Post APuXJOkdtqSOSDL9kG by audioflyer79@mstdn.social
(DIR) More posts by audioflyer79@mstdn.social
(DIR) Post #APSjXOQVhKJTbKeioK by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T13:47:22Z
3 likes, 8 repeats
I mentioned this in a private message to someone recently about why a small handful of servers block qoto. I wanted to reiterate it here for the new comers on QOTO who dont know the history:So there are some servers out there that demand every server int he network block every instance they do, and if a server doesnt block an instance they block then they block you in rettatliation.Their reason for this is quite flawed but it goes like this.. If we federate with a bad actor instance and we boost one of their posts then their users will see it and defeat the purpose of the block. The problem is, this isnt how it actually works. If they block a server and we boost it, they wont see the boost, thats how blocks work.The issue becomes even more complicated when you consider the fact that these servers, by virtue of their policy, have huge block lists where they block tons of major servers. So in order to satisfy them we too would have to block a huge number of servers.This means you have a choice, you either join a server that isnt blocked, but has a huge block list themselves, or, you join a server that doesnt block and be blocked by a small handful of servers. Obviously that means on QOTO you will have bigger view of the world than you would on any of these others servers. In fact QOTO has onne of the largest federation footprints of any server in the network.I want to also explain why we choose the decision we did. Years ago when this controversy started and servers across the fediverse started blocking there was a divide of people taking sides. WOTO was one of the few servers that didnt take sides and allowed people read content from any server (but with strict hate speech rules). This caused a huge influx of people,s pecifically from the LGBTQ community, onto our server. It turns out many people relied on us not-blocking for their physical safety. There were big name biggots (like milo yanappolus) who were on the network. They used their accounts here to watch his account for doxing so they could warn themselves and their community and protect themselves accordingly. In fact we added a feature just for them called subscriptions which allowed them to monitor accounts without following them so they could do so anonymously.In tthe end for the safety of the LGBTQ community here we refused to engage in mass server blocking and instead encouraged our users to block servers on an individual basis and provided access to block lists for them to do so. But some really misguided servers blocked us anyway.Thankfully the servers blocking us are few and far between and are limited to only the most excessive and aggressive block lists. As I said, QOTO has one of the largest federation footprints on the fediverse,#mastoadmin
(DIR) Post #APSjk0qQgbhGEAnSmO by Real_Edwin@cum.salon
2022-11-10T13:48:50.166567Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo words words words
(DIR) Post #APSjk1sErMjpQ4eQEq by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T13:49:37Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Real_Edwin Yes, they are words, very good!
(DIR) Post #APSjudfDDFI3WDcJHs by JoshuaACasey@qoto.org
2022-11-10T13:51:39Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
@freemo that's another reason why I like this instance. Instances should not be responsible for blocking. Individual USERS should be responsible for blocking stuff that they don't want to see.
(DIR) Post #APSk6TvDG6DemOkS8G by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T13:53:44Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@JoshuaACasey Agreed, especially when the system makes it so easy for individuals to block. You onnly need to block servers not people and you address mostly all bad actors.. so a dozen or two blocks and an individual is good. There is no NEED for a master block list forced upon them because the block lists are so manageable.Moreover users can just import the blocklist as a CSV, so it literally takes a few seconds.
(DIR) Post #APSkHLPzDPihajK22C by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2022-11-10T13:55:45Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@freemo Thanks for thinking it through. I'm regularly gladdened that I stumbled into this server instead of another.
(DIR) Post #APSkMR1nmk8WRERBD6 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T13:56:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LouisIngenthron This issue has been a long time battle on the fediverse, and not an easy one... Luckily very few servers are still an issue... I hope one day they come to their senses but eh, it is what it is.
(DIR) Post #APSkl9sweuvwVh5Fjs by gpowerf@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:01:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo I'm glad I chose this instance. Thanks for this insightful update.
(DIR) Post #APSknzpqTt1wD2zGLI by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:01:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gpowerf You are welcome. It has beenn a pleasure having you so far.
(DIR) Post #APSl6YwMhR9KIZtDns by nullifidian@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:05:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo I mirror @gpowerf's sentiment. I also couldn't find any donation info on the about pages...
(DIR) Post #APSlSro1EtEBBBcaIq by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:09:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nullifidian I appreciate the desire to donate. For those who insist i cann pass along donations details. But truth be told ive donated tens of thousands to QOTO and we are more than ok on money for years to come. If you want to help out just be active, contribute, and find ways to help.@gpowerf
(DIR) Post #APSlYGCLyZ9MHNZjbU by nullifidian@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:10:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo You, sir, are a gent. 🎩
(DIR) Post #APSlfOJOCzPHTCGaw4 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:11:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nullifidian ::bows:: thank you
(DIR) Post #APSlnPBmpXdMVXX2aO by lavenderlens@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:12:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo Me too. Glad I chose here, albeit still only understood about half of that😎
(DIR) Post #APSltjOmbWwuvMcxGa by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:13:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lavenderlens It is great to have you. Luckily me and the rest of the community are always happy to help if you have any questions.
(DIR) Post #APSm5x45cSmqmgm8FU by STORM@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:16:03Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@freemo @nullifidian @gpowerf :catjam: freemo best admin there is. You dropped this sir, 👑
(DIR) Post #APSmAxIgAieaxhzA1o by lavenderlens@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:16:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo 😎
(DIR) Post #APSmDbRXtNBy2hOYcK by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:17:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@STORM Much appreciate the praise, it means a lot to me to know you feel I will do a good job with managing the community interests and make this a place you want to be.@nullifidian @gpowerf
(DIR) Post #APSmXdBt6YdrFncae0 by post@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:21:01Z
0 likes, 4 repeats
@freemo Thank you, this is a good example of using reason appropriately to pursue noble goals.Additionally, you've removed the character limit on your instance, making your users responsible for writing posts of the appropriate length instead of imposing a limitation.This story teaches us that it is not enough to free oneself from the explicit control of central authorities, it is also necessary for everyone to be a responsible person so that the rights of all are respected.Ironically, many people who implement these blocks are used to calling others "fascists" as a condemnation of authoritarianism.
(DIR) Post #APSmo4uRoal1r5J44W by skobkin@lor.sh
2022-11-10T14:24:03Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@freemo Good decision.Some people just don't understand that forcing server blocks not only protects someone from the "unpleasant" communications, but also prohibits other users from communicating with their peers or finding important information.
(DIR) Post #APSmpAW0STbxWyOVPs by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:24:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@post honestly you can post up to the 65K limit and it isnt a huge issue. Basically if your post is long it gets truncated with a "read more" link... so no actual harm is done.Only way you could abuse it is if you purposely used it to flood the network. But if you do that it will get auto reported and youll get blocked.
(DIR) Post #APSmublaZ9JbUtHCzY by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:25:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@skobkin Exactly... and prevents them from being able to investigate or be aware of attacks on them that may endanger their lives!
(DIR) Post #APSnp10jtYI40YGBc0 by Real_Edwin@cum.salon
2022-11-10T13:51:17.358945Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo ok virgin
(DIR) Post #APSnp1To9TXhShrOvA by worldsendless@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:35:27Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Real_Edwin @freemo Great way to make the point! I have now personally blocked Edwin's server instance.
(DIR) Post #APSnu11rFtNjVnASOW by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:36:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@worldsendless With a server name like that I am not surprised :)@Real_Edwin
(DIR) Post #APSpEErrc2WuB5hSb2 by ceoln@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:51:12Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@freemo I am extremely happy that the boxes I happened to whimsically check when I was signing up, led me to QOTO. This is an excellent explanation.
(DIR) Post #APSpJHpu0HwKpeBoUi by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:52:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ceoln It makes me happy to hear you feel you made the right choice and are happy here in your new home. I look forward to getting to know you.
(DIR) Post #APSpSQPbUKny2HFJiq by ceoln@qoto.org
2022-11-10T14:53:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo 😭
(DIR) Post #APSsYMIdzS0esjVn0a by gailbear@qoto.org
2022-11-10T15:28:27Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@freemo it seems like I accidentally stumbled into the right instance! Also I'm glad there's choice out there for people who want to have massive predetermined block lists because that's how they roll, and I'm glad this choice exists for me.
(DIR) Post #APSsgRvyvQA4folmNc by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-10T15:29:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gailbear I am a big choice of freedom as the priority so long as it doesnt block other peoples freedoms.
(DIR) Post #APTJ3WC3qvgFLtx2gK by VivBeanX@qoto.org
2022-11-10T20:25:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I'm very happy as well, that I chose qoto. I prefer to block people by myself (and never did so after years on twitter).I'm here to connect, not to block.Thank you @freemo for doing such a good job.
(DIR) Post #APjJMimMOR1gPtRfzU by cscherrer@bayes.club
2022-11-18T13:40:34Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@freemoIt's helpful to learn some of the history about this, thanks!
(DIR) Post #APjVl8RNpmI0PA2df6 by Romaq@qoto.org
2022-11-18T16:03:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo The app on my phone doesn't bookmark. I'll have to remember to catch this when I get home. This is such an ongoing thing. 😔
(DIR) Post #APjXVgXnTEGfRwnn16 by Joshuamcvey@qoto.org
2022-11-18T16:22:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo As someone new to the whole thing, is there a place to learn more about this history and see how Qoto compares to the other servers?
(DIR) Post #APjXcekqWROPvWEJKi by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-18T16:23:56Z
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@Joshuamcvey depends how you want to learn about it... we have tons of posts discussing it, links to historic posts... block lists with threads discussing it, our own forum discussing a few blocks and issues... but no one single place.
(DIR) Post #APjXoahDRCBSoYDrPc by Joshuamcvey@qoto.org
2022-11-18T16:26:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo Got it. I pretty much a lurker anyway, so I don't need a single link. Just curiosity mostly
(DIR) Post #APjXxhewuv5H18VWoy by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-18T16:27:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Joshuamcvey what would you like a deeper dive on, maybe i can help either explain or point you to some resources
(DIR) Post #APjYVO669fSCBzGh1c by Joshuamcvey@qoto.org
2022-11-18T16:33:50Z
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@freemo I guess I want pretty general info. I can do the research myself later, but here's my thoughts: How big is the biggest instance and how does Qoto compare? More info on how the block lists work (instance-wide and personal). What block lists are most used? And what kind of vulnerability do instances have to bad actors doing false reporting?
(DIR) Post #APjZZQCiMdKTq3qmjA by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-18T16:45:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Joshuamcvey I can touch on some of this.The biggest instances mastadon.social, and ther eare several general instances bigger than us. QOTO is the largest STEM instance on the fedi including, as far as I know, tech instances.In terms of reach (the number of people who can see you and are seen) QOTO is in the top 20 of all instances. We are not however the least blocked. This number is based on a bomcination of blocking and being blocked so we have one of the biggest reaches. The servers that do block us have massive block lists (and are frankly very toxic). As such those instances have very small reach compared to us.When a server blocks annother they simply do not communicate, this applies on a personal level as well.the most used blocklist is here, it is also the most responsible as they do due dilligance on the instances they block and report this: https://fediblock.neocities.org/There is sadly a lot of vulnerability to false reporting and is up to the instance admin to bother to reach out to the other admin and do some due dilligance. There are many irresponsible servers looking for reasons to block and as such this is a constant problem.
(DIR) Post #APk6d1nKMBMDmPIqjA by Romaq@qoto.org
2022-11-18T22:46:09Z
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@freemo Yay bookmarked on the web site! I see where I can do "lists." I'm not sure that's the correct tool, but I'd love to organize links to the public side of this ongoing "conversation." One does not have to be a (insert various groups presumed toxic) to behave in a toxic way. I'm opposed to the toxic behavior, regardless of the ideology behind it, even if it is an ideology I subscribe to myself.Toxic is toxic.
(DIR) Post #APk6d2FKg3l7BGPDNY by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-18T22:56:08Z
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@Romaq I agree, the irony is I agree with their general principle (which is pro-LGBTQ).. .but in practice they do more harm to that community than they help it, and toxic to boost.
(DIR) Post #APk8i5VcArpyeiYh4i by Romaq@qoto.org
2022-11-18T23:19:31Z
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@freemo "Lists" would be of people I follow, which is not the intent. I'll just bookmark thread entry points for now and see what turns up later as I learn this system. Essentially, as Questions get asked relative to, "Why is Qoto blocked/ why are you on that site 'everyone' is blocking?"
(DIR) Post #APk8lupfoLhghYlYkC by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-18T23:20:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Romaq qoto has a bookmark feature, thats probably your best bet
(DIR) Post #APk8qM0UiclA8kwaI4 by mguhlin@qoto.org
2022-11-18T23:20:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @Romaq is this why Crossposter won’t work?
(DIR) Post #APk8vOBy1RK0Mgi9UO by Romaq@qoto.org
2022-11-18T23:21:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo It does, I'm using it, but I expect "at some point" I'll need to create a post with thread entry points on that particular topic, bookmark *THAT* and remove the other bookmarks from *THAT* post. Or something. :)
(DIR) Post #APk95fsX7Qrg7AWdm4 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-18T23:23:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mguhlin It does if you are using the one that isnt broken:https://moa.party@Romaq
(DIR) Post #APk9AxcaZx0EahaXSa by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-18T23:24:45Z
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@Romaq you could always just quote the post, add your notes in your post, then set it to DM. Since you are the only one tagged on you will see it... then bookmark that.
(DIR) Post #APk9N4uzH8x0hEyKu0 by gpowerf@qoto.org
2022-11-18T23:26:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @mguhlin @Romaq the moa bridge is great. Works perfectly.
(DIR) Post #APk9OkUKClPzufIVma by Romaq@qoto.org
2022-11-18T23:27:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo Thank you! Learning the ropes here.😊
(DIR) Post #APk9m5K4uM0JBudGCm by mguhlin@qoto.org
2022-11-18T23:31:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @Romaq that’s why. Thanks!
(DIR) Post #APlqj6xIs6OiZalff6 by PawelK@qoto.org
2022-11-19T19:07:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@JoshuaACasey @freemo exafokingly. Moreover, we could make it harder for trolls. On their profiles, next to their followers and followers one could try to display blockers. Another option could be, ability to leave a tag on the violator profile, albeit, there should exist an ability for a process to appeal a tag.
(DIR) Post #APoDWhyIccmksECz3I by stuartb@mastodon.social
2022-11-20T22:32:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemoYeah, about that.Several years ago, one of your users started hurling abuse at one of my contacts, on one-of my toots, purely for existing whilst trans.When I complained, the response I got was, to paraphrase, "well, they are right!"My instance admin complained, and my account and the instance got dogpiled by qoto users.Hence, block.I thought I had you blocked on here as well, or would that be because someone boosted you?
(DIR) Post #APuQB34ttgc1Evt4dc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-23T22:22:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
This. A million times this!I absolutely respect any server community's right to silence or defederate another server, as *they* see fit. This is a decision for their community, and their community alone. Which is precisely why I have absolutely no respect for the practice of blocking for a decision not to block. Let alone the practice of guilt-tripping and dogpiling people for making a different decision about whether to block this servers of that. @freemo
(DIR) Post #APuXJOkdtqSOSDL9kG by audioflyer79@mstdn.social
2022-11-23T23:42:21Z
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@freemo all I want to know is how are you able to post such a long toot without it being a thread?? 😆 also sorry dumb servers block you.
(DIR) Post #APzHcX0IoWic4hZA12 by futureisfoss@fosstodon.org
2022-11-26T06:40:05Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@freemo Defederation can be a threat for decentralization, I'm glad there are other fediverse admins who understand this.cc: @tio
(DIR) Post #APzgdjKUyDmVRigHnE by kmj@mastodon.ctseuro.com
2022-11-26T11:20:25Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futureisfossDefederation will put people on these servers into bubbles and echo chambers as they are put within data-silos of commercial services. It finally will replace algos with blocking lists. I am not sure what is worse. @freemo @tio
(DIR) Post #APzgwbVyFa9Si72y6y by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T11:23:53Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@kmj Information is power. Defederating restricts access to information as lobg as your server represents good people then defederating takes away the power from good people. The bad people can still see and comment on your posts, so you are ensuring the bad people have the power.@futureisfoss @tio
(DIR) Post #APzidvi98Vu1kqxtgG by tio@social.trom.tf
2022-11-26T11:42:49Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
Yeah I too run a Friendica instance and I never de-federeated. This is getting old for me already, and I kept screaming about this for a while now. A bunch of admins on the fediverse act like Musk I swear. Quickly block other instances in the name of thousands or millions. Non transparent too.I have no clue what's the issue here....I've been on the fediverse for 2 years now.....where are these trolls and idiots and nazi and child porn? I have seen none. Maybe because I carefully select who I want to follow and if anyone is a troll I block them immediately. Simple. Works great. Thus, users has a tremendous power at taking care of themselves and new tools/options can improve the situation, such as the ability to mute comments on your posts or only accept comments from your friends, or block lists that individuals can enable for themselves, and so on.De-federation is a very primitive and destructive behavior.
(DIR) Post #APzk3ud7sU9VsxZPhQ by swansinflight@mastodon.nz
2022-11-26T11:55:45Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@tio @freemo lol we had an admin of another instance say they'll defederate as one of our admins follows someone on shitposter club. We were confused... and then worked out it was the actually very wholesome skeletor meme bot.So we ignored it. They can defederate if they really want. Do not care. Haven't heard a thing since, so maybe they did. 😆 We don't subscribe to any blocklists, though we keep an eye on them and make our own judgements as cases arise. 🤷
(DIR) Post #APzk3vHtQulJvOdyF6 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-26T11:58:47Z
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@swansinflight we encourage our users to block, but leave it to them. We care about how they behave, what they boost, but not what they want to SEE.. I follow a few bad-actors, mostly so i can call them pieces of shit when they say things that make them pieces of shit... but that makes me a alt-right nazi i suppose, go figure.@tio
(DIR) Post #APzkhbA9fyGH5lwWiO by kmj@mastodon.ctseuro.com
2022-11-26T12:05:57Z
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@freemoagreed to your point, but this is the "algo replaced by blocklist" effect. if there is e.g. 1 bad post out of 1000 great posts, it would be 0.001% of the posts, so easy to block if required. But defederated, good people not more seeing all posts, are posting screenshots of the bad posts. Then the echo chamber efect starts. (1/2) @futureisfoss @tio
(DIR) Post #APzkobPl8ecPtqa7I8 by kmj@mastodon.ctseuro.com
2022-11-26T12:07:14Z
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@freemo(2/2) This one post is now 100%, means the value of the post is multiplied by 1000. Even worse, after 5 screenshot, it still would be 0.001% to 100% if it is then 5 out of 5000. But these 5 posts adds the ALL value to the already by 1000 multiplied value. FInally the good people thinks ALL others are bad and adds more and more servers to the block list, which again enhances the value of a single post in a non real, but dramatic way to build a wrong view on things.@futureisfoss @tio
(DIR) Post #AQ6XPBvAqX7KIRY18i by otso@freeatlantis.com
2022-11-29T18:39:56Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@kmj @futureisfoss @freemo @tio I see that when I try to find people I know by another account they are gone, they are not known by FediverseFediverse is broken into echo chambers and bubblesfree speech is a very bad word for some people
(DIR) Post #ARV9YpXd4nYG4DjjxQ by hasmis@qoto.org
2023-01-10T13:32:39Z
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@freemo It's good to have a true 'gentleman scientist' which is a free-thinking scientist with money (male or female). Very rare.
(DIR) Post #ARV9bUZnTqKFuj1IkC by freemo@qoto.org
2023-01-10T13:33:06Z
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@hasmis Thanks, I appreciate that.
(DIR) Post #ARVENs3DuAy2R56lCS by aebrockwell@qoto.org
2023-01-10T14:26:38Z
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@freemo @hasmis Apart from the pragmatic reasons, there's another good reason to avoid excessive instance-level blocking, although it is perhaps not so visible.An admin's choice to let users decide for themselves what they want to block is fundamentally a sign of respect. It says "I trust you to decide for yourself what you want to see."And respect is a mutual thing. Users tend to respect admins (e.g. @freemo) who do this.The end result is a better atmosphere on the instance.
(DIR) Post #ARVmENHKLOYGpdLf3w by Albatross@qoto.org
2023-01-10T20:45:02Z
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@freemo Thanks for explaining how it works (I haven't paid any attention to that yet), and making a good argument for the choices made. :D