Post APxyD3BET5c43Fr3XE by dnkrupinski@barcamp.social
(DIR) More posts by dnkrupinski@barcamp.social
(DIR) Post #APwUeLOleKLMafKAtM by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2022-11-24T22:18:20Z
4 likes, 4 repeats
Seeing Big Tech folks jump into the fediverse and – without so much as a “how do you do, fellow kids?” – roll up their sleeves to write the rules, dream up commercial services, and pontificate about how advertising should run on it. 👀 #fediverse #BigTech #corporateCapture #warning
(DIR) Post #APwVcrd0wt71vMqX0S by nephitejnf@social.realnephestate.xyz
2022-11-24T22:32:54.686798Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral Wait advertising? Maybe they should donate to keep the instance they are using operational.
(DIR) Post #APwW0LlX453W3Q1tQW by MMS21@seal.cafe
2022-11-24T22:35:25.021109Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
This is what happens when you clone an existing site. They see the UI and bring over their dumbass opinions.
(DIR) Post #APwY4h4Rzj6BCJ4r7g by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2022-11-24T22:22:21Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@dnkrupinski Never underestimate the impact of capital on a system that has inherent economies of scale and network effects. It happened with the web. No reason why it can’t happen with the fediverse unless we’re all diligent in resisting it from the very start.
(DIR) Post #APwY5iPYUqPje0R6GW by dnkrupinski@barcamp.social
2022-11-24T22:37:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral You can't buy an existing instance in the fediverse. And even if you are successful buying one or two or three: the other instances will deconnect your instance and the users will take their data and go away and start over somewhere else. You can take all your followers with you, you just loose your toots, but you still have your personal backups. So: there is nobody who can make the rules for you, like #Murks (englisch: "botch") is making them for you on the dark side of the web.
(DIR) Post #APwY5j8Dom8vsXKlt2 by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2022-11-24T22:42:41Z
2 likes, 3 repeats
@dnkrupinski I’m Big Corp and I have several hundred million “users.” I just added ActivityPub. I’m now the largest instance by several orders of magnitude. All your friends are on me. Your workmates are on me. Heck, even your child’s school is on me. I start making some rules. If your instance (of 1, 100, 1,000?…) doesn’t follow them, I defederate from you. You can’t reach any of those hundreds of millions of people – sorry, “users.” Your friends ask you: “why aren’t you on the fediverse?”
(DIR) Post #APwY5kiPvggqn5HBwW by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2022-11-24T22:47:48Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@dnkrupinski That’s just one scenario that appears to be just around the corner based on some recent news. Others include evolving the protocol at a corporate standards body with the leadership of Big Tech, in the interests of Big Tech, and the possibilities of VC-backed/corporate “startups” trying to capture search or spam prevention on the platform and extend from there.(That’s just off the top of my head.)I’d highly recommend resistance to any “the adults are in the room now” plays.
(DIR) Post #APwYmM7vE1KMyyWLrM by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2022-11-24T23:08:14.758190Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I'm loath to defererate with anyone, but you're making a really good argument for defederating from big tech if they try to step in...Embrace, Extend, Extinguish is exactly how we ended up in our big tech nightmare.
(DIR) Post #APwbaCqwBBR0biTUO0 by tool_man@mstdn.io
2022-11-24T23:39:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sj_zero @dnkrupinski @aral Like XMPP for chat. It's still around, but you can't just hook up to chat with someone on Facebook or Google now.
(DIR) Post #APxMxHdPGLeNwZeSTQ by boss@xarxamontgri.masto.host
2022-11-25T08:30:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aralI think that you can follow any user in the Fedi, even when instances are defederated. Am I wrong?@dnkrupinski
(DIR) Post #APxOCRQ1GfVkaQBJnE by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2022-11-25T08:39:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@boss @dnkrupinski Not via the core protocol as far as I know but you could via other means if their posts are publicly available (in the stalking sense of the word “follow”).
(DIR) Post #APxOZGTU7k3FIvgZ96 by dnkrupinski@barcamp.social
2022-11-24T23:17:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral I don't think, you have to fear the #future of the #fediverse although there might be pitfalls in the coming months. And i read about #tumblr will start to be part of the fediverse but #WordPress is already part of it. You can't do anything with every service that's the reason for #Mastodon, #Pixelfed, #Peertube, #Misskey, #Funkwhale, just to mention the services with most users.
(DIR) Post #APxOZH4LufXf9Gw0bw by gabriel@fedi.gvisoc.com
2022-11-25T07:04:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dnkrupinski @aral one of the risks that were pointed out (linked below) was the possibility of intermixing ads on the federation, so that they display ads within a stream of posts that, in their home instances, are ads-free.The issue would go further when using surveillance and behavioral tracking to curate how your posts would appear in the some of the big-techified instances (as twitter does). That would open the doors to surveillance capitalism across the board. https://cloudisland.nz/@aurynn/109394899800374805
(DIR) Post #APxOZIwyv2pmyzV9Oq by gabriel@fedi.gvisoc.com
2022-11-25T07:06:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dnkrupinski @aral I can't see many more effective countermeasures than defederation, if that ever happened, 100% agreeing with the author of the above link.What would you think?
(DIR) Post #APxTH5LFHD0LKnyxk0 by dnkrupinski@barcamp.social
2022-11-25T09:40:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@boss I think, you are wroing if you keep in mind: If i'm user A on instance 1 and want to talk to user B on instance 2, that will only be possible if instance 1 doesn't block instance 2 by default and vice versa. So if i'm am member of an instance and this instance blocks a whole other instance, there is no way (as a member of this instance) to get in touch with members on the blocked instance.
(DIR) Post #APxyD2hoEU4qa05Yfo by tkenben@mstdn.io
2022-11-25T14:12:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dnkrupinski @boss I believe there is a way. It's a bit convoluted. You would use an RSS reader and get their posts that way. To actually have a conversation with them, I suppose you would have to follow each others' timelines and be specific in the post.
(DIR) Post #APxyD3BET5c43Fr3XE by dnkrupinski@barcamp.social
2022-11-25T15:26:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tkenben @boss You must have knowledge of the other user: If instance 1 with user A ist blocking instance 2 with user B, there is no chance for user A to search for user B. So i need to know, that there is a user B on instance 2!And then i can get his/her rss Feed. And then we can move to instance C and live happy until the end of our lives.
(DIR) Post #APxyD3ns9QWNz5vulM by boss@xarxamontgri.masto.host
2022-11-25T15:27:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dnkrupinski @tkenben But "not federating" is not the same as "blocked", isn't it?
(DIR) Post #APxyHWWPJq8iD8tNUu by boss@xarxamontgri.masto.host
2022-11-25T15:28:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dnkrupinski @tkenben Or through hashtags ?
(DIR) Post #APxzTfzQ2jnr0KoxRQ by dnkrupinski@barcamp.social
2022-11-25T15:41:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@boss @tkenben If instance A doesn't block instance B, the first added user of instance B from a user from instance A will federate instance A and instance B, because instance A has to "prepare" an inbox / outbox for the user of its instance and instance B has to do the same for its user. This federation is not a permanant connection but there a channcels to transfer messages between the inbox/outbox of the users.
(DIR) Post #APy5yhu5ZmyJduVXKy by ThePaulMcBride@indieweb.social
2022-11-24T22:43:13Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@aral I think some form of advertising is inevitable. Is that a bad thing though? I'd rather my content lived on a server where the admins and moderators of that server are making enough money to cover their costs. The server is far more likely to be around in a year than if it's being run on vibes and thanks.Maybe we should be trying to work out a way that we can do this ethically and without all of the creepy tracking.
(DIR) Post #APy60HXoYBNsTCq8Dw by phoe@functional.cafe
2022-11-24T23:15:46Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ThePaulMcBride I'd rather my content lived on a server where the admins and moderators of that server are making enough money to cover their costs.That's literally called "donations". There's more than enough money to keep our instance running right now, for example, even after that major growth of the Fediverse from the past weeks. I'd rather throw a few bucks at my admin than have them introduce any sort of advertisements on my instance, thank you.@aral
(DIR) Post #APy60QA2VwiLC4mluq by ThePaulMcBride@indieweb.social
2022-11-24T23:22:55Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@phoe @aral donations could definitely work, but only if people actually make them and it’s consistent. If no one else on your server is paying donations there’s still a good chance it won’t be around for long.I would genuinely love to be wrong though. If we can find a way to ensure that the #fediverse is self sustaining I’m all for it.
(DIR) Post #APy63SVqE9rNM8Qq00 by phoe@functional.cafe
2022-11-24T23:27:51Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ThePaulMcBride @aral From my experience people are willing to pay to keep their instances running and a huge lot of users will prefer donations to selling themselves via ads. If money ever gets really tight, there's plenty of ways to run software that uses even less resources, e.g. Pleroma.But again, small Mastodon servers are sustainable enough - I'm using one as my home instance right now.
(DIR) Post #APy64ZvQ9YJsdRvjwu by ploum@mamot.fr
2022-11-25T08:44:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@aral : I had this exact same feeling about Tristan Harris. This guy understood the "everything is designed to catch our attention".So he basically created a whole business to catch our attention to the fact that everything is designed to catch our attention.Those people just don’t have the brain to think different (despite the slogan). The real, deep brainworm is the "there’s no alternative".— World is worst because of our startups— Let’s create a startup to solve that.
(DIR) Post #APy65kE1LLykrzBbw8 by ntnsndr@social.coop
2022-11-24T22:34:07Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@aral @dnkrupinski This is a huge and very real danger. I would love to explore strategies for counteracting it.
(DIR) Post #APy65kbPwMh62Y8IPA by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2022-11-24T22:52:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ntnsndr Anytime, Nathan. Let’s have a chat sometime :)@dnkrupinski
(DIR) Post #APy65l2iIsWpPCu5x2 by jonny@social.coop
2022-11-25T08:45:14Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@aral @ntnsndr @dnkrupinski i was barely alive at the time, but reading the interviews with legacy information executives opine about the lack of a business model on the internet since it was designed by a bunch of "hippie anarchists" is chillingly familiar at this moment
(DIR) Post #APy67LsWpoCnwHtrJw by luzifuchs@imd.social
2022-11-24T23:05:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@aral I can understand how people cannot see this happening to the fediverse right now. And all given explanation on how this won’t work are intriguingly logical and rational. BUT can we please acknowledge just how irrational and illogical humanity is? It is basically in our nature to destroy and rebuild the things we create so of course, especially with a powerful component like capitalist interest, we will be able to destroy the fediverse. 1/n
(DIR) Post #APy6C28VfBIm9pbiUa by debacle@framapiaf.org
2022-11-25T10:06:06Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@aral @dnkrupinski I'm not sure, if this can be compared, but as someone in the #Jabber crowd, it was interesting to see, how Matrix with a lot of VC and gov't money could almost push #XMPP aside.At least, Matrix still is free, open, federated and has tons of nice features (and AFAIK no anti-features). No hostility involved as in the case of Signal. But still an example, how money can shuffle the cards.
(DIR) Post #APy6DKd6OHJ7nsXHHc by Dianora@octodon.social
2022-11-24T23:14:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ntnsndr @aral @dnkrupinski Lippmann more or less (100 years ago) made the claim it would be impossible let's prove him wrong. ;)
(DIR) Post #APy6E313MabtSu51iy by boud@framapiaf.org
2022-11-24T23:35:52Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Dianora @ntnsndr @aral @dnkrupinski #ElinorOstrom's 8 design parameters for stable local common-pool resource management may help [1]:1 group boundaries2 local adaptation of resources3 participatory decision-making4 monitoring (accountable to resource users)5 graduated sanctions for norm violators6 cheap, easy-access conflict resolution7 self-determination accepted by external authorities8 nesting/federationWhich most need improvement in the #Fediverse?[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom%23Design_principles_for_Common_Pool_Resource_%29CPR%29_institution
(DIR) Post #APyDV7nZXCKQtrrf0K by jeffcliff@shitposter.club
2022-11-25T18:18:56.678920Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dnkrupinski @aral @bananarama > 2) You can't solve a problem between people with technicsI just told you 3 ways you could do just that. We don't need to solve *every* problem between people but there 3, major outstanding technical problems yet to be solved that would, in fact, solve problems between people currently at play. > Hasn't worked before, It has worked before, because we're communicating at all. Even 50 years ago we wouldn't be having this conversation and that's because people have used technical solutions to solve problems> just cover it up oder push it to somewhere else.'Pushing it somewhere else' is a short-term solution> (3) You are searching for https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon ?No I'm not. Fuck github and fuck you for linking to it. Github does not count as open source, and shouldn't be used by anyone. I have my own fork of mastodon outside of github which is a more legitimate place to drop issues than that is.