #AQXC9SAvnHqEIyUSpc by botolo86@mastodon.online
2022-12-12T15:19:00Z
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@realcaseyrollins there is no hope for this guy. He takes such a superficial view on complex issues and he just believes conspiracy theories floating around.
(DIR) Post #AQXCMnoYeRvbBMOHui by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T15:21:26Z
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@botolo86 lol...have you been paying attention? Or even reading the screenshot before replying?
(DIR) Post #AQXCTQ5lFXItdRaoeO by botolo86@mastodon.online
2022-12-12T15:22:36Z
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@realcaseyrollins do you believe Fauci lied to Congress and funded gain of function researches which triggered the death of million of people?
(DIR) Post #AQXCeVxjlNgP1n87f6 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T15:24:38Z
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@botolo86 Lied to congress, can't remember so I'm not sure. But it's on record that, while #Fauci didn't directly fund gain of function research out of his own pocket, an organization under his control did.
(DIR) Post #AQXClUhOrKtb8VogoS by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T15:25:54Z
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@botolo86 Nvm, had to check, yes #Fauci lied to congress as wellhttps://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114270/documents/HHRG-117-GO24-20211201-SD004.pdf
(DIR) Post #AQXClmuT9U2rcG4NgO by botolo86@mastodon.online
2022-12-12T15:25:54Z
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@realcaseyrollins being evidence, please. These were arguments used by one congressman against Fauci but I don’t recall clear and convincing evidence. And if you don’t have evidence, please stop spreading misleading rumors. It does not help anyone.
(DIR) Post #AQXDCb1LSn4oYs4L8y by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T15:30:47Z
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@botolo86 Document pertaining gain-of-function research:https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/21055989-understanding-risk-bat-coronavirus-emergence-grant-notice#NIH lifted a pause on gain-of-function research in 2017, for multiple diseases including the #flu, #SARS, and #MERS (if you remember, #COVID19 is a #SARS-related disease): https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/nih-lifts-funding-pause-gain-function-researchIn response, the #NIH has alternatively claimed that it has never given a grant to folks performing gain of function research: https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/statement-misinformation-about-nih-support-specific-gain-function-researchAnd that a grantee performed gain of function research without their knowledge or approval: https://www.science.org/content/article/nih-says-grantee-failed-report-experiment-wuhan-created-bat-virus-made-mice-sicker
(DIR) Post #AQXIoBOrfUWTsKoPh2 by botolo86@mastodon.online
2022-12-12T16:33:34Z
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@realcaseyrollins I invite you to read this very detailed article. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/10/29/repeated-claim-that-fauci-lied-congress-about-gain-of-function-research/
(DIR) Post #AQXKynLZdYwCMzSdHM by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T16:57:56Z
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@botolo86 Thanks. I'm digging into this now (progress will be slow since I am working ATM).So far I am here:> Even now, it’s not clear whether the research funded by EcoHealth in China amounted to gain of function. When the Intercept obtained EcoHealth documents in September, seven of 11 scientists who are virologists or work in adjacent fields told the Intercept that the work appeared to meet NIH’s criteria for gain-of-function research. Obviously, it’s a matter of dispute within the scientific communitySince this was written in 2021, I'm assuming further investigations have been done so I'm looking into evidence about whether or not #EcoHealth performed gain of research experiments in #Wuhan. So far I have only found that this year #EcoHealth claimed they did not perform gain of function research that created #SARSCOV2, and understandably so:https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/2022/12/ecohealth-alliance-statement-regarding-book-by-andrew-huff
(DIR) Post #AQXLnvjGETRZ8QvJJ2 by botolo86@mastodon.online
2022-12-12T17:07:09Z
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@realcaseyrollins I appreciate your interest in this matter and I welcome your willing to study the matter even further. Just to clarify, my initial post was responding to a very superficial tweet by Elon Musk, basically stating that it’s proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Fauci lied to Congress, that his institute funded gain of function research and, more dangerously, it buys into the conspiracy theory that Fauci is behind Covid. These are dangerous statements.
(DIR) Post #AQXRdmr6y5CwRa8rnk by botolo86@mastodon.online
2022-12-12T17:08:10Z
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@realcaseyrollins even more dangerous when you think about the incredible number of death threats that Fauci has received and the fact that Musk’s tweets have an incredible viral (not a joke 😂) spread on social media.
(DIR) Post #AQXRdnRGne8CFj3kA4 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T18:12:33Z
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@botolo86 Found something else: The #HeritageFoundation is claiming that #EcoHealth funded #COVID19 research at the #WuhanInstituteOfVirologyhttps://www.heritage.org/public-health/commentary/why-are-feds-still-funding-ecohealth-alliance-when-its-covid-19-roleTurns out that as of this August, the #WuhanInstituteOfVirology is refusing to detail the nature of their #COVID19 research, triggering the #NIH to withdraw part of their grant with #EcoHealth:https://thebulletin.org/2022/08/nih-to-terminate-ecohealth-alliance-grant-after-its-wuhan-partners-refuse-to-deliver-information-on-coronavirus-studies/That article links back to the document retrieved via #FOIA request that I'd linked earlier, and insinuates that #EcoHealth performed gain of function research (or at least performed experiments that improved the virality of a #coronavirus) without notifying the #NIH.So it could be the case that the #NIH did fund gain of function research, but was not aware of it.Still have more reading to do though, I haven't read some of the sources I've pulled up and I haven't made any progress in the #WashingtonPost article yet (just wanted to verify its claim first before proceeding)
(DIR) Post #AQXVGRdw4M2JoK6Wau by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T18:53:11Z
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@botolo86 I think I'm ready to proceed with the #WashingtonPost article, it's looking like the research increased the virality of the #Coronavirus, but scientists aren't sure if the research done fits the #NIH's official definition of Gain Of Function.
(DIR) Post #AQXVrYOvuEFXU7mXAW by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T18:59:53Z
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@botolo86 > But Cotton claimed NIH admitted that it had funded gain-of-function research.When did #TomCotton claim this?I will look for this later, but not now, as much lunch break just ended. But nothing I've found so far supports this claim.
(DIR) Post #AQXWFO2M5iOKI6aNAu by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T19:04:11Z
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@botolo86 I couldn't find when #TomCotton made this claim. But I did find what it was in reference to:https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nih-acknowledges-us-funded-gain-of-function-wuhan-lab-despite-faucis-denialsDespite the headline, it seems like it was an #NIH official, not the #NIH organization as a whole, who admitted to gain-of-function research.Still gotta dig and find more at the bottom of this claim and admission though
(DIR) Post #AQXYS2XTX1CNHyIqtE by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T19:28:54Z
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@botolo86 Looks like the #NIH official was speaking on the behalf of the #NIH after all, and demanded that #EcoHealth explain why they changed the nature of the experiments. Seems like #EcoHealth was initially evaluated and found to have not been performing gain of research, then began gain of research experiments without notifying the #NIH of this change and submitting their new work for a second overview and analysis.https://twitter.com/GOPoversight/status/1450934193177903105/photo/1
(DIR) Post #AQXfpHNlD4uJfEmt4i by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T20:51:31Z
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@botolo86 Before moving forward it's interesting to note that here the #NIH claims that the #coronavirus versions studied aren't the same as #SARSCOV2, which became #COVID19
(DIR) Post #AQXgAySCGYdDKUCvDs by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T20:55:27Z
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@botolo86 The #WashingtonPost here also accused the #NIH of lying about how much they knew about #EcoHealth's experiments:> As we have noted, the experiment was disclosed in 2018 in the fourth report. The fifth report was due in 2019, but EcoHealth maintains a miscommunication with NIH and a technical glitch led to its delay until this year.and not getting a straight answer when confronting them on this:> We sent questions to NIH about the failure to note the 2018 disclosure by EcoHealth and why it believed an increase in genome copies per gram would indicate 10-fold increase in viral growth. After a four-day wait, we received this emailed statement: “NIH stands by the letter provided to Congressional Committees in response to their inquiries and released by the House Energy & Commerce. NIH is not commenting on internal deliberations with the grantee beyond the information in the letter.”Interesting!
(DIR) Post #AQXjY3Sm6iTvO9AvL6 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T21:33:14Z
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@botolo86 Okay, it's seeming like there's a bit of a word-salad mixup here.The #NIH has never admitted to funding gain-of-function research. However, they admitted to funding a type of experiment that others do classify as gain-of-function research. So it's looking like under the definition that #FoxNews is using, "Gain-of-function research involves extracting viruses from animals to artificially engineer in a laboratory to make them more transmissible and deadly to humans", the assertion that the #NIH admitted to funding gain-of-function research is true, even if they don't call it gain-of-function, per the associative property of logic and binary math (if a = b & b = c then c = a; in laymen's terms, if the experiments match a process, and that process is gain-of-function, then the experiments were gain-of-function)But it seems like #RandPaul and other are oblivious to the varying definitions of what is and isn't gain-of-function, at least going off of these links alone.
(DIR) Post #AQXjmaKQiAAHNBCTvE by botolo86@mastodon.online
2022-12-12T21:35:47Z
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@realcaseyrollins thank you so much for sending all this very interesting info. I’ll take a look when I have time but in general I still think that Musk’s statement was not only dangerous but completely not accurate. Maybe there were researches on gain of function, maybe not. Maybe they were related to Covid, maybe not. Musk’s statement is attached here and it’s pretty bad.
(DIR) Post #AQXkEuwle8DRQadtTM by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T21:40:59Z
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@botolo86 I'm not sure what's dangerous about it, and I'm not sure what lie #ElonMusk is referring to here specifically. But after reading this info it's certainly important to acknowledge the differing definitions of "gain of function", as understanding that claim is important while discussing it.
(DIR) Post #AQXkT9wGhfTnykCSmm by botolo86@mastodon.online
2022-12-12T21:43:32Z
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@realcaseyrollins Musk says Fauci is responsible for gain of function research that killed millions of people. It’s not clear whether Fauci’s institute funded gain of function research and it’s absolutely not proven that the Covid pandemic came from any kind of gain of function research.
(DIR) Post #AQXkXodpJXRlNEnJfE by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T21:44:24Z
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@botolo86 And of course! Thanks for sending me the info; I'm generally not a fan of the #WashingtonPost but this article didn't seem too bad, and led to some interesting info!
(DIR) Post #AQXkxzfivQK377AFRw by botolo86@mastodon.online
2022-12-12T21:49:07Z
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@realcaseyrollins i very much appreciated this conversation and I would like to thank you for keeping it civil. Unfortunately nowadays our world is so polarized that it’s difficult to have civil conversations.
(DIR) Post #AQXpDeF0lv3Z65OEqW by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T22:36:46Z
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@botolo86 I suppose. I don't think anyone will be able to agree on whether or not the experiments amounted to gain-of-functions unless everyone's definitions converge somehow.
(DIR) Post #AQXpLbvFHEluDpwQca by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-12T22:38:13Z
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@botolo86 No problem! I absolutely love having civil conversations with folks. The clear communication lets ideas actually be shared, which doesn't really work with the low fidelity you'd get with a typical shouting match lol
(DIR) Post #AQZAMZc5diDPXvF3c8 by laneyB@mstdn.social
2022-12-13T14:08:23Z
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@realcaseyrollins @botolo86 I think the first part of the issue here is one of sources - particularly The Heritage Foundation. I would be very cautious with any “reporting” from there https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/
(DIR) Post #AQZAYT4bmTwKjnFjt2 by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-13T14:10:32Z
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@laneyB @botolo86 I'd find it hard to believe that #HeritageFoundation's article that I linked is completely incorrect considering that it's largely corroborated by the other article I shared, which was written by the #BullitenOfTheAtomicScientists:https://thebulletin.org/2022/08/nih-to-terminate-ecohealth-alliance-grant-after-its-wuhan-partners-refuse-to-deliver-information-on-coronavirus-studies/
(DIR) Post #AQZAnrekfFhXK9V4fg by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2022-12-13T14:13:20Z
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@laneyB @botolo86 If fact-check websites are your thing, this has a score you may like:https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bulletin-of-the-atomic-scientists/But my goal in this thread is to evaluate each claim. Reliable sources are wrong sometimes and conversely, unreliable sources are correct sometimes. But I didn't accept anything here that didn't have any corroboration.