Post AQ6ZSyQd9ZORW5C01I by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AQ5zq3C80DiUbo774a by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T12:23:45Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
United Federation of Instances Proposalhttps://gitlab.com/ufoi/constitutionI tagged below everyone who asked me to tag them. I have now started a gitlab group and project where we can discuss the #UFoI proposal transparently and with a good recorded history.Please start discussions by creating issues, and any edits you have to the proposal please edit on gitlab and submit as a merge request, which can then be discussed.I will write the CI code to make sure the document gets compiled.I will try to leave the mass-message like here just to the major developments as it feels a bit spammy. I will only send out one more notification once the by laws draft is up. Of course if anyone does not want to get notified let me know and ill leave you off from future discussions.@timezoneless @floppy @ufi @ufoi @skanman @john @stevenclyman @robryk @ejg @dashrandom @Romaq @ichoran @AlanOutback @tsomof @aebrockwell @Ryle @tatzelbrumm @Gaythia @realcaseyrollins @stux @stux @trinsec @khird @darnell @jq
(DIR) Post #AQ60VDofPstjQLlvRw by frankiesaxx@social.tchncs.de
2022-11-29T12:31:15Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@freemolol I have no idea what all these very long posts are but good luck with your... *squints* fediverse UN and server rights court? : :ablobcatrave:
(DIR) Post #AQ60evh1eYU26ypK7M by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T12:32:57Z
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@frankiesaxx Thanks.. the idea is to make defederation evidence based rather than rumor based... it wont be a "court" for any instance outside of the federation. It will only govern the members who elect to join.
(DIR) Post #AQ621fetXCc6zqEoEa by frankiesaxx@social.tchncs.de
2022-11-29T12:48:17Z
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@freemothere's definitely a place for compiling actual evidence and history of bad action so people can make educated decisions about defederation, sometimes it's pretty clear and easy like network hostile servers deliberately attacking other servers at a technical level like a couple years ago, other times it's less clear if it's something real or just some kind of interpersonal admin drama that's escalated to "I'm not speaking to you anymore!" "Yeah? Well *I'm* not speaking to *you* first!"
(DIR) Post #AQ62ah9Rya1dlIEMls by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T12:54:38Z
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@frankiesaxx yea, the hope here is that interpersonal drama stays out, if it isnt evidence based, an an instance has proven to meet the mutually agreedupon ethics, then the interpersonal drama needs to go.
(DIR) Post #AQ63QWwTBBLR9ksNkm by frankiesaxx@social.tchncs.de
2022-11-29T13:04:01Z
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@freemoI'm lucky as a user that my two main instances have a very light defederation policy, and the top admins are willing to stand up against defederation ultimatums and power games and that "Well if you keep talking to Sally's, I guess I can't talk to you anymore!" nonsense
(DIR) Post #AQ63ZVpefvqyJuyIxk by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T13:05:37Z
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@frankiesaxx perhaps they would want to be part of the UFoI, or at the very least might want to join the discussion about it... maybe you should ask them?
(DIR) Post #AQ64NWOEsLU0WszhFw by frankiesaxx@social.tchncs.de
2022-11-29T13:14:43Z
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@freemoI would say unlikely, neither tends to like to get into the social politics of fediverse. I think part of the fedi conflicts come from different value priorities (and I don't include the bad actors). Some admins see what they're doing as providing a public service supporting and protecting network access, which is important bc the idea "you can just stand up your own instance" is correct in principle but not realistic for tons of ppl bc either technical knowledge or financial reasons
(DIR) Post #AQ64T9g2Ec5Vp90Kwq by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T13:15:41Z
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@frankiesaxx Never hurts to ask and see. Perhaps they have ideas that it could be constructed in a better way.
(DIR) Post #AQ64znNEB9fYCvltdQ by frankiesaxx@social.tchncs.de
2022-11-29T13:21:33Z
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@freemoYou're free to invite them! I just don't think they'll probably be too interested in getting into those drama infested weeds neither would be like "omg harrassment!!!!" if you contacted them via their listed info and asked if they'd be interested or anything, just wouldn't expect a yes
(DIR) Post #AQ654b4PLngJUrG4fo by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T13:22:22Z
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@frankiesaxx can you tell me their handle on mastodon, ill politely reach out, thanks.
(DIR) Post #AQ65mdULiiYBjsOL7w by frankiesaxx@social.tchncs.de
2022-11-29T13:29:33Z
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@freemothe other part of this is some admins really see their primary role as social moderation (and may not even be the person who is running the technical aspects of the server) and those people prioritize curating social interaction over facilitating itI think every admin has to make choices that fall in a spectrum between providing a technical service and curating the social space, and they're both noble values, people will just land differently in which takes precedence in the grey areas
(DIR) Post #AQ65meBb7v93u0csXQ by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T13:30:23Z
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@frankiesaxx the UFoI is **purely** social. It has no technological components of any kind.
(DIR) Post #AQ66JO2ECHqBMnr3lg by frankiesaxx@social.tchncs.de
2022-11-29T13:32:12Z
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@freemoone of the best things about the fediverse being distributed among different servers is that users who can't run their own have real choice in choosing a server whose values on that spectrum align with their own, unlike one size fits all corporate solutuons
(DIR) Post #AQ66JOYqF1vczx76bQ by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T13:36:20Z
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@frankiesaxx yes, this unique rules for each server thing is partly what I wanted to preserve.Keep in mind the code of ethics is intentionally incomplete. It only covers the minimum one would expect of a good-actor, the sort of traits most everyone could agree on if their trying to be decent... but each instance in the UFoI also have the option to create additional stricter rules for their instance.
(DIR) Post #AQ66hrK4xOUj9SsEhk by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T13:40:44Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Just FYI, I now set it up so any changed to the document at the link in my last post, once accepted, will automatically compile to a PDF and update teh version hosted here automatically.So you can follow this link if you want to see the latest version of the document at any time:https://ufoi.gitlab.io/constitution/united_federation_of_instances_proposal.pdfIm now working ont he more technical bylaws document. Which I will update everyone on soon.@timezoneless @floppy @ufi @ufoi @skanman @john @stevenclyman @robryk @ejg @dashrandom @Romaq @ichoran @AlanOutback @tsomof @aebrockwell @Ryle @tatzelbrumm @Gaythia @realcaseyrollins @stux @stux @trinsec @khird @darnell @jq
(DIR) Post #AQ66pNFwd04oDaWVxQ by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T13:42:06Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Just FYI, I now set it up so any changed to the document at the link in my last post, once accepted, will automatically compile to a PDF and update teh version hosted here automatically.So you can follow this link if you want to see the latest version of the document at any time:https://ufoi.gitlab.io/constitution/united_federation_of_instances_proposal.pdfIm now working ont he more technical bylaws document. Which I will update everyone on soon.@timezoneless @floppy @ufoi @skanman @john @stevenclyman @robryk @ejg @dashrandom @Romaq @ichoran @AlanOutback @tsomof @aebrockwell @Ryle @tatzelbrumm @Gaythia @realcaseyrollins @stux @stux @trinsec @khird @darnell @jq
(DIR) Post #AQ6EV8jbhzPB1QGCu0 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T15:08:04Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Another FYI. Since everyone here helped give feedback for the document I’d like to add you all to the list of people who contributed (its a contributors file)…Few things1) If anyone who asked to be a contributor doesnt want their handle listed, just let me know, thats not a problem (do it privately in DM, not here to reduce spam).2) I will just add everyones fediverse handle by default, but if you want I am happy to replace it with some combination of your name, handle, or email.3) Everyone who contributes in any way is allowed to get their name in the list, so dont be shy to reach out.@timezoneless @floppy @ufoi @skanman @john @stevenclyman @robryk @ejg @dashrandom @Romaq @ichoran @AlanOutback @tsomof @aebrockwell @Ryle @tatzelbrumm @Gaythia @realcaseyrollins @stux @stux @trinsec @khird @darnell @jq
(DIR) Post #AQ6F07NMoI2Vmjd4RE by dashrandom@kopiti.am
2022-11-29T15:13:42Z
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@freemo any deadline to review this?
(DIR) Post #AQ6F8wub5IddwCNpg0 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T15:15:17Z
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@dashrandom No date is set yet... my plan was to look towards critical mass rather than deadlines. Once everything is good enough we have a good set of instances interested to join, then it is probably only then we will set a deadline for final comments.Right now my intent is to right a technical bylaws document. As I write it any changes to the proposal I will make sure are incorperated into the bylaws.. then we will have two documents to review, one summarizing the other more or less.
(DIR) Post #AQ6O0iJyLce9xLOsue by tatzelbrumm@qoto.org
2022-11-29T16:54:41Z
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@freemo @timezoneless @floppy @ufoi @skanman @john @stevenclyman @robryk @ejg @dashrandom @Romaq @ichoran @AlanOutback @tsomof @aebrockwell @Ryle @Gaythia @realcaseyrollins @stux @stux @trinsec @khird @darnell @jqI am rather impatiently looking forward to a link to an editable\(\TeX\) source (including style file).In academic context, overleaf works suprisingly well.
(DIR) Post #AQ6PV2JWgBOGbXDLuK by tatzelbrumm@qoto.org
2022-11-29T17:06:06Z
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@freemo That said, where do I get plex-sans.sty?
(DIR) Post #AQ6PV2kp2hDzyBz9SC by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T17:11:18Z
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@tatzelbrumm no clue what style sheet that is off hand.
(DIR) Post #AQ6PtDpbVejHH6kdWK by tatzelbrumm@qoto.org
2022-11-29T17:15:44Z
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@freemo,In TufteReport.cls,just add a few %, like,%\usepackage[sfdefault]{plex-sans} % Use IBM Plex Sans as the sans font and make it the default%\usepackage{plex-serif} % Use IBM Plex Serif as the serif font%\usepackage{plex-mono} % Use IBM Plex Mono as the mono fontand things compile well elsewhere(after sorting out the BibTeX stuff)Added benefit: The font conforms to the Potrzebie system of weights and measures.https://polaris93.livejournal.com/2046896.html
(DIR) Post #AQ6Q2q5qcbr6Y4w1aK by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T17:17:26Z
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@tatzelbrumm oh, all those packages should be installed as part of you tex install.. but you may need to pick a pretty aggressive install package.. most platforms have something like texlive-full that has everything you need.The server itself will compile the pdf for you when you submit a change by the way.
(DIR) Post #AQ6QeqnaRmjjjzWDr6 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T17:24:18Z
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@tatzelbrumm as we make changes on git it will automatically compile it and publish the new pdf here:https://ufoi.gitlab.io/constitution/united_federation_of_instances_proposal.pdfyou can also run gitlab-runner locally on the project to compile it locally
(DIR) Post #AQ6VJpinkxsQ5c4tOq by battaglia01@qoto.org
2022-11-29T18:16:34Z
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@freemo what does "post unlisted" mean? From"All accounts which engage in commercial activity as their primary purpose or posts explicitly intended to advertise must be posted unlisted."Also I would probably word that in such a way that it doesn't also mean content creators, artists, musicians, looking to promote their work...
(DIR) Post #AQ6VZ7alb4jbrDbrUW by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T18:19:17Z
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@battaglia01 content creators can not use this platform to advertise anymore than others... with that said its ok if they share their content so long as they dont try to sell it here (such as including purchase links).. We try to conside rit on a case by case basis but generally if your posting with the intent to make money, content creator or not, its a no go. but you can talk about things you make money off of indirectly.Unlisted is one of the privacy options on a post (see the little globe, hit that when writing a post). It means that only people who go to the post and followers will see it. It wont show up in the local or federated timelines.
(DIR) Post #AQ6WOARIlokdSOWUeO by Ryle@awoo.fyi
2022-11-29T18:25:39.995642Z
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This is likely very damaging to the furry demographic that usually are artists where their primary income is through things like art comissions. I think that this policy will make furry instances unlikely to participate. I can certainly see it being fine to agree to content warnings, tagging of such content and allow different servers in the federation decide if they want to filter that content out or not.
(DIR) Post #AQ6WOB8CCL3vbQakVc by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T18:28:30Z
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@Ryle Sorry I had a brain fart, I thought for a se3cond I was talking about QOTO and not the UFoII take back what I said and agree with @battaglia01 that an exception for content creators should be allowed in the UFoI's constitution. QOTO will remain non-commercial however.Hey do you want to try to create a merge request with your proposed change (either of you can)... also add yourself to the contributors if you arent already there.
(DIR) Post #AQ6Wfnhk2KLK9tcYWO by Ryle@awoo.fyi
2022-11-29T18:30:59.348629Z
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Sure, I can do a proposal and merge request. The proposal.tex is the file I should be modifying?
(DIR) Post #AQ6WfrTi0RUjrX5PCi by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T18:31:45Z
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@Ryle Yup that is the one.@battaglia01
(DIR) Post #AQ6XLE8oeNrQ1W2RFY by battaglia01@qoto.org
2022-11-29T18:39:13Z
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@freemo @Ryle yes I meant this "UFOI" thing. There are now a bunch of famous or quasi famous celebrities on Mastodon, including STEM people - if John Baez, Eugenia Cheng, Sabine Hossenfelder, George Takei, etc write a book I would want them to be allowed to post a link for me to buy it... They probably will anyway. Many of these people barely know how to use Mastodon and I doubt they even know what unlisted means or how to do it.Of course QOTO can have its own rules for its own instance if you want it to be non-commercial, but I don't think it should be a federation wide rule, also for the reasons Ryle said above. I'm not sure if my suggestion would be just to get rid of that rule entirely, or if there is some way to reword it. Maybe I will leave that to Ryle as I am still pretty new here
(DIR) Post #AQ6XONd1pitSJgfoum by tatzelbrumm@qoto.org
2022-11-29T18:39:48Z
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@freemo ok, I cloned the repository,got rid of the IBM plex font directives, and can edit locally.What’s the procedure to push contributions?Clone??On bitbucket???github????gitlab.com?????
(DIR) Post #AQ6XQLGDbl8bYGwKIa by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T18:40:09Z
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@battaglia01 Maybe we want to remove the whole "no-commercial" rule entierly.. youve convinced me of that personally.. Can you throw up an issue or merge request and ill be happy to back you up as we are in agreement.@Ryle
(DIR) Post #AQ6XV0zEPhrY7ZDr5E by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T18:40:59Z
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@tatzelbrumm create a topic-branch (once just for you), push it there, go to the web-ui create a merge request off of it… select the option to delete topic branch once merged.
(DIR) Post #AQ6XftTgfghg1Ceh84 by tatzelbrumm@qoto.org
2022-11-29T18:42:58Z
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@freemo ok, so far I can’t push from my local repository.Do I need to create a fork on gitlab to be able to send a merge request?Should I create one branch per merge request or will one branch for several pull/merge requests suffice?
(DIR) Post #AQ6ZOVwH8R7M00rrO4 by battaglia01@qoto.org
2022-11-29T19:02:14Z
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@freemo @Ryle OK sounds good. I saw Ryle was about to make a merge request already so maybe will leave that to him
(DIR) Post #AQ6ZSyQd9ZORW5C01I by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T19:03:00Z
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@battaglia01 Was he?@Ryle
(DIR) Post #AQ6bj5JvUsh5Qtro80 by Ryle@awoo.fyi
2022-11-29T19:16:30.958031Z
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Yes; I am working on a proposal now. Although, my proposals is more about changing it to a tagging requirement than removing it all together. This gives instances operators the maximum flexibility to filter or not filter without feeling the need to defederate.
(DIR) Post #AQ6bj5lDrOWonYdbfs by Ryle@awoo.fyi
2022-11-29T19:26:03.053734Z
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Merge request is here, can discuss on ticket - https://gitlab.com/ufoi/constitution/-/merge_requests/1
(DIR) Post #AQ6bj654faPLn7vScK by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T19:28:19Z
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@Ryle Wonderful, thank you!@battaglia01
(DIR) Post #AQ6cd2LdjeHeQmLeuu by battaglia01@qoto.org
2022-11-29T19:38:30Z
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@freemo @RyleI think most of the changes are good. I'd probably just ditch the commercial requirement entirely. If some individual instance wants to have that requirement then that's alright, but I don't think it should be a federation-wide rule. Like you were saying, there isn't much for artists on here to do except for promote their stuff, which should probably be encouraged if anything. Instances primarily for artists should be permitted to let their artists post w/o special tags if they want to. Same with STEM authors promoting books.
(DIR) Post #AQ6dl9rrlDyO1XrHA8 by Ryle@awoo.fyi
2022-11-29T19:50:30.159984Z
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My only concern behind this is if some instances would rather not federate if they couldn't filter it out. I personally don't mind it being removed otherwise.
(DIR) Post #AQ6dlAN3tEvVaISBmq by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T19:51:06Z
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@Ryle You mean like filter out a whole instance?@battaglia01
(DIR) Post #AQ6eDOSv53QpPEeZsW by Ryle@awoo.fyi
2022-11-29T19:53:52.439507Z
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Hypothetically, lets say you run an instance that is doesn't allow any commercial activity posts. If your choice with federating with another set of instances becomes do not federate to stop content you don't want.Or, in my proposal, just filter out unwanted messages based on hashtags.
(DIR) Post #AQ6eDOwLJey2sUQ4jw by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T19:56:12Z
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@Ryle This is actually sort of where coalitions come in. Their job can be to document subsets of the rules and provide lists which users can use.. for example if we decide to allow nudity then maybe as a compromise we can create coalition whose job it is to document instances that allow different types of nudity and then users can use that as a block list if they want or even as an allow list.@battaglia01
(DIR) Post #AQ6f0TunbipWUu6JJA by Ryle@awoo.fyi
2022-11-29T20:03:55.995933Z
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My only counter argument to this, is tagging makes it possible for more liberal/open instances to federate with very restrictive instances, without the instance choosing to silence the entire instance in the best case scenario when tags aren't provided.
(DIR) Post #AQ6f0UWjKhAgOXqbQm by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T20:05:05Z
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@Ryle If MRFs were a think on mastodon (someone correct me if im wrong but they arent) then id agree with you.. but I dont think it would work too well for the mastodon side.@battaglia01