Post APRIQYHFfAbcgTPS7M by lawgeeknz@cloudisland.nz
(DIR) More posts by lawgeeknz@cloudisland.nz
(DIR) Post #APNJFMBJcKDxJ31EJc by zyk@mastodon.nz
2022-11-07T22:14:06Z
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Right, listen up.I've seen a few new #nzjournos and #journalists popping in. Generally speaking this has been great (shoutout to you @aotearoa_ben !), you guys are more then welcome here as *regular personal accounts*.I just had to ban a stuff.co.nz "official" org account. Read the rules guys, come on. (This is the part where you all yell "Shame!" #NZTwits)With that out of the way, just so we're all clear, Here's is a sneak peek of our feelings/policy on using stuff you find here:
(DIR) Post #APNJFMcxxWLGgnxJPk by zyk@mastodon.nz
2022-11-07T22:14:50Z
2 likes, 3 repeats
Content hosted on mastodon.nz, or produced by it's users may not be reused outside of the fediverse without the express permission of the author(s). Mostly this rule applies to media people with personal accounts here. This is your only warning - you will be banned if you mine us for content. Our users will not live in fear that things/opinions they post here will be used as fuel for a low-quality piece about social media drama. If you intend to do this, go back to reddit (sorry not sorry).
(DIR) Post #APNJQwM7SjUOgTazq4 by keith@mastodon.nz
2022-11-07T22:50:25Z
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@zyk that's a server rule right? So nothing stopping journalists doing that if they don't have an account on this server?
(DIR) Post #APNJQwlHx9cdwXN64O by nott@pleroma.nobodyhasthe.biz
2022-11-07T23:01:23.972844Z
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@keith @zyk
(DIR) Post #APNJVai3N09uzu4a0m by lina@eientei.org
2022-11-07T23:02:15.208670Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@zyk words words words words i just stole this loser's posts without his consent
(DIR) Post #APNgA8bywLu2iYyLYm by zyk@mastodon.nz
2022-11-07T23:41:09Z
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@keith Interesting question. You're right, we can't ban an account that doesn't exist on our server.BUT, if orgs move to their own instances, we can absolutely de-federate from scummy ones. Their entire instances can be blocked in such a way that our server just won't accept messages/interaction from them.
(DIR) Post #APNgA9CqjHOSYuDn1c by hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info
2022-11-08T03:16:04.878755Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@zyk @keith blocking/defederating remote users/servers just prevent you from seeing their messages, it doesn't stop them from scraping your posts though
(DIR) Post #APNgAAHUjUhftbP0u8 by zyk@mastodon.nz
2022-11-07T23:48:00Z
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@keithThe way I see it, this is the first time in a while that the #users have some skin in the game.We have all the "valuable" accounts over here. All the real people.We *are* their target audience.For the first time, you (well, I in the example) get a bit of a say in who exactly gets to target you and how.If they wanna wade into my sandpit and start kicking over sandcastles, they get to sit in the car cry by themselves while the rest of us have fun.
(DIR) Post #APNhHqusiL4s6l3T3w by ShinobuRespecter@freecumextremist.com
2022-11-08T03:28:41.205511Z
8 likes, 5 repeats
@zyk Hey not to dig too deep by why are you on the Sex Offender List for Canterbury New Zealand?
(DIR) Post #APNimPGve48HIlV63s by Saber@shortstackran.ch
2022-11-08T03:45:23.358568Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@zyk hey you should try this thank you
(DIR) Post #APOemh8szyZU4Ca3WK by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-11-07T23:06:31.492Z
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@zyk@mastodon.nz hey nice, it's actually great to see admins taking a stand on this. idk if you've seen but there's a journalist instance, https://journa.host/, you might want to pre-emptively limit or defederate it
(DIR) Post #APOemhWzYLqzGxrJ5s by flyinggeek@mastodon.nz
2022-11-08T00:03:18Z
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@evelyn @zyk why? I think journalists perform an essential role in an open society. Some will go overboard but then the majority will not.Playing nicely together in the sandpit is not going to work if we get up in arms about every offence.
(DIR) Post #APOemhqqMXjWGX9A2K by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-11-08T00:26:13.761Z
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@flyinggeek@mastodon.nz @zyk@mastodon.nz This is not - and nor do I want - a debate about the value of journalism for "open society".Modern journalistic practices around social media can be abusive and put people at serious risk of harm, as your instance administrator has acknowledged. That is an instance entirely dedicated to working journalists, many of whom will be actively gathering material on fediverse, and so my recommendation here is to intervene before something happens.The administrator of that instance has had these same concerns about consent put to him, he has decided not to alter his rules to forbid these practices.Deciding to frame this as a debate, as a question of "offence", as you have, is a demonstration of bad faith, this is a question of safety, and I am offering this recommendation in the hope that it is useful.I also note that you have joined the fediverse this month, and you're already going out of your way to attack the integrity of long-established users offering genuine advice. You will find the fediverse an unwelcoming place if this is your attitude. This has been our home for a long time, treat us with respect or perish.
(DIR) Post #APOemiHmkNHfc5kg1w by publicaddress@mastodon.nz
2022-11-08T05:22:08Z
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@evelyn @zyk @flyinggeek To be fair, you seemed to be suggesting pre-emptively cutting off a server purely because it hosts journalists' accounts. You've made arbitrary assumptions about their intentions and also sort-of threatened someone who seems to be discussing the issue in good faith. Surely there's a better way to talk about it than this. Disclaimer: I am a journalist myself.
(DIR) Post #APOemitMUfLFUdKgbI by evelyn@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-11-08T09:59:32.904Z
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@publicaddress@mastodon.nz @zyk@mastodon.nz @flyinggeek@mastodon.nz I have suggested exactly that, and for the reason I outlined. The behaviour a server's rules and moderation staff allow are invariably behaviour it will exhibit with enough users, and that instance pointedly refuses to moderate it. The fundamental freedom on fediverse is federation - freedom of association. Are journalists entitled to come into your home and document all you do? Is it an affront to press freedom, a victimisation of journalists, when we are willing to take robust action to prevent vulnerable people being quoted in random news articles without consent? That appears to be the argument being made.On the note of engaging in bad faith - as both you and him are - you're accusing me of "sort-of threatening". Did I threaten, or did I not? The fact you can't seem to bring yourself to straightforwardly accuse me suggests you are aware that you are acting in bad faith.He might have joined in November, I note that you joined in October, and you are similarly conducting yourself.We have been here for a very long time indeed and it is not a "threat" in the slightest to tell you that the way you're acting is unacceptable, it's entitled, and you will ultimately be all the worse for it.On the final note, all interactions from mastodon.nz so far have been in bad faith, you come across as a bunch of terminally-online twitter users and it's a real shame. This place isn't twitter, don't pollute it with yourselves.
(DIR) Post #APRIQYHFfAbcgTPS7M by lawgeeknz@cloudisland.nz
2022-11-07T23:18:20Z
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@keith @zyk the imposition of rules and responsibilities in a distributed #fediverse 🤔 Just arrived but will add that one to my already fast growing list of legal conundrums
(DIR) Post #APRIQYn9kY7uHQKvqa by zyk@mastodon.nz
2022-11-07T23:34:18Z
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@lawgeeknz @keith Yep definitely a bit of a conundrum. I have no idea how this would play out in court, but here on our server, you get banned for violating the rules. It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.
(DIR) Post #APRIQZdGcnoIt2iY4W by lawgeeknz@cloudisland.nz
2022-11-07T23:43:28Z
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@zyk @keith I think the point Keith was making is that your ban would have no effect on people who are on another [homeinstance], I guess unless their admin has a rule that anyone banned on [zyk’s instance] will also be banned on [homeinstance]. Hopefully though, people on other instances will abide by your rule as The.Right.Thing.To.Do // ping @aurynn
(DIR) Post #APRIQa7knSCGPaytai by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-09T21:08:50Z
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@lawgeeknz> your ban would have no effect on people who are on another [homeinstance]Yes and no. @zyk and @aurynn do have the ability to block accounts on other instances, so they have no access to users or posts on their instance. They can also report abuse of their members to the admins of other instances like journa.host. If those admins won't play ball and take action on those reports Zyk and Aurynn have the ability to block ("defederate") entire instances.@keith
(DIR) Post #APRK8NqXuCGl1tNmWe by JeremyWxBaker@cloudisland.nz
2022-11-08T03:50:35Z
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@zyk @aotearoa_ben I hope you suggested that stuff.co.nz create their own instance - which is what they should do.#nzjournos #journalists
(DIR) Post #APRK8OPzmOcqnpy5mS by publicaddress@mastodon.nz
2022-11-08T05:37:30Z
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@JeremyWxBaker @zyk @aotearoa_ben Yeah, they should, but I think it's reasonable to give them time to get their heads around it. @zyk's doing a good job of kicking off the conversation.
(DIR) Post #APRK8OzReaywZmYP2G by aotearoa_ben@mastodon.nz
2022-11-08T05:40:11Z
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@zyk @publicaddress @JeremyWxBaker it’s tricky I reckon. Because sure NYTimes or Guardian can run their own instance, but it’s not really practical or affordable for The Spinoff and potentially even NZH or Stuff. Maybe an NZ-wide journo instance could work, but how do you fund it, and who decides who gets to sign up?
(DIR) Post #APRK8PWPg1LyE1yjQG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-09T21:27:58Z
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@aotearoa_ben> it’s not really practical or affordable for The Spinoff and potentially even NZH or Stuff.Really? I'm pretty sure it would be a drop in the bucket compared to costs of hosting your existing websites. I saw someone posting about their instance costing $10 a month. @lightweight @zyk @publicaddress @JeremyWxBaker
(DIR) Post #APRKU0ps8jWs28Ng9Y by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-09T21:31:58Z
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@aotearoa_benYou don't need to give accounts on your instance to anyone outside your organization. So although the accounts you have might have a lot of followers, there needn't be many of them. IANAE but I suspect a few dozen accounts, with thousands of followers each, would have a similar server load to the thousands of users on mastodon.nz, following a few dozen people each.@lightweight @zyk @publicaddress @JeremyWxBaker
(DIR) Post #APRL10xOi3FJxxdZwG by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-09T21:37:37Z
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@strypey yeah. People use to paying for proprietary software and hosting on MS Azure or Amazon AWS are used to paying hundreds of times more for this sort of thing than they need to. @aotearoa_ben @zyk @publicaddress @JeremyWxBaker
(DIR) Post #APRL84DSzSl26LW59k by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-09T21:37:56Z
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@strypey yeah. People use to proprietary software and hosting on MS Azure or Amazon AWS are used to paying hundreds of times more for this sort of thing than they need to. @aotearoa_ben @zyk @publicaddress @JeremyWxBaker
(DIR) Post #APRLCAR3oEYOY3pWbo by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2022-11-09T21:39:55Z
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@aotearoa_benKeep in mind too that Mastodon isn't your only option for hosting a fediverse instance. It has the best default UI and mod tools, but it's also a huge ball of wax written in Ruby on Rails. Pleroma is written in Elixir and can run on a Raspberry Pi, so that might be a better choice for a lighter server load:https://fediverse.party/en/pleroma/@lightweight @zyk @publicaddress @JeremyWxBaker
(DIR) Post #APRMWJYFj3TiZDMgPA by tim@cloudisland.nz
2022-11-09T21:54:33Z
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@aotearoa_ben @JeremyWxBaker @publicaddress @lightweight @strypey @zyk That does look far more manageable for a general IT department (fewer technologies). Generally I’d hope companies would find a managed hosting option though.
(DIR) Post #APRMmuL2ijKFIE6AAy by aotearoa_ben@mastodon.nz
2022-11-09T21:57:45Z
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@strypey @lightweight @zyk @publicaddress @JeremyWxBaker with respect, The Spinoff runs on the smell of an oily rag that has been wrung out and left to evaporate for 30 days. And it's really not just about cost. Our "technology department" is me and one frontend engineer. I'm not keen on setting up additional services that come with maintenance overhead to leave for the next person that comes along.