Post APz6aqmtBlmVMFHvBA by mattblaze@federate.social
(DIR) More posts by mattblaze@federate.social
(DIR) Post #APy6XtBBe3YokWHUHo by mattblaze@federate.social
2022-11-25T06:08:40Z
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One of the things I keep hearing here, over and over, is that "new" people on this platform shouldn't complain about things they find confusing or that don't meet their needs.That's exactly wrong. New uses, who've not yet adapted themselves to possibly unworkable or inscrutable interfaces and limitations, are often in a unique position to have insights that old hands can no longer see.Perhaps you're tired of hearing the same complaints over and over. But think about why people make them.
(DIR) Post #APy6XtfJq1fCFyNYFk by mattblaze@federate.social
2022-11-25T06:12:43Z
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You're not doing the developers any favors when you tell new users to shut up. You're stifling a unique source of important feedback for them.
(DIR) Post #APy6XuDLnUsxxWIjIW by mattblaze@federate.social
2022-11-25T06:31:28Z
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And yes, I'm an arrogant bastard who thinks his opinions and experience might have value. You should be, too.
(DIR) Post #APy6XuljjeOJgAOBtY by mattblaze@federate.social
2022-11-25T15:40:17Z
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I’m a well-known white guy with a pretty deep technical background. If people are saying “shut up, newbie” when I comment on things I find confusing or difficult here, imagine what they’re saying to members of marginalized communities.
(DIR) Post #APy6XvDk3WnD51UYXw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T17:01:03Z
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@mattblaze > I’m a well-known white guy with a pretty deep technical background.Have you considered that's *why* people are telling you - in particular - to pipe down? Are you aware of the history of people from marginalized groups of various kinds coming here, often after being driven out of one of the DataFarms, and remaking the place in their own image? I'm sure you mean well, but some of us are ) are getting bit sick of people teaching grandma to suck eggs, and b) not very diplomatic ;)
(DIR) Post #APy70PJTlYhyWDl4fg by mattblaze@federate.social
2022-11-25T17:05:54Z
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@strypey can you give me an example of something I’ve said that’s inappropriate?
(DIR) Post #APy77rQBeuaPioRxGi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T17:07:44Z
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@mattblaze A lot of the complaints about fediverse UX are;* perfectly valid, but well known. It gets grating to keep having new issues filed (so to speak) about known bugs* user error, requiring helpdesk, not fixes. We are all doing our best to orientate thousands of newbies in a really short time, and I don't know of anyone who's getting paid* criticisms of design decisions made for specific reasons (eg harassment mitigation) and it's irritating when people don't care to learn the history
(DIR) Post #APyIfMOacKq2q3sZ84 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T19:16:59Z
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@mattblaze I certainly can. I saw you to tell someone to "fuck off" elsewhere in this thread, but not without provocation. Which segues nicely into my point. In the OP at the head of this thread, you said:> Perhaps you're tired of hearing the same complaints over and over.Yes, some of us are. The unpaid Eternal September helpdesk experience is making some of us experience those complaints as provocation. Especially those who write code unpaid as well as doing unpaid helpdesk. It's a lot.
(DIR) Post #APyIttkNPkcmKY0Bg8 by mattblaze@federate.social
2022-11-25T19:19:38Z
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@strypey Perhaps if you find being an unpaid member of the helpdesk team to be a burden, you should stop doing it.Are people directing their comments at you specifically? You're under no obligation to correct everyone who's Wrong on the Internet.
(DIR) Post #APycTiRKpUmkoet7my by downey@floss.social
2022-11-25T22:59:01Z
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@strypey Especially when it's all this dude has done since day 1 of his arrival.
(DIR) Post #APyjYMB1jJ7ytaQ77Y by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T00:18:21Z
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@LACanuck Pretty sure there's an XKCD about that. Mind you, if there isn't an XKCD about something it's probably not on the internet ;)
(DIR) Post #APyjm5L38BnIj6edOK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T00:20:50Z
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@darkflib Is this a rhetorical question?
(DIR) Post #APyjyh0AvRkP0ou0QK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T00:23:06Z
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@shatter Well I can't read him anymore, more's the pity, as he appears to have blocked me. Normally it's the person *receiving* the verbal abuse who does that, but Matt is clearly a pioneer ;)
(DIR) Post #APykIKb7vtQRJqYCTw by mattblaze@federate.social
2022-11-25T19:20:12Z
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@strypey And if you find my use of language inappropriate, you can fuck right off too.
(DIR) Post #APykIL2QIPGAgVK01o by thegaryhawkins@infosec.exchange
2022-11-25T19:31:29Z
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@mattblaze @strypey You're coming across as a bit of an entitled dick, the kind of behaviour I'd hoped we'd left behind at the other place.
(DIR) Post #APykILO300YblZRGjY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T00:26:38Z
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@thegaryhawkins You're talking to the mirror, friend. Glad you're enjoying yourself here, but I'm going to mute you for a while, because name-calling isn't welcome in my @mentions. Have a nice day, week, month, or whatever suits :)@mattblaze
(DIR) Post #APysihraqzNydeLA5g by dodgethequeue@nerdculture.de
2022-11-26T02:01:01Z
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@strypey @shatter I have to admit mastodon has something twitter does not have - passive aggressive patronizing comments like yours
(DIR) Post #APz6aq39vnCZ4PtOts by jxyzn@mastodon.lwr.wtf
2022-11-25T06:11:44Z
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@mattblaze though "it wasn't this way on the other site" shouldn't be the rationale.
(DIR) Post #APz6aqmtBlmVMFHvBA by mattblaze@federate.social
2022-11-25T06:15:36Z
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@jxyzn Who says? If someone says, "I prefer it this other way", that's useful to know.
(DIR) Post #APz6arInH9ImxCDOuO by sminnee@mastodon.nz
2022-11-25T06:46:21Z
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@jxyzn @mattblaze there’s a tool, and there’s a community. How you treat the feedback of a new user of a tool is different from how you treat the feedback of a new member joining a community. Conflation of the two is probably a big source of the differences of opinion here.
(DIR) Post #APz6roT549155S6xMG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T04:39:35Z
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> How you treat the feedback of a new user of a tool is different from how you treat the feedback of a new member joining a community. This whole post was so beautifully put @sminnee, far more on-point that anything I managed to get across in this thread.@jxyzn
(DIR) Post #APzA7Vo2WB29hh5lei by Susanbee@hachyderm.io
2022-11-26T00:20:55Z
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@downey @strypey Jaysus… I can’t believe what I just read. Have to commend your incredible patience…
(DIR) Post #APzA7WHSkmZNAwrGW8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T05:16:00Z
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@Susanbee @downey The biggest problem I saw, rereading what I could see of that thread, is a failure to read upthread and respond to posts in context. Eg my Eternal September comment was a callback to my first reply to Matt, where I talked about how we (the veterans) are doing our best to show 1000s of newbies around... as his OP asked us to do! The people who replied with patronizing rhetorical questions about whether I, personally, had been demanded to work helpdesk, utterly missed that.
(DIR) Post #APzAvuAODj8bjfZjDE by Susanbee@hachyderm.io
2022-11-26T05:25:05Z
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@strypey @downey I read it and could really empathize with the points you were trying to make. I appreciate the culture that’s here and irrespective of how many years of blah blah experience someone has, it’s incredibly rich to barge in and start asking for renovations immediately. I think it was the patronizing tone that got me (oh he’s blocked). Not helpful.
(DIR) Post #APzFf8IouS7SQRLAMy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T06:18:09Z
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@shatter I'm not sure how to respond to this. I'm sorry to hear Matt's had a hard time on Titter. Given that specialty, it must have been a hard few years in any medium.Having said that, I'm not convinced that makes it OK for him to lash out at people who are trying to engage with him in good faith. Even if we say it is, the key point is it's not going to help him have a better time here, than he had there. If you shout at people, most of them will shout back, and you're stuck in shouty world.
(DIR) Post #APznRbAcBFJSLPDika by guardianproject@social.librem.one
2022-11-26T12:36:40Z
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@mattblaze This is true, but it is equally true that volunteer contributors get tired of being told they're doing it wrong by masses on the internet, which often means doing work they don't want to do. Mastodon is free software, anyone is free to change it as they see fit. Or pay someone else to do it, or orgranize a company around improving the free software.Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. users are the product, so of course those companies will respond and keep them hooked.
(DIR) Post #APzuqzsi8o5ju4u6m8 by mattblaze@federate.social
2022-11-26T13:59:41Z
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@guardianproject You’re saying that people shouldn’t discuss what don’t like and what doesn’t work for them about a system because it might hurt some open source developers’ feelings if they see it?That seems extremely unrealistic.
(DIR) Post #AQ0FwuqNsi5F3STltw by jarrodfrates@infosec.exchange
2022-11-26T17:56:03Z
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@guardianproject @mattblaze I think it's too simplistic to take the FOSS motto of "anyone can change/fix what they think is wrong" and apply it to federated services. Changes to the protocol will likely break federation, changes to the software at the other end of the protocol can break functionality. This isn't running a server that acts weird but almost nobody sees it. This is running a server that actively talks to a bunch of others in unpredictable patterns, and if you undermine that intentionally or unintentionally, it can have unexpected consequences.
(DIR) Post #AQ0NfLMDMkBbhnV1dI by ShallowWater@mas.to
2022-11-25T07:31:15Z
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@mattblaze @jxyzn No. I am pretty sure they have not done their homework to understand the design of mastodon. It is not a piece of beta code like Post and Hive.
(DIR) Post #AQ0NfLvfEwXhTk5Kt6 by gloam@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-11-25T08:35:39Z
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@ShallowWater @jxyzn @mattblaze Nobody wants to do homework or understand the design of Mastodon, nor should they have to. Mastodon will always be a fine hub for tech savvy people, but it won’t be mainstream unless it becomes as simple and transparent to sign up and use as anything else. I don’t think that’s controversial, just basic UI/UX. And certainly a solvable problem. Depends on the long-term project goals
(DIR) Post #AQ0NfMThCPlTBI0Vvs by ShallowWater@mas.to
2022-11-25T08:39:17Z
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@gloam @jxyzn @mattblaze That is just not true. I spent 40 years writing software and I have written UIs in Smalltalk and Matlab.There is no user interface where you do not have to learn something.The only reason this is an issue here is because the new users expect something like Twitter. And it isn't like Twitter.Read this:https://uxdesign.cc/mastodon-is-antiviral-design-42f090ab8d51
(DIR) Post #AQ0OoMA3qVeMl8fzTk by eighthave@social.librem.one
2022-11-26T19:35:24Z
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@ShallowWater @gloam @jxyzn @mattblaze It goes deeper than not being Twitter, Twitter comes from startup and corporate culture, where users are the product. Mastodon comes from free software and hacker community culture, were users are people that you want to communicate with, free from abuse from random people on the internet.