Post APgnWfJaXdlbiflX4i by mwfc@chaos.social
(DIR) More posts by mwfc@chaos.social
(DIR) Post #APglxX94p9BwICX6cy by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-17T08:20:30Z
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I love Mastodon and I research search engines, so when we set up a mastodon instance at the University of Twente, we planned to research federated search, who-to-follow recommendations, and trending topics. Students worked on this in one of our courses:https://canvas.utwente.nl/courses/1426/
(DIR) Post #APgm09vZbUF39WT7i4 by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-17T08:20:59Z
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When engaging with the community, I quickly learnt that many tooters actively oppose search, recommendation and most other "algorithmic" tools. As a researcher in Information Retrieval I was kind of shocked: How could someone NOT like search??https://idf.social/web/statuses/100146022562227004
(DIR) Post #APgm2s9u7lWmucSwN6 by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-17T08:21:29Z
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Turns out, search can be easily misused to find persons to harass, searching for instance for "trans rights are human rights" and threaten all those persons is way to easy. Who-to-follow recommendations will then give the trolls more people to harass, as do trending topics. The lack of full-text search is a feature, not a bug or an omission.https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/594
(DIR) Post #APgm5QA2fxWEwnkHWS by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-17T08:21:57Z
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If you think this is a relatively small problem, then read up on kiwifarms. (and If you think: "Well, but this doesn't affect me", then for goodness sake, please go back to Musk's sorry birdsite!)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms#Harassment
(DIR) Post #APgm7R06WaqI8B3bt2 by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-17T08:22:17Z
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So, I stopped researching (federated) search algorithms for Mastodon and social media in general. OpenWebSearch.eu for the win!https://openwebsearch.eu/
(DIR) Post #APgmJgDTmLWenS9Vbs by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-17T08:24:31Z
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Of course they are, or do you think only you cisgender ass has human rights?
(DIR) Post #APgmQzbE6ygawHkN16 by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-17T08:25:50Z
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Of course they are, or do you think only your cisgender ass has human rights?
(DIR) Post #APgnWfJaXdlbiflX4i by mwfc@chaos.social
2022-11-17T08:38:03Z
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Nice thread from @djoerd about his work regarding fediverse search and why he stopped researching it. Really worth reading. Thanks!
(DIR) Post #APhA9M5k93xgNv8y2a by ton@m.tzyl.nl
2022-11-17T12:51:31Z
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@djoerd I like search a lot but the location of where that search is possible matters. Full text search in social media disallows pseudo limited public conversations and creates damaging asymmetries. Unlike on a real public square where many conversations take place in a semipermeable setting and crashing one would immediately carry social consequences for the crasher, in social media that friction needs to be created. Search reduces friction in a way that favours the crashers.
(DIR) Post #APhEH571YckXrEgMlM by fili@seo.chat
2022-11-17T13:37:45Z
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@djoerd there may be a misconception here as well. #search is important.#Google and other search engines are already indexing the content, so content on #Mastodon is already being found using search. Assuming the content is not noindexed, which can be set in the account settings, among others. I would like to see further development/research of open source search algorithms for the #fediverse.
(DIR) Post #APhGsjZEJGCzwuxP84 by Kye@tech.lgbt
2022-11-17T14:06:58Z
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@djoerd I always appreciate when people bump up against the norms of a new community and take it as an opportunity to learn and become a part of defining those norms rather than as an opportunity to pitch a fit and whine that people aren't letting them do what they want.
(DIR) Post #APhHDDbGMGRkszfxcO by sachac@emacs.ch
2022-11-17T14:10:41Z
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@djoerd I looked for word search when I first joined because it's part of how I look for Emacs news, but I like the focus on hashtags and people instead, so that part of my workflow is all good now. I'm just going to trust that people who want their stuff to be findable will tag it to be findable. Yay thoughtful design!
(DIR) Post #APhHw6w3z1h9FPoMuu by sergio_101@mastodon.social
2022-11-17T14:18:48Z
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@djoerd i think it would be really cool to have a "personal" algorithm.. that you could run in the cloud.. that would scour your own profile and the rest of the fediverse and give inferences and recommendations..
(DIR) Post #APhI22tHw08ORNLLgO by sergio_101@mastodon.social
2022-11-17T14:19:53Z
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@djoerd although i get that there is nothing we can do about it the big picture, search and recommendations tend to be troll bait and waste lots of time.
(DIR) Post #APhIAJR0JDKE4D3VJo by pirmas697@eldritch.cafe
2022-11-17T14:21:20Z
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@djoerd When I saw your first post elsewhere on the web (discord), this was exactly the first thought I had.A few years ago I tweeted about the first time I passed in public and the euphoria I got from just being called "ma'am" in the liquor store. I had multiple people that I did not know and did not know me or my friends jump into the thread to call me a rapist and a pedophile. When I reported them for harassment, I was told they hadn't broken any rules.
(DIR) Post #APhMk3IQBjJoFwL3K4 by ariadne@eldritch.cafe
2022-11-17T15:12:37Z
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@djoerd absolutely, thank you for saying this
(DIR) Post #APi8RGS5qVdNM9yAqG by toplesstopics@eldritch.cafe
2022-11-18T00:07:05Z
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@djoerd that's what I'd assume, but it also makes it ridiculously hard to find people who DO talk about stuff you're interested in. If you could look within an instance without having to join it, that would be lovely... Not like requiring someone to sign up to see it alone stops abuse, they could always lurk then use their other account to abuse
(DIR) Post #APkk6bWaUNA5CkZDoe by ton@m.tzyl.nl
2022-11-17T12:53:56Z
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@djoerd If a conversation wants to be findable using # is a way. Boosting is a more natural discovery tool mimicking how it would be on a proper public square. That said I do like search on anything I said , which I can.
(DIR) Post #APkk6c5gNtEaxazFWC by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-19T06:18:33Z
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@ton search on own posts and hash tags is fine.I like your town square analogy's social consequences analogy.
(DIR) Post #APkkHupz1aCMHu26s4 by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-19T06:20:38Z
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@pirmas697 I am sorry that that happened to you.
(DIR) Post #APkknyUmxWTmtrPFq4 by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-19T06:26:24Z
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@frostwolf What do you mean with "copy link"? The instance at mastodon.utwente.nl was shut down in July, so the original post is gone now; it's quite amazing that idf.social still has those posts. Apparently, Mastodon servers hold on to everything they've seen for ever(?)
(DIR) Post #APkmpR0cdFUjWy7VJY by berkes@bitcoinhackers.org
2022-11-19T06:49:04Z
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@djoerd @ton leaves me wondering: if it is an artificial limitation,it would be easy to circumvent. It's not a limitation of the protocol, but of the client.An instance could add search or a search tool. Then have their users (Ab)use that to bully, or simply inject themselves in conversations. All that can be done, is defederate such instances when found out. And block users the misuse such tools.Hence we should not rely on it for "security", which we currently do.
(DIR) Post #APknJv4tOvupTWebMu by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-19T06:54:37Z
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The link above that does not work shows the following:
(DIR) Post #APknqH6h27Hn40vMg4 by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-19T07:00:27Z
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@frostwolf Now I understand, see:https://idf.social/@djoerd/109369155718751705
(DIR) Post #APktWgOXu2rNQUJdPE by Ruth_Mottram@fediscience.org
2022-11-19T08:04:05Z
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@djoerd that sounds really interesting, but I'm not quite sure I understand - is the aim to build a new web search engine?
(DIR) Post #APkuUsRmDqvwBEWuZc by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-19T08:15:01Z
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@berkes @ton Others may build different fediverse software, and we will block them, sure. But.. This is not about your usual "they got my password" security. It's about requirements engineering and social design: This software provides hash tag and account name search, but not full text search. Not all that can be done, should be done.
(DIR) Post #APkwLNjHGE2ADGJcwK by berkes@bitcoinhackers.org
2022-11-19T07:06:05Z
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@djoerd @ton I'm pretty sure we'll see services soon that offer the following:* See what people say about your brand (keyword)* See what posts like to URL* Find profiles with [advanced search conditions including emoji and flags]* Reply to posts that mention your brand (keyword)And we can't do much about it, other than try to hide from it, which is technically impossible.We're relying on everyone being nice. Which is a very good attitude. Untill it isn't anymore.
(DIR) Post #APkwLOHfCNXVvuP5XM by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-19T08:35:42Z
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@berkes @ton You are right, this will happen and there are no technical solutions. (I am guilty of doing such analysis with tweers, I admit) Some instances thought about this, though, see: https://mastodon.social/@socrates@scholar.social/109364972724279253
(DIR) Post #APkz2QtfYjIKOhpfY8 by djoerd@idf.social
2022-11-19T09:05:54Z
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@Ruth_Mottram We research possibilities for organisations (universities and other public research institutes like Radboud U. and CERN) to collaboratively crawl the web. We will provide an open web index that anyone may use to build a web search engine. Let a thousand googles bloom!
(DIR) Post #APkzJ2iygWkaLokfsu by Ruth_Mottram@fediscience.org
2022-11-19T09:08:54Z
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@djoerd that sounds really cool!
(DIR) Post #APl2jGbpz3IAo0blXk by berkes@bitcoinhackers.org
2022-11-19T09:47:15Z
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@djoerd @ton interesting discussion. What strikes me, is the same thing that worries me. We have to ask people to be nice. Rely on ethical researches.That will get us far. But we really ought to think about better protection against the inevitable actors that don't listen to our requests. That don't have to adhere to ethical principles. Just saying "we asked not to do this" isn't enough on the internet. B/C all it takes is a single bad actor.
(DIR) Post #APmu0x82dkaoKRwwDI by miklo@fosstodon.org
2022-11-20T07:19:02Z
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@djoerdi thing search by hashtags is enough because poeple have control over what part of post they want to be searchable.
(DIR) Post #APpTXIrxC8hmesKqzg by DrBrake@mastodon.social
2022-11-21T13:06:19Z
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@djoerd unfortunately, that link does not appear to work.