Post APyTBULNbIG2IXKuUi by sam@masto.dotsod.com
(DIR) More posts by sam@masto.dotsod.com
(DIR) Post #APySU78I1V1vrFWzGS by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-25T21:07:06Z
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I've never been more aggravated by the fact that unlisted posts go to my followers. Is there a fediverse platform where they don't? Here's me thinking I can use unlisted posts to have loads of side conversations, without flooding my followers. But noooo! Also hashtags *not* working in unlisted posts, why not? I can't spare my followers a post on a niche topic, while still making them available to anyone searching for the kind of stuff in them? Why not?
(DIR) Post #APyTBULNbIG2IXKuUi by sam@masto.dotsod.com
2022-11-25T21:14:51Z
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@strypey thats a pretty specific demand. can it be made possible in masto?
(DIR) Post #APyUnttJAHBQUQ5P7o by TheCoolest@dftba.club
2022-11-25T21:33:00Z
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@strypey the weirdest thing about this is, unlisted posts don't show up to followers unless they're replies to someone else's post. I don't understand that bit... feel like even the complete opposite would be preferable
(DIR) Post #APyWe4Y8shTEYjcxRg by beadsland@mastodon.social
2022-11-25T21:53:40Z
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@strypey This gets even more messy when interacting with someone who unlists their replies.On one hand, want HTs in my responses to be searchable. OTOH want to respect their choice to unlist the convo.The logic of non-searchable if unlisted seems to go against the praxis of unlisted as not surfacing things folk might not want to see more of: A search query seems a pretty explicit affirmative consent to see something. Yet that consent is denied by design?
(DIR) Post #APyYssv4bVLck0Xn04 by xangoh@kolektiva.social
2022-11-25T22:18:46Z
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@strypey this is a UI failure and a language failure. Mastodon presents us with posts organized in lists (home, local, federated) and then surfaces an "unlisted" visibility, so how would you expect anything for an "unlisted" post except that it DOESN'T APPEAR ON THOSE LISTS. I'm supposed to recognize that's not true from some opaque rubric about being "opted-out of discovery features"?I unlist any reply that I think won't have meaning outside the context of the post I'm replying to. That's a visibility scope too, and it makes intuitive sense and should probably be the default on replies
(DIR) Post #APyso37JGFdE0FEt2e by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T02:02:02Z
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@TheCoolest > unlisted posts don't show up to followers unless they're replies to someone else's post.Are you sure? Now I'm really confused. I've been using Mastodon exclusively for so long, I've started ignoring that other fediverse software doesn't do everything the same way. But this sort of these really does need to be standardized in the protocol, or it become impossibly complex for anyone to understand.
(DIR) Post #APyt1qPzGtb8flYNMG by TheCoolest@dftba.club
2022-11-26T02:04:28Z
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@strypey Well in the past few weeks, this is what I've witnessed with Mastodon... When someone posts unlisted, I don't see it in home. When they reply unlisted, I do.Actually hmmade me realize, maybe it's just when the replies @ me
(DIR) Post #APytQsWiZL9YS4dfJw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T02:09:03Z
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@beadsland I'm not going to go deep on this right now. I remember from our last conversation that you're a rigorous thinker. I haven't slept for about 24 hours, which is at least part of the reason this whole issue is confusing me. But these are all very good questions and well worth exploring, either on the Mastodon forum or on SocialHub:https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/.
(DIR) Post #APyxQeq1rWQpoXp0CW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T02:53:49Z
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@xangoh Right, that tears it. I've had 4 replies to this, none of them telling me I'm just wrong or crazy for expecting unlisted posts to work this way. I'm going to desnark my OP and post it as discussion starter on the Mastodon forum right now.https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/discussions/21652@TheCoolest @sam @beadsland
(DIR) Post #APyyS8PXUrwdmBhQMi by xangoh@kolektiva.social
2022-11-26T03:05:08Z
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@strypey @TheCoolest @sam @beadsland this has sent me down the rabbit hole of looking into the advanced web interface's insuppressible content column and it so completely violates my sense of good UX practice that I've started muttering to myself and wondering which of us is madder, it or me
(DIR) Post #APzSpldgoJroj3VFk8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T08:45:43Z
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@TheCoolest Somebody tried to explain it to me on the forums. I'll have to read it when I've had some sleep and some time off. It seems much more complicated than I had thought!
(DIR) Post #APzTOwmzLaDXRTcyXI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T08:52:04Z
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> the advanced web interface's insuppressible content column... is utterly overwhelming to me. It's the reason I first started using Pinafore back when it was the default UI. But it's horses for courses I guess, some people absolutely love it, and I love that the 'verse can provide different interfaces to serve different needs. @xangoh @TheCoolest @sam @beadsland
(DIR) Post #APzTyRJfq7Z2Fvq8v2 by TheCoolest@dftba.club
2022-11-26T03:14:59Z
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@xangoh @strypey @sam @beadsland You know what, I'm starting to really get a better grasp of why Bluesky's AT protocol is a thing. While ActivityPub is an improvement over OStatus and ActivityPump, it's got a looooong way to go. Do y'all think Mastodon will eventually add support for AT Protocol?
(DIR) Post #APzTyRt7iJv81sQSAq by beadsland@mastodon.social
2022-11-26T03:32:15Z
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@TheCoolest @xangoh @strypey @sam From what very minuscule little am understanding of AT, seems to be doing a good amount of reinvention.Which can mean something amazingly different or something that never really gets off the ground, let alone is attractive for other systems to support through integration.As is only waitlist promiseware at the moment, who's to say one way or the other?
(DIR) Post #APzTySjEaZbWdUo4Om by xangoh@kolektiva.social
2022-11-26T04:18:53Z
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@beadsland @TheCoolest @strypey @sam big thread on problems with ActivityPub over here: https://infosec.exchange/@atax1a/109400028861061670if I remember right, masto was represented in some capacity in AT at first and then pulled out. not sure why, but protocol development and adoption is implicitly political--which is also to say, I can't help feeling like the twitter mess is going to blow stink back onto AT, whether bluesky is formally separate from twitter or not
(DIR) Post #APzTyT9T12aVwr51Hs by beadsland@mastodon.social
2022-11-26T05:09:43Z
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@xangoh @TheCoolest @strypey @sam Personally, would be more excited by promise of algorithmic choice if weren't sold as "open market of algorithms".Big hurdle for many projects is wizbang UX vs. insufficient network effects to promote adoption. Decoupling the two is something fedi already does to a degree.But the (neo)liberal spin of "open market" just rubs wrong and leaves an (st)icky residue behind in the wake of said rubbing.This w/o even messy stink of guanosite.
(DIR) Post #APzTyTdFEKPJRD0nhY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-26T08:58:29Z
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@beadsland > if weren't sold as "open market of algorithms".Exactly. BlueSky seems like a bob both ways. A way to let go of centralization while keeping advertizing and probably a certain amount of DataFarming. Hard pass.Having said that, OStatus and the Diaspora variant weren't the final iteration of the 'verse and ActivityPub won't be either. But I'm much more intrigued by Streams (Zot/Nomad), Libervia (XMPP) or @cwebber's work on Spritely@xangoh @TheCoolest @sam
(DIR) Post #APzWHwG5Do8LdDaP2G by beadsland@mastodon.social
2022-11-26T09:24:23Z
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@strypey @cwebber @xangoh @TheCoolest @sam Yeah, wasn't even thinking it in terms of data surveillance, although that's ofc an inescapable consequence.It wants to evoke for potential users the cloying ease and familiarity of Google Play or Apple stores. It does so by leaning heavily into conservative idioms of free trade as constitutive of democracy: "open market".To even pluck that term out of the zeitgeist belies any claim to AT doing different from what came before.