Post AQ01e870vZdbLSPD2u by Romaq@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by Romaq@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #APzoeVoDWaNHR3SvE8 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T12:50:10Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
I want to thank everyone for the ovwhelming support for our cause, you guys mean a lot.I have been tthinking a lot lately and thing I have a social solution to this problem. It is something I am going to start doing a writeup on ttoday. I think it will not just thelp QOTO but in general address the unwantant fracturing of the fediverse.I will share the dettails once my writeup is complete but if anyone is intterested in hearing more or potentially help being a part of it, please reply here or reach out to me in DM.#mastoadmin #fediblock #qoto #fediverse
(DIR) Post #APzokeC7GDHTBDZNEe by icedquinn@blob.cat
2022-11-26T12:51:20.752859Z
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@freemo does it involve you posting without the sandwich in your hand :ablobcatbongokeyboard:
(DIR) Post #APzotLyINl5HGjFxfE by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T12:52:52Z
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@icedquinn Never!
(DIR) Post #APzpr4ppDzZBUmlz4C by Nordstahl@qoto.org
2022-11-26T13:03:41Z
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@freemo Just an observation but I believe that the “t” key on your keyboard might be in need of a little maintenance. Or it might have involved a sandwich I don’t know… 🤣
(DIR) Post #APzpuKiicTuHdF0A2C by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T13:04:15Z
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@Nordstahl the t and n key are semi broken and bounce.. yes i need a new keyboard :(
(DIR) Post #APzytW4RpgK48HqnS4 by herid@qoto.org
2022-11-26T14:44:59Z
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@freemo is there a way to see which instances blocked us?
(DIR) Post #APzzZD1J3KltD7GHwW by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T14:52:29Z
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@herid The one tool tthat would let you is very much frowned upon to endorse as it is written by Kiwifarms.I can tell you that since I've seen the list it is very few large servers... its mostly limited to a bunch of single user servers and very small servers.These servers are also known for being toxic so probably for the best. Most of them block the vast majorrity of the fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AQ01e870vZdbLSPD2u by Romaq@qoto.org
2022-11-26T15:15:49Z
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@freemo When I saw this, I thought such a group should have a name that would capture the nature of such a group.https://youtu.be/qZz_cXRyVd0Fractured Fairytales came to mind. I'm not sure this could even be used without attracting the attention of angry lawyers, but if the group were ostracized... "fractured" from the #Fediverse over fairytales, it would seem to me to fit.
(DIR) Post #AQ02tSDUYtKXzoJ4iW by herid@qoto.org
2022-11-26T15:29:48Z
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@freemo thanks. would still like to see the list if possible. can you perhaps post it on the "about qoto" page? It does list silenced servers.
(DIR) Post #AQ032cpOTj8zVqPMeW by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T15:31:25Z
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@herid Sadly no, it was written by kiwifarms so using, sharing, or endorsing the list in any way would be quite dangerous and very much frowned upon.
(DIR) Post #AQ04YWOQ2Utgm8Z1u4 by herid@qoto.org
2022-11-26T15:48:26Z
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@freemo hmm. I don't know what kiwifarms is so can't comment on that part. but in general I feel that that which instances block which should be public info.
(DIR) Post #AQ04boCmGonYt6gc52 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T15:49:01Z
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@herid I agree ti should be public info... Kiwifarms is a notoriously evil instance that has caused the suicide of several people... they are the sum of the universe.
(DIR) Post #AQ059RMngmgbtyPYfo by herid@qoto.org
2022-11-26T15:55:05Z
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@freemo yikes. ok, but it doesn't have to be kiwifarms that provides such tool. someone else should make something similar.
(DIR) Post #AQ05FApo4Hp6MjiEfg by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T15:56:05Z
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@herid If someone else creates such a took I will be happy to let you know.
(DIR) Post #AQ0CBFoMK3XeJz75we by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-11-26T17:13:50Z
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@freemo Unwanted? By whom? You, qoto.org, someone else? There's certainly no consensus to whether the formation of factions is unwanted.
(DIR) Post #AQ0CQgCsT1C0WrwAt6 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T17:16:36Z
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@dusnm Unwanted by many.. by my judgement the majority in fact, at least based on how im seeing the conversation go.
(DIR) Post #AQ0CoFhYfEppH6Wo2y by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-11-26T17:20:54Z
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@freemo The software (at least Mastodon) is specifically designed to make defederation one of the most useless options in content moderation. How else would we deal with malicious actors? This will inevitably lead to formation of factions as it indeed does. I'd argue it's part of our nature as people, a natural extension of our right for self-determination. To be clear, I have no qualms with people who decide not to use this, it's as much a right to not use it as it is to do.
(DIR) Post #AQ0CpqQHcWqBSCCuMi by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-11-26T17:21:12Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@freemo The software (at least Mastodon) is specifically designed to make defederation one of the most useful options in content moderation. How else would we deal with malicious actors? This will inevitably lead to formation of factions as it indeed does. I'd argue it's part of our nature as people, a natural extension of our right for self-determination. To be clear, I have no qualms with people who decide not to use this, it's as much a right to not use it as it is to do.
(DIR) Post #AQ0CvrnZQ269SQyGwq by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T17:22:17Z
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@dusnm My solution is **not** to convince anyone not to use defederation.. so your making a lot of assumptions about my intent here.You might want to ask yourself, why do yo already find yourself disagreeing with me when I havent even made my proposal public yet?
(DIR) Post #AQ0DC2q48h3kKcqvaa by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-11-26T17:25:12Z
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@freemo I'm not specifically disagreeing with you. I'm thinking about the problem as well and deciding whether I think it's a problem.You said the fracturing of the fediverse is unwanted. Suppose it is. The main way fracturing happens is through the use of defederation. My question is not how would we address this, it's whether we need to address it.
(DIR) Post #AQ0IyanXgLiZKEdnxA by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T18:29:59Z
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@herid *scum
(DIR) Post #AQ0K9eAVai8ouzDb28 by sp6ina@qoto.org
2022-11-26T18:43:13Z
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@freemo Write, as soon as I can help I will help. :) You can count on my help.
(DIR) Post #AQ0KMKSmANmTZFoHdA by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T18:45:27Z
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@sp6ina Im writing up a proposal. I can share it with you when its ready for more eyes... in the meantime just help spread the word about the problems.
(DIR) Post #AQ0L6dU7mBl1spWOpM by anthropoid@101010.pl
2022-11-26T18:53:52Z
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@freemo I’m happy to help as well if I can. @sp6ina
(DIR) Post #AQ0LEEl5amBhVq56A4 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T18:55:15Z
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@anthropoid Sure.. i have a first draft, after i go over it a bit ill share and look for more feedback to refine it.@sp6ina
(DIR) Post #AQ0LML3Y3rEVMSZvd2 by PawelK@noagendasocial.com
2022-11-26T18:56:44Z
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@dusnm @freemo As to the last sentence of your statement, lets focus on legal status of such phrase.The short answer is: nope, nit always and not anywhere.More verbosely, at least in my and some european countries, it is illegal for a service provider to decline or cancel providing a service , unless user is carrying out with it an illegal activity. And defederation based on made up hAIDS-peach rules is this illegal. Double so AS it violates users freedom of speech.
(DIR) Post #AQ0LRWUwwossIOrqPA by PawelK@noagendasocial.com
2022-11-26T18:57:40Z
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@freemo @herid Mr Freemo, let me drop you an e-mail with a questions, ok?
(DIR) Post #AQ4kt9zxTClk6mUCxs by niclas@angrytoday.com
2022-11-28T22:01:37Z
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@dusnm I tend to agree... Is there really a problem? If "most think that defederation is not wanted", doesn't that mean that most are not defederated by definition?And those who wants to be outside that larger cluster have all their rights to do so...Maybe I am missing something important here.@freemo
(DIR) Post #AQ4mLTP318fMLyHnuK by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-28T22:17:56Z
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@niclas Some fracturing is fine... The issue here is two fold.. 1) the fracturing is happening bassed off gossip and not informed facts 2) people are threatening to defederate with anyone who doesnt defederate from the same people they do. This has a viral effect that could be quite harmful.@dusnm
(DIR) Post #AQ4mxRa6EsDDhvYrx2 by niclas@angrytoday.com
2022-11-28T22:24:49Z
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@freemo Right, but doesn't that mean that there will be one larger cluster of people who don't defederate and numerous islands of people who are in their respective preferred "safe space". Isn't that Ok?I want the bazaar and the pub, but you might want your living room.Just curious.@dusnm
(DIR) Post #AQ4nYL8DBLOUQ06u8W by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-28T22:31:28Z
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@niclas no because it doesnt create clean little islands, sadly.. it creates fractured threads where everyone is talking and you cant see half the messages, and the messages you cant see are different than what someone else can see. It drives people to ultimately smaller and smaller islands.The problem lies int he viral nature of the defederating... the current peer pressure is such that every server demands every other server block the same people they do, meanwhile each server has a different block list. When this plays out to completion everyone is forced into small niche islands and there is no fediverse, if you try to participate in a larger fediverse you are kicked out of even your small island, so no fediverse can exist by that point... it is headed there fast.@dusnm
(DIR) Post #AQ5cGg3rioCZmUPeZE by niclas@angrytoday.com
2022-11-29T07:59:44Z
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@freemo To me it sounds like you are making the assumption that most admins want go down this path, but you started with what most of us (admins) don't want. I fail to see how both can be true at the same time.Do you mean that admins who are anti-defederation will fold to user pressure? Rather than trust the "don't want those users anyway" attitude?@dusnm
(DIR) Post #AQ5d3Qb00kKE0N9mls by niclas@angrytoday.com
2022-11-29T08:08:33Z
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@freemo Maybe we have just bred a couple of generations of whiners, who are unable to handle inconvenience, debate and basic philosophy.I am sure you know the Hard Times -> Good Men -> Good Times -> Weak Men -> Hard Times.@dusnm
(DIR) Post #AQ5dR8huAjIVTTh3ce by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-11-29T08:12:49Z
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@freemo @niclas I don’t believe in weakness. I think everyone is fighting their own battle. You mentioned philosophy. Socrates would have had something to say along the lines of what you said. He thought the new generations were spoiled and could never inherit the world. I think that’s fallacious for the simple reason history proved it wrong. Every generation thinks they got it all figured out.
(DIR) Post #AQ5kHgtMuyXUHRUsts by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T09:29:33Z
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@niclas I am suggesting that admins who are somewhat neutral on defederation, will do it when needed, but wont go crazy defederating either, they will and do easily cave to peer pressure and defederate from instances they otherwise dont want tto simply to prevent being blocked themselves.@dusnm
(DIR) Post #AQ5oQjHpmf0A87VRVQ by niclas@angrytoday.com
2022-11-29T10:16:01Z
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@freemo Ah! So the "I was just following orders, to avoid being punished."-mentality.Yeah, you might be right. But it also means that "most admins are ok with defederation" and by taking that stance, they assign themselves into a life in ever smaller islands (as you said).Self-inflicted, or suicide, by "playing it safe".@dusnm
(DIR) Post #AQ5oaqPIAKWH6ookgC by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-29T10:17:50Z
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@niclas Most admins are ok with defederation from instances who deserve it in their mind. Most admins are reasonable in who they think deserves it (when not under peer pressure). Most admins seem to block instances with rampant harassment. While we dont defederate here I am not advocating everyone needs to be anti-defederation, just be reasonable and informed about it.@dusnm