Post APeqJnOn5NEGZaplzs by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
(DIR) More posts by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
(DIR) Post #APZVCPNSvdbtDX3Cwi by TapiocaPearl@mastodon.art
2022-11-13T19:56:01Z
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If you're white and you tell a person of color that they need to CW their discussion of racism that happens on this platform or in their daily life, I will suspend your account. This is your warning.
(DIR) Post #APZVCQ2EU4DhFy7lUO by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-13T20:09:46Z
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@TapiocaPearl Does that go both ways? If a person of color tells a white person they need to CW their discussion of what they perceive as an experience of racism in their daily life, will you suspend that account?Just asking for consistency's sake.
(DIR) Post #APZVa8l4N1X8ciPKSm by TapiocaPearl@mastodon.art
2022-11-13T20:13:48Z
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@LexTenebris No because there is no racism towards white people.
(DIR) Post #APZVmP0bmDXeUzWTCK by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-13T20:16:17Z
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@TapiocaPearl It must be very interesting to live in that parallel reality. One in which definitional behaviors can only flow one way. Good to know. That is one server I have absolutely no interest of setting foot on nor will I advise any of my artist friends to do so, either.Thank you. You saved me a lot of concern over your ability to reason and treat people fairly.Good luck with that.
(DIR) Post #APZnFKKFxwGXaq5hpY by jeena@toot.jeena.net
2022-11-13T23:31:58Z
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@TapiocaPearl what if that person is any other color than white? Like let's say they're Asian?
(DIR) Post #APZpXkatEuCcBRmffU by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-13T23:57:42Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl https://mastodon.art/@TapiocaPearl/109321239839175523Are you aware of systemic oppression of white people?
(DIR) Post #APa8PtNuZQAQGAgDGS by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-14T03:29:12Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl Have you applied to a college, university or law school? Are you aware of the racial preference policies which are boldly and aggressively stated which explicitly discriminate against successfully tested white applicants in favor of lower-accomplishment people of color, as long as they orientation?So: yes.
(DIR) Post #APa8ZtFVvdqKjfWGFk by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-14T03:31:01Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl Alternately, have you ever been a white person in a deep urban community?So: also yes.
(DIR) Post #APa8fe4XGmBVP082Cm by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-14T03:32:03Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl The first is objectively governmentally supported systematic discrimination, the latter is extremely socially constructed systematic discrimination, but in both cases individuals are judging you specifically because of the color of your skin and genetic makeup, not your individuality or personal accomplishments.You know – racism.
(DIR) Post #APaTb7EBXYj5PsK728 by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-14T07:26:31Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl so you consider any discrimination to be oppression by definition? I'd say that's a stretch.
(DIR) Post #APc7w6ouRRxhYe1frE by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-15T02:33:15Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl I didn't say that.But let's tear us apart a little bit. In order to discriminate, one needs to have the power to make a decision, right? Especially if you are taking the negative interpretation of the word "discrimination." In which case – it's inherently oppressive, right? Someone with the power to make a decision based purely on the genetic descent of someone else does so, without any other input from them?
(DIR) Post #APc82OWHY2nEBoJIy8 by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-15T02:34:23Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl Unless you're going to use the much broader, let's freighted definition of "to discriminate," which is purely making a distinction between two things.But you wouldn't be wanting to play that kind of disingenuous semantic game, would you? Because that would be argument not in good faith. I certainly wouldn't expect that much less of you.
(DIR) Post #APdAhIgsWGWB3ArN9U by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-15T14:38:52Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl Happy to go with the negative version of "discrimination". Oppression is to do with the application of power. I can discriminate against Tories as much as I like, but I'm in no position to oppress them.
(DIR) Post #APdKEihPjwQkrH7YmW by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-15T16:25:47Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl So instead you're playing silly boaters with the semantic definition of "oppress." And as long as you can decide your discrimination is not "oppressive," your discrimination is good, right?If you decide that a Tory is a bad person simply because they're a Tory and you treat them differently in a negative way, is that not oppression? You have the power to treat them so and you do so.Seems pretty low.
(DIR) Post #APdMBN0A9duebVQ9UO by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-15T16:47:33Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl No. Not at all.Not good, but not oppressive. There is a difference between real oppression and low grade nastiness. Frankly, many Tories would be quite comfortable being disliked by an old trot like me. Even if I did discriminate against them in my postings. The Other Place is full of people gleefully laying into one another on this basis.Nobody likes being oppressed.(FTAOD, I don't actually discriminate against Tories.)
(DIR) Post #APdRN2vp6EojbUmIe8 by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-15T17:45:43Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl But now you've sidestepped the question. You've evaded actually saying what "oppressive" is, actually drawing focus to the fact that whoever gets to define what "oppressive" is gets to be the arbiter of what is discrimination, which is how we got here in the first place.Rather than simply saying that making judgments about people for traits that they possess orthogonal to the value metric being considered is discriminatory.
(DIR) Post #APdRUNprmHPCSmUT20 by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-15T17:47:03Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl That is to say, you can dislike anybody you want on any grounds that you like. Hades knows I'm in great favor of hating quite a lot of people.But you need to do it for reasons which are individual and tied to what you actually don't like.As opposed to what we originally got into this thread with – which was specifically racism and whether white people could be discriminated against.
(DIR) Post #APdRbFdAgIN92lpLO4 by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-15T17:48:17Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl Given that you could discriminate against Tories and I think it's safe to say that the majority of Tories are in fact white people, then we have the answer to that question.And if a Tory objected to your discrimination against them in some other field of human experience other than their political inclinations simply because of their political inclinations – they would be right to feel oppressed.
(DIR) Post #APeqJnOn5NEGZaplzs by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-16T09:59:57Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl Tories come in all colours. Look at Patel, Braverman, Kwarteng, Javid and, of course, Sunak. If I happen to have a fear of hazel coloured eyes, I may discriminate against them but on my own I simply don't have the power to oppress them. They may rightly feel I'm being unfair, but they can ignore me and get on with their lives.Shouting, "I'm oppressed!" whenever somebody acts unfairly is the behaviour of a snowflake.1/
(DIR) Post #APfcLPBUsfobquRuqW by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-16T18:58:06Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl If you have an inherent dislike for someone but can't do anything about it, is it really discrimination?Don't you have to be able to discriminate before it's discrimination?That's a big chunk of the danger with this line of thinking. If it only becomes meaningful if you have power, then I should do everything in my power to keep you from having power because you've already admitted to being discriminatory.
(DIR) Post #APfciid6kXUkozTs00 by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-16T10:01:04Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl If I propagate my fears to the point where they get bullied at school, spat at in the street and can't get work, at some point it clearly becomes oppression.I think we disagree as to where that point is. Which is the essence of your challenge to @TapiocaPearl . They take the view that discrimination against black people is of a higher order of magnitude than against whites. 2/
(DIR) Post #APfcijBUgh06XdZKb2 by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-16T10:01:49Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl In the US, that is hard to deny. In the UK, while it is a long way from perfect, the days of "no dogs, blacks or Irish"are long gone.3/3
(DIR) Post #APfcijhOm4WO8aUoKG by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-16T19:02:18Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl Whereas I live in the US and I take significant umbrage at the suggestion that the discrimination against black people is of a high order of magnitude than against whites. It's just not true – unless you begin to include the discrimination against blacks by blacks.But in terms of "oppression?" I'm sorry, but no.
(DIR) Post #APh8Pgm6oT5VG3cXDM by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-17T12:32:07Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl I'm sorry to have caused offence. Nevertheless, the consensus opinion, and that held by our admin, is that "positive discrimination" is a necessary evil that doesn't count as oppression.
(DIR) Post #APh941SPKuNYzCdcES by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-17T12:39:24Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl 1. My examples were hypothetical. I absolutely do not admit to discrimination in real life. Where I have found bias within myself I try very hard not to let it affect how I deal with people.2. Yes, we absolutely should strive to prevent people who act from racial bias from attaining power.
(DIR) Post #APhefMvPZzH8rRUaS8 by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-17T18:33:32Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl Which is just saying "we're perfectly happy to discriminate against people, as long as they're the right people, and we will pat ourselves on the back for doing so."You might see where those who oppose actual discrimination would take that amiss and those who have suffered actual discrimination, no matter the source, would take great offense. Especially since this is specifically racist discrimination, as originally described.
(DIR) Post #APhenTgaKJI097QLg0 by LexTenebris@lbry.world
2022-11-17T18:35:01Z
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@TwistedByKnaves @TapiocaPearl "This is consensus opinion" is just the coward's way of saying "I found at least one other person who agrees with me, so we're going to beat you." Without, at the very least, taking responsibility for the beating.When you decide to do evil to other people, at least take responsibility for the evil in a certain amount of pride in it. Don't try to weasel word your way out.
(DIR) Post #APl2Aj34FuKosAsGbQ by TwistedByKnaves@mastodon.online
2022-11-19T09:41:01Z
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@LexTenebris @TapiocaPearl just count the responses to the OP.