Post APk6LCIGaCwL85GwOu by duponin@udongein.xyz
(DIR) More posts by duponin@udongein.xyz
(DIR) Post #APcdlf1k7MOkzr5fge by astrid@fedi.astrid.tech
2022-11-14T22:04:45.917872Z
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God I love NixOS so much
(DIR) Post #APcdlfaU2CBgjbLPpw by astrid@fedi.astrid.tech
2022-11-14T22:06:06.981127Z
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Checking every change into git and being able to roll back changes or use previous generations in GRUB is honestly such a natural way to configure your system. In other distros you need to set that up yourself but it's the default for NixOS
(DIR) Post #APcdlg3YI7RKBkwd96 by astrid@fedi.astrid.tech
2022-11-14T22:10:27.717441Z
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I was always afraid to tweak some /etc file in Arch or Ubuntu in the past because I was afraid that:- a package update might nuke the file and I wouldn't know about it- I'd forget what exactly I changed- it might brick my system on restart- it wouldn't be portable between different machines Literally none of these problems exist anymore (unless I'm doing weird bootloader fuckery which is rare)
(DIR) Post #APcdlgaWJXoLq0MxX6 by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-15T08:29:42.983Z
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@astrid@fedi.astrid.tech I've been interested to try out #NixOS, but there's a couple things I haven't had time to figure out yet that I need it to do.- No additional boot loader, has to boot straight from EFI;- Kernel needs #ZFS support so I can use ZFS as rootfs;- #systemd needs to be replaced by an alternative, preferably #openrc.Are all these things (easily) done?
(DIR) Post #APcdlheoL4pz9bNtrM by astrid@fedi.astrid.tech
2022-11-14T22:10:58.334382Z
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I tweak my systems so much nowadays, it's ridiculous
(DIR) Post #APcflnlvnuAo1jtE9Y by eliasp@mastodon.social
2022-11-15T08:41:35Z
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@tyil @astrid #systemd is deeply tied into the way #NixOS (not Nix itself) works. Chances of getting rid of it are close to zero and I also don't see a legitimate reason for doing so.
(DIR) Post #APcfloSTFkCW9fnCSW by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-15T08:52:12.336Z
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@eliasp@mastodon.social @astrid@fedi.astrid.tech I also don't see a legitimate reason for doing soMaybe you don't, but I most definitely do.
(DIR) Post #APckEjfuW1TFXD7rYu by musicmatze@social.linux.pizza
2022-11-15T09:41:24Z
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@tyil replacing systemd in nixos could theoretically be done, but I guess it would be work for 10 devs for 2 years fulltime.
(DIR) Post #APckEk7upts8w4EEDI by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-15T09:42:24.921Z
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@musicmatze@social.linux.pizza Guess I'll be sticking to #Gentoo for at least 2 more years, then.
(DIR) Post #APckSiFIcsLB9kLLxA by eliasp@mastodon.social
2022-11-15T09:42:28Z
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@tyil @astrid OK, sorry - this probably sounded condescending:What are your reasons for trying to replace systemd?BTW: #ZFS works great on #NixOS
(DIR) Post #APckSijmnWj8gIbhTM by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-15T09:44:49.361Z
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@eliasp@mastodon.social @astrid@fedi.astrid.tech I've yet to encounter a system that had #systemd installed with no issues caused by it. My latest VM that ran #Debian failed to reboot because of systemd issues. Before that, I've had DNS break due to systemd updates on another machine.Every single time a system comes with systemd, I have issues because of it. Maybe not immediately, but it will happen. I want a system I can rely on, and I cannot rely on systemd.And yes, #ZFS works great on any distro, it's the ease of getting it working for your rootfs that I care about.
(DIR) Post #APckZr6m4dkCfalIfY by musicmatze@social.linux.pizza
2022-11-15T09:42:58Z
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@tyil well... also nobody is doing it because there's no reason to do it...
(DIR) Post #APckZrYmOW964RrfJw by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-15T09:46:07.697Z
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@musicmatze@social.linux.pizza There's very good reasons to not want #systemd. Wanting a stable system is my personal reason, but not wanting a massive scope-creep services manager is another. Just because it's popular doesn't make it good, nor suitable for everyone all the time.
(DIR) Post #APclNK7B17QKozXQbQ by cnx@nixnet.social
2022-11-15T09:53:49.991711Z
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@tyil, as @musicmatze implied, the idea of declarative systems like NixOS or GuixSD is tight integration with init systems so that one can declare a service by a few lines in the config. Since it’s done manually for each service the effort is huge while not portable, thus usually one init system is supported. You can give Guix System a try which is currently using Shepherd.
(DIR) Post #APclNlAeQJFIjaN5Ga by fgaz@cdrom.tokyo
2022-11-15T09:53:41.101275Z
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@tyil @musicmatze there's also GuixSD
(DIR) Post #APcpWUVEAEJ9ShPlfk by astrid@fedi.astrid.tech
2022-11-15T10:39:23.128939Z
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@tyil @eliasp zfs on NixOS is as smooth as any other filesystem. Configuring zfs on root is also extremely smooth, so smooth that you begin to wonder if you're missing anything. I have it set up like that on most of my machines.
(DIR) Post #APcpWV3y5465CRfVp2 by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-15T10:41:29.103Z
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@astrid@fedi.astrid.tech @eliasp@mastodon.social That's very nice!
(DIR) Post #APdhwblhAUUN391IO0 by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-15T20:51:25.364Z
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@cnx@nixnet.social @musicmatze@social.linux.pizza It doesn't look like #Guix supports #ZFS as rootfs.
(DIR) Post #APk6LCIGaCwL85GwOu by duponin@udongein.xyz
2022-11-18T22:52:39.738769Z
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@astrid yeah, I once manage to delete my user (because no longer declared, file missing in my flake), and managed to revive it quickly
(DIR) Post #AQ70EKME2NMhwkNATg by samboy@mstdn.social
2022-11-29T23:57:43Z
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@tyil @eliasp @astrid Hey, it looks like you are trying to get more people to use OpenRC instead of systemd.If you want to encourage OpenRC use, feel free to make a proper OpenRC system startup file for MaraDNS, and I will happily accept a merge request on GitHub.I was able to use some hacks to convert a SysVInit script in to a working OpenRC init script, but the OpenRC developers looked at me funny for doing that.Go here to make a pull request:https://github.com/samboy/MaraDNSThank you!
(DIR) Post #AQ70EL85ARe8LAlO4W by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-30T00:02:43.227Z
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@samboy@mstdn.social @eliasp@mastodon.social @astrid@fedi.astrid.tech I don't use #MaraDNS, nor #Github, but I'll add this on my list of things I can do to kill an afternoon if you wouldn't mind getting the patch through email. Can't give you an estimate on when I'll be picking it up, though 😅
(DIR) Post #AQ70Rp3jCUtqvl9iLo by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-30T00:05:14.772Z
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@samboy@mstdn.social Also I spot a Contributor Covenant CoC, that's a big red flag to me 😕
(DIR) Post #AQ70zb21rPl7GsSvQG by samboy@mstdn.social
2022-11-30T00:07:54Z
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@tyil @eliasp @astrid Thanks!My experience was this: It was a lot easier for me to make a systemd unit file than to make an old sysvinit script work with OpenRCOpenRC unit files are essentially sysvinit shell scripts, but with weird changes to them specific to OpenRC meaning that, for a third party app to work with OpenRC, one has to spend time and energy making a unit file for it.I also like how systemd will fully daemonize and log a non-forking network service which outputs on stdout.
(DIR) Post #AQ70zbRuJCSWZ8Zal6 by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-30T00:11:18.308Z
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@samboy@mstdn.social @eliasp@mastodon.social @astrid@fedi.astrid.tech Well, in a healthy environment, the developers wouldn't dictate to distro maintainers how their application ought to be run. The distro maintainers add init scripts for software that they package for their distro.I don't mind #systemd's service management, but I do strongly dislike all the other cruft that comes with it, and how it keeps getting larger while swallowing up other functionalities. Logs should be plaintext and easy to use, journald does the opposite. DNS shouldn't be managed through your init system. Systemd keeps increasing its scope, and whenever it does, it breaks stuff left and right.
(DIR) Post #AQ71B8DQp8ijNIIcxk by samboy@mstdn.social
2022-11-30T00:10:03Z
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@tyil As long as one keeps the discussion civil and technical, and doesn’t bring politics (or cancel culture) in to it, there won’t be a problem.My CoC forbids both the excesses of the far right (racism, etc.) and the far left (cancel culture).
(DIR) Post #AQ71B8cFKsZOcFuRdo by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-30T00:13:25.413Z
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@samboy@mstdn.social Then write a simple CoC that says just that, don't grab an existing CoC that is known to be horrible and mostly used to harm free software developers for daring to have opinions. I'm not going to get a lawyer's degree to verify your version of the contributor covenant CoC isn't as egregious as the original, which should be shunned by anyone sane.
(DIR) Post #AQ71X7dndogPxm7QnI by coin@asimon.org
2022-11-30T00:17:33.347874Z
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@samboy @tyil @samboy @tyil You're the owner of the repo, you make the rules. If you see things that go out of your way, you don't need a CoC to tell people that. Tell them yourself. It should be a rare occurance and not clutter your project with useless items.
(DIR) Post #AQ71aj7ckC2h4qmtk0 by samboy@mstdn.social
2022-11-30T00:14:08Z
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@tyil @eliasp @astrid A long term mature project like MaraDNS has issues where distro maintainers lose interest and the version of MaraDNS included in distros is outdated.The only distro package for MaraDNS that is up to date right now is the fedora core one.This is why I’m dealing with init systems, because, since the distro packages are old, "make install" needs to do the right thing so people can have an up to date MaraDNS on their system.
(DIR) Post #AQ71ajg0gLY2nUsML2 by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-30T00:18:01.856Z
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@samboy@mstdn.social Wouldn't a similar situation occurr when I write an #OpenRC script for #MaraDNS, though? As I don't use the project, I have no interest apart from having fun writing the script once. Once it is written, I would no longer have any reason to keep it up to date with future versions of OpenRC, and since you don't use systems without #SystemD, you probably have little interest in setting up a specific environment just to maintain something you don't even support.Also, I don't think it's necessarily bad if a package is "old" in a distro. Back when I got into #GNU+Linux, such a situation was called "stable".
(DIR) Post #AQ7PI30gyRKq9oAgVc by samboy@mstdn.social
2022-11-30T01:49:34Z
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@coin @tyil Honest question: What opinions do you guys feel a need to post which would violate a CoC?Edit: I should give this more nuance. In the old days we did not need CoC because the internet was small enough that it didn’t have the kinds of far right extremists it has today. The reason to have a CoC is because the Internet has become a bigger city, and a lot of bad people it didn’t used to have are now on it.Free speech ideals no longer work on today’s Internet.
(DIR) Post #AQ7PI3XJ1BQHmxQjLM by coin@asimon.org
2022-11-30T04:43:44.317843Z
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@samboy @tyil @samboy @tyil Well I'll tell you what I personally think. I don't know if you'll like it or not but here goes:As a project manager what you'll probably want from people is to give you pull requests that better the project right. If a good pull request is being added, does it matter from which side of the political spectrum a person is? No.Now if you're going to create a group of people to work on your project, your responsibility is to tell them to keep the project neutral, and anything else is grounds to either rejection of PR or removal of the person if it's egregious enough. This is your ability, use it.Set this expectation with the people who work with you, what the rules are.To me CoC come off as pretentious, and rejects people right from the get-go just because they have the wrong opinions, at least the more popular CoC that I've seen left leaning projects add.Now to the point about people being more far right and the Internet being bigger. While it is true it is as big as it gets, people have had a variety of opinions from all over the Trichotomic spectrum, extremism was always there. It's just the political zeitgeist we have today have cause moderate people to have to pick sides and cause the tear between the (mostly American) culture to widen.I think for this reason, free speech is important more than ever.Censorship will not remove these thoughts, and it only festers in the background. I've seen personally people change their mind when presented both sides. It works, people aren't stupid.At the end of the day, it's your project, so you're ultimately the one who can choose to do with it whatever you want.
(DIR) Post #AQ7QiDFDe4kzNj0T1U by samboy@mstdn.social
2022-11-30T04:50:53Z
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@coin @tyil I completely understand the “The answer to speech we don’t like is more speech” argument. I used to advocate it myself.There is certain extremist content where that just doesn’t work. To name just one example, trying to debate whether Sandy Hook really happened with a kook who just does not have the mental capacity to tell fantasy from reality does not work.The only way to stop that kind of nonsense is to have serious financial consequences for spreading those kinds of lies.
(DIR) Post #AQ7QiDeO8UtEdmmZFo by coin@asimon.org
2022-11-30T04:59:40.835864Z
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@samboy @samboy I think the amount is overly excessive. Companies don't pay that much for much worse offenses. To me, this is completely ludicrous.
(DIR) Post #AQ7RUoTEXjEsjhjhg0 by samboy@mstdn.social
2022-11-30T05:04:59Z
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@coin Look, not having empathy for the grieving parents of the sandy Hook tragedy is a really big red flag in my book.I am considering blocking you. Alex Jones abused grieving parents because he could get money enabling and spreading those Sandy Hook lies. The reason for the huge penalty is because being so callous towards those parents who lost their children to make a buck was inhumane.Again, I’m considering blocking your node. It’s really offensive enabling that behavior.
(DIR) Post #AQ7RUp0YXptUP3KJcG by coin@asimon.org
2022-11-30T05:08:27.800094Z
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@samboy @samboy I don't want to talk about this subject anymore. You brought it up.I think we're done here.
(DIR) Post #AQ7oHFPXscRdBMVmKW by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-11-30T09:23:41.629Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@samboy@mstdn.social @coin@asimon.org I have plenty of opinions which are not popular with various groups. I don't think any of those should matter when I'm trying to help out a project by providing code. A CoC is inherently not a technical document, it introduces politics where there were none, and I've never seen it actually be used to defuse any situation. It seems to always be used by people who don't contribute anything of value to a project to bully away people they don't like the personal opinions of.The use of a CoC, especially a ridiculously abusable one which was created for the sole purpose to keep out one side of the political spectrum, signifies that the project values virtue signalling over quality contributions. As I said, it's a major red flag.The people who are in favor of CoCs, and particularly the Contributor Covenant CoC, are generally not good people. They will go through your personal information, look through other repositories or work you've done, basically perform a background check, just to find anything they can use to hurt you. It makes for a very toxic environment, and one that inherently sets people up to fail. As society changes, values change as well. What was a joke in your teens can now be seen as literally supporting nazis (a word that has been devalued so much it has devolved to "person I disagree with).