Post APmlH0eAQcAEHnYdnc by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by freemo@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #APmfJMf8whTDQ9koVM by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T04:34:16Z
1 likes, 6 repeats
So I rreceived an answer from Eugene himself explaining why we were taken off, and he gave no indication he would reconsider (he has so far ignore my reply).His reason was two fold.. 1) I sent a handful of emails to servers that had defederated with us. They were very polite and simply asked if there were any problems that we could resolve with them or if they had any issues. I only contact servers that posted an email and invited contact. Apparently the issue is that the website which provided this list to me happened to be written by some user on an instance known for posting bad content, however I had no way to know who wrote the tool (or why I would even care?)The second reason is because we dont force our users to block servers, and leave that decision up to our users... basically because we have an open federation policy.Nothing in the above is listed in his server covenant which are the rules needed for a server to be on the list. Also the second point has been true since our founding and has never been an issue for half a decade, so seems like a weak excuse.My personal interpritation is that all the vile toxic shit going around, he caved and took us off to appease them. But because everything they were accusing me of is known lies he couldnt just well say that.I will tag @Gargron here in case he wishes to comment (its only fair)@khird @trinsecQT: https://qoto.org/@freemo/109371530724816347
(DIR) Post #APmgAcIzW7k1HemkPQ by louiscouture@qoto.org
2022-11-20T04:43:56Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec this is ridiculousI'm an adult I don't need to be told who not to interact with, this isn't Facebook we don't need to be mind controlled. If other servers want to ban servers that's on them and if we share something from a banned server they would not see anything from the banned server. "You use a software from kiwi farms" I call that Cow manure to be polite, how is it even relevant to moderation
(DIR) Post #APmgQ7N8IH3zyn77mi by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T04:46:43Z
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@louiscouture I know right... Apparently he thinks it makes for a bad first time user experience... Of course I go out of my way to give new users access to the CSV from fediblock so they can block servers in one click if they want to.Honestly I think he is just making excuses and caving to pressure. He just cant say that.@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APmhLr9mjvYmU6P10a by joseph_bulbulia@qoto.org
2022-11-20T04:57:11Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec I’ve just arrived, all I’ve seen are gentle STEM people. Maybe there are security issues I’m missing but such rigidity feels a little like the Monty Python, “we’re all individuals” scene. https://youtu.be/M5Flr-hQHcY
(DIR) Post #APmhys6v7xb0jifNsu by shibaprasad@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:04:14Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec I hope we continue to follow the 2nd rule, in any case. :-)
(DIR) Post #APmiYGLf0J1U2mR8Sm by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:10:34Z
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@shibaprasad The vast majority of users want #2, and as we all know it is critical for hte physical safety of our LGBTQ community... clearly Gargron couldnt give a shit that his stance would put our LGBTQ community in physical danger.... sad.See here for details why (which was also relayed to him):https://qoto.org/@freemo/109319817943835261@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APmk0bZTn75pvayl7I by bit0fun@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:26:57Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec All this seen really bizarre :/Don't know why there is so much drama with blocking servers or not. Cause it seems hypocritical to block a server because it doesn't block others...
(DIR) Post #APmkRe00s8ARHEHcA4 by jaysonmassey@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:29:52Z
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@louiscouture @freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec You could use CloudFlare instead of Kiwi Farms. That's all they do. You'd have to explain why'd you would even use Kiwi Farms instead of anything else. Are you paying for this? Sure. So you can choose who you do business with. If you're choosing to do business with people who provide "harassment campaigns" that "are known to have contributed to the suicides of three individuals", that's just shows your values. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms
(DIR) Post #APmkReaWgNNH6TMm4e by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:31:46Z
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@jaysonmassey Ehat are you on about, cloudflare is completely unrelatted to what we are talking about. We dont "use kiwifarms".. there was a list on the internet and we looked at that list. The list happened to be coded by someone at kiwi farms and it wasnt immediately obvious at the time, that is all....@louiscouture @Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APmktxuORX3Z8J9vCC by jaysonmassey@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:36:46Z
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@freemo @louiscouture @Gargron @khird @trinsec You are providing a valuable service, at the same time the new people on this site don't know any of you. So hearing ANYTHING about Kiwi Farms is unexpected and unwanted.
(DIR) Post #APml0k1KTeA45RdOJk by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:38:09Z
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@jaysonmassey It was just as unexpected and unwanted for me when I heard the list I used happened to be written by someone over at kiwi farms... but its also not a particularly important point as it is a cursory detail at best.@louiscouture @Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APmlH09KHHUgk980jA by warkittens@infosec.exchange
2022-11-20T05:39:09Z
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@jaysonmassey There's a script out there that gives a list of which instances block other instances. It was floating around Twitter as something to use to choose which instance to join. That's not Freemo's fault. @louiscouture @freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APmlH0eAQcAEHnYdnc by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:41:03Z
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By the way Jayson, Im a philly native as well, South philly in fact.@warkittens @jaysonmassey @louiscouture @Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APmlQRtIVMrbO88U6K by jaysonmassey@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:42:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @warkittens @louiscouture @Gargron @khird @trinsec See? Now we have positives!
(DIR) Post #APmmQlD2mMzBG25IhM by shibaprasad@qoto.org
2022-11-20T05:54:05Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec Great job! Made sense to me.What are some of the instances that are forcing you to do this? Can you share some list?
(DIR) Post #APmn0hHgqkXbVdOTGS by ajdinmasic@qoto.org
2022-11-20T06:00:35Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec It possibly might cause issues displaying something so open. IE could open them up to a PR nightmare.Trying to reason with it. The unresponsive part sucks though.Have you considered a donation page?
(DIR) Post #APmnUs6jAqUHlRedRA by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T06:06:00Z
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@ajdinmasic For now donations have been taken via venmo, but i need to open up other options.@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APmnhUrut2svSFkMYi by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T06:08:17Z
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@shibaprasad Well "forced" might be a strong word. But @Gargron runs joinmastodon and ultimately he is the one who stated our policy is unacceptable for listing there.That said I could list for you the instances that have been engaging in toxic nonsense but you can read my timeline and get a sense of that yourself @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APmnuwMtxFckVZeN0K by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T06:10:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jaysonmassey What part of philly you from? South philly native myself.@warkittens @louiscouture @Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APmnwf5DBy3FThCFmq by jaysonmassey@qoto.org
2022-11-20T06:11:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @warkittens @louiscouture @Gargron @khird @trinsec North Philly.
(DIR) Post #APmxbxnZPcykz1iKTQ by modrobert@qoto.org
2022-11-20T07:59:22Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec I think sticking with the open federation policy is good, making it up to the user who to block is the correct way to approach the problem. BTW: Is the Twitter migration to Mastodon about the need for free speech or censorship?
(DIR) Post #APn36wDjpQvepyXjEG by aronza@qoto.org
2022-11-20T09:01:00Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec TBH, I can see the reasoning. Preventing new users from being off-put by crap found on "unregulated" federated timeline of qoto.And more than that, avoiding giving bad-faith journalists the excuse to group togeter all Mastodon with the few inevitable dickheads that post garbage in the fed timelines.
(DIR) Post #APn3KLYMxACJAbaRG4 by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T09:03:21Z
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@aronza Thats why we make all new users aware of how to block and provide the CSV file so they can address that right when they sign up (I reboost that info daily)@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APn4fmiVFt0fS374kK by aronza@qoto.org
2022-11-20T09:18:29Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec Yea, but the fundamental problem (way deeper than QOTO or Mastodon) is that nowaday's expectations are about "walled gardens" by default.The mantra is: "users are to be coddled", and also "one can be guilty by proximity".No surprise that one has to display and update byzantine CoC documents, flags, declarations of allegiance and other virtual paraphernalia just to dispel the idea that they could even remotely be a bad actor.Like having a full set of promises prevents the actual toxic behaviour.
(DIR) Post #APn6GDx3ZfwmIVrNEu by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T09:36:15Z
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@aronza It may be the norm, but I thought we were trying to be better than the typical, not bring that toxicity here.@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APn7BfXLgXrSMHE8hM by aronza@qoto.org
2022-11-20T09:46:41Z
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@freemo And I appreciate that, I am sure I am not the only one.What I am saying is: don't feel (too) bad if this stance is periodically rejected by lots of people. Some of them have their understandable and practical reasons, others (most) follow out of convenience, and the vocal rest are just newly-minted bigots looking for an identity through being adversarial and difficult (true victims of hate are instead tragically silent).All of them, and all of us, have the right to choose.@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APn7IbFq0PLv6ULE6S by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T09:47:52Z
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@aronza I dont mind when others want to defederate from us for it, thats their choice.However the leader of the entire mastodon movement rejecting us from the central directory of mastodon instances, yea thats not cool.@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APnDwMXwhxiqnQ9f8q by otso@pleroma.karjalazet.se
2022-11-20T11:02:13.635389Z
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@freemo @shibaprasad @Gargron @khird @trinsec giving Mastodon a gatekeeper role to Fediverse is a bad thing, Mastodon ≠ Fediverse
(DIR) Post #APnL0oslzsdhW2y8gq by SGE@qoto.org
2022-11-20T12:21:34Z
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@freemo @aronza @Gargron @khird @trinsec For what it's worth sifting through a heap of servers I ended up choosing qoto precisely because the policies and environment seemed fully reasonable and what I was looking for. So far my experience has been precisely that.I hope this will get resolved for better sooner than later.
(DIR) Post #APnLJaMQDGODymmjrs by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T12:24:56Z
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@SGE Sadly it doesnt appear as though gargron is being reasonable on this one. If that changes I will let you know.@aronza @Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APnREtiTQALaHrFPQO by cooplogic@qoto.org
2022-11-20T13:31:20Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec what list were we taken off of?
(DIR) Post #APnTlD9UtVBbk1QKUi by obi@qoto.org
2022-11-20T13:59:35Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@freemo Unfortunately, this is just the start. I have been saying this IRL for a while. Like all systems, Mastodon will devolve into into a hierarchical structure of reach. The idea of choice, like instance admins choosing to block certain servers will only be a choice in writing. A consortium of servers will develop a set of rules (kind of starting now). This group will have their own set of standards that will apply to all groups they federate with. As their group becomes larger, the group will defederate more instances. This will start with smaller, new instances. These new instances will comply the new standard, outside Mastodon's rules as a whole, out of fear of irrelevancies. Eventually, once this consortium of instances hits a large percentage of the userbase (maybe 10-25%) they will apply these rules to larger instances. Those that do not follow the groups standards will be defederated. From here, 2 things could happen. 1) Most everyone adopts these new standards, leaving a fringe portion of instances, not federated with many, or 2) the federation will fracture into 2 radical sides (sound familiar) who do not federate, and are just huge echo chambers. Either of these results are boring, unimaginative, and unoriginal. The only path I can see not leading to this would be mastodon.social staying neutral. But with pressure, like all systems in jeopardy of losing power and influence, my guess is they too will cave.All ideas of Mastodon being a place of broad ideas and freedom may be true now to some degree, but will shown to be illusion in the near future.As always, this is just my opinion, and it doesn't mean shit. I hope I'm wrong. @Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APnWPFLANTMA1H6FdI by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-20T14:29:14Z
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@cooplogic joinmastodon.org@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APooW3MPH5BC9FrfiC by cooplogic@qoto.org
2022-11-21T05:26:53Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec I don’t get it. According to joinmastadon.org:“We can't control the servers, but we can control what we promote on this page. Our organization will only point you to servers that are consistently committed to moderation against racism, sexism, and transphobia.” If qoto was listed before, what changed?
(DIR) Post #APooZpKNOEatmiiM2C by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-21T05:27:32Z
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@cooplogic @Gargron @khird @trinsec When, where did he say this? Nothing at all has changed.
(DIR) Post #APoorG9mtPR3uv4f6u by cooplogic@qoto.org
2022-11-21T05:30:41Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec It’s listed on the servers pages. At the bottom it says “Safe for all” then the quote from my last post.
(DIR) Post #APootV3CUNl2gk3rdo by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-21T05:31:04Z
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@cooplogic Oh, so no reason to think it is in direct response to us?@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APop58YfwOLAP9KgIi by cooplogic@qoto.org
2022-11-21T05:33:12Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec no. I just wanted to know from @Gargron what has changed. Sorry, I’m not too good at addressing people on this app.
(DIR) Post #APopMAkv1Xag8vBMzg by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-21T05:36:16Z
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@cooplogic Thats ok.. sadly he has a bit of a history of victim blaming when its popular enough. He did this to us years ago and only when someone else from his team finally looked into it did they find his decision unfounded and reversed it.. long after the damage was done... here we are, at it again.Not a thing has changed, our rules have beent he same since day one, if anything we have gotten more strict. What changed is a hate campaign of people complaining and he caved, nothing more nothing less. Basically I sent a polite email to a small handful of servers that blocked us asking if there were any server issues I could resolve or problems.. they took offense to this and blew up and then started a hate campaign against us, no reason, no facts, and gargon caved, nothing more nothing less.If you want to complain the email for that list is here: hello@joinmastodon.org but I doubt he will even bother to respond to you, let alone have a conversation.@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APpjJd3YwOj0TqGbFg by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-21T16:03:17Z
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@obi Sad, and in the end the central figures, like @Gargron , are the only ones who can guide to path. Sadly he seems to care more about "optics" than doing what is right and supporting the protection of our LGBTQ community. @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APppGvba7WL6reH42S by Pixificial@pleroma.pixificial.xyz
2022-11-21T17:10:02.485317Z
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@freemo @Gargron @khird @trinsec Why not just let the become the neo-liberal Gab? Why go through all this trouble? QOTO is pretty big and good anyway.
(DIR) Post #APppYC9Frn3B5wG44u by freemo@qoto.org
2022-11-21T17:13:07Z
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@Pixificial Its not like it that much trouble... and if that happened that would ruin a polace I like to be anyway.@Gargron @khird @trinsec
(DIR) Post #APqL3mJ6ZlVCnOPCNc by cooplogic@qoto.org
2022-11-21T23:06:15Z
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@freemo that’s frustrating. Apparently we are also blocked by blacktwitter.ioIs there a way to add hashtags to one’s home stream?@Gargron @khird @trinsec