Post APQtES2gWMNX19jHGK by feld@bikeshed.party
(DIR) More posts by feld@bikeshed.party
(DIR) Post #APQawwLBKrDUbBsi3s by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T13:01:29.580146Z
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The version of Rust shipped with Debian is now too old to build the libraries required by our applicationThis is why I hate Linux's distro release management
(DIR) Post #APQb2GI4acoHv6xt20 by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T13:02:28.799114Z
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The version of Rust in the repo is supposed to be good enough for *users* for what, 5-7 years? But it's not even new enough for *developers* after a year
(DIR) Post #APQb4Qjgj0WItYupg8 by yes@social.handholding.io
2022-11-09T13:03:09.013495Z
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@feld idk, rust and nodejs are the only ecosystems where this ever is a huge problem
(DIR) Post #APQbBJkr4yAZGpkIHQ by yes@social.handholding.io
2022-11-09T13:04:23.253945Z
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@feld not every distro should be arch linux, when other ecosystems move fast they are omitted from sane distros not run by teenage adhd devs.
(DIR) Post #APQbK2L1CfxHrMoncO by AIaYYAle4i1uKmKpqy.gme@bofh.social
2022-11-09T13:05:34.952906Z
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Windows doesn't ship with Visual Studio or JDK. If I need Visual Studio to compile something I go out and get it.When I buy an application it's shipped with the libraries it needs in order to run.Why can't Linux do the same I wonder?
(DIR) Post #APQdq2Yw6W1NjNiU7c by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-11-09T13:07:11Z
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@feld There is no single "Linux's distro release management". Most software developers use rolling distros these days, so their software, also installed as packages on Linux, is usually *newer* than on other systems.Debian's focus is on (extreme) stability. That's a choice you make when picking a distro.
(DIR) Post #APQdq2ySZcRD0XeruC by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T13:33:45.793749Z
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> There is no single "Linux's distro release management".yes there is.Debian.Ubuntu.RedHat.CentOS.Fedora.Oracle Enterprise Linux.Amazon Linux.Suse.All of these distros -- the "real distros real people and companies put on servers" all follow the same release management style.I'm aware that Gentoo and Arch and even Alpine exist. They are extreme outliers.(ps Gentoo is the only good Linux distro)
(DIR) Post #APQdvnaigCZT2IIRxw by yes@social.handholding.io
2022-11-09T13:35:12.342372Z
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@feld @raucao debian is just gentoo with precompiled binaries by default. you can build it from source if you REALLY want to.
(DIR) Post #APQe5YmKbkL7zVNlYm by Mac_CZ@mastodon.macsnet.cz
2022-11-09T13:36:58Z
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@feld @raucao for example openSUSE has Tumbleweed, which is rolling and Leap, which is more traditional. But even Leap doesn't have so obsolete packages as Debian. Nothing in the world is as obsolete as Debian. I don't understand why would anybody want to use it. It's like going to museum.
(DIR) Post #APQeJmq387NneRuBo8 by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-11-09T13:37:13Z
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@feld Fedora has Rawhide, SUSE has Tumbleweed. Rolling distros *on developer machines* are normal these days.
(DIR) Post #APQeJnHhTJV72CqGuG by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T13:39:12.296465Z
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"I already have a rolling distro on my developer machine"*cries in MacOS*
(DIR) Post #APQeSNDrjqXSoN8in2 by yes@social.handholding.io
2022-11-09T13:41:06.267038Z
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@feld @raucao arch linux except it looks good
(DIR) Post #APQeV8Wup2Nk6yMqiu by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-11-09T13:40:04Z
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@feld Also, you just listed 8 different distros with different policies and with multiple different distro editions even for the same distro. That's not "Linux's release management", that's a lot of different people managing it in different ways.
(DIR) Post #APQeV95IlBt5pcSJJw by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T13:41:16.753460Z
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You've completely fallen for their illusion
(DIR) Post #APQemDpeMVbhTkHGS0 by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-11-09T13:42:07Z
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@feld I used OSX on 5 subsequent machines before switching back to Linux a few years ago. Homebrew now just looks like a crutch to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(DIR) Post #APQemERw4AEROUBq7s by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T13:44:21.953972Z
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well at least every piece of hardware on my laptop works 100% of the time and I never have to deal with a buggy desktop environment and every piece of software i could ever need is supported (proprietary and open source)
(DIR) Post #APQevX81zI9ZvqJai0 by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T13:46:05.640066Z
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like, I would literally pay $3000 for a Linux/FreeBSD laptop if they could provide the same.But that will never happen for various reasons, so I'll keep my Linux/BSD on the servers where they belong
(DIR) Post #APQfHorqiOMzJrNBM8 by Mac_CZ@mastodon.macsnet.cz
2022-11-09T13:50:23Z
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@feld @raucao I have Dell XPS 13 with openSUSE Leap on it and not once have anything not working there.
(DIR) Post #APQfQB4A460MU37KSm by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T13:51:36.746423Z
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What's your battery life? Suspend/resume always works no matter what? Your supported wifi is 802.11ax?
(DIR) Post #APQfeVmrozOonqrZQm by Mac_CZ@mastodon.macsnet.cz
2022-11-09T13:54:29Z
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@feld @raucao 8 hourssuspend/resume works all the timeI don't know about wifi, it's an older laptop, I think it has n
(DIR) Post #APQflhEZf0yQKeFTto by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T13:55:30.538899Z
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I get like 14 hours from mine lol
(DIR) Post #APQfxiuVFoB90QazBY by Mac_CZ@mastodon.macsnet.cz
2022-11-09T13:57:58Z
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@feld @raucao So you have different battery life with different battery on different laptop, great. 😂 I have the same battery life on that laptop on linux as I had with original windows there.
(DIR) Post #APQgMBNf3OHcFrtg6i by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-11-09T14:02:22Z
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@Mac_CZ @feld He's probably just proud of the M1 or M2 being more efficient, since Intel and AMD have dropped the ball on mobile performance in comparison in recent years. That's fine. Someone's even working on a Linux distro for that hardware, and Linux himself is famous for running Linux on Macs.
(DIR) Post #APQgO1DJpBkNInw1oW by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-11-09T14:02:43Z
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@Mac_CZ @feld He's probably just proud of the M1 or M2 being more efficient, since Intel and AMD have dropped the ball on mobile performance in comparison in recent years. That's fine. Someone's even working on a Linux distro for that hardware, and Linus himself is famous for running Linux on Macs.
(DIR) Post #APQtEPnir1Do4AiIfA by jollyrogue@social.tulsa.ok.us
2022-11-09T16:20:38Z
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@raucao Have you tried running rawhide? 😂Rawhide is nowhere near stable.@feld
(DIR) Post #APQtERBVi3qOMEqoNc by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-11-09T16:22:57Z
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@jollyrogue @feld It's not exactly the most popular among users of rolling distros I think. But the point was not that Rawhide is great, only that it exists and is not an outlier.
(DIR) Post #APQtERWmQyrFQCnnX6 by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-11-09T16:23:45Z
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@jollyrogue @feld Also, the point of a rolling distro is to favor new software over stability. So that's a tradeoff you make in general. That said, Arch is pretty darn stable for how up to date it is.
(DIR) Post #APQtES2gWMNX19jHGK by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T16:26:13.426385Z
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> stabilityyou mean stability as in the ABI/API has not changednot as in "the software is reliable"Because new stable releases of software ARE reliable, that's why they're stable releases.And they get security patches that don't need to be backported by people who aren't developers of the software.And they get all the unreported security fixes because upstream didn't know they were fixing a vulnerability.
(DIR) Post #APQtEVxrwCu3BNVUJM by raucao@kosmos.social
2022-11-09T16:25:35Z
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@jollyrogue @feld I would never recommend any of these to a person who's not working with, or deeply interested in, computers.
(DIR) Post #APQtSkGpXu8hbbA5Jo by jollyrogue@social.tulsa.ok.us
2022-11-09T16:27:56Z
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@feld Yeah, that’s why FreeBSD’s ports is so much nicer. There’s the core OS which is stable then everything else which people might want to run on the OS.
(DIR) Post #APQtSkmjdHezCY5Z32 by feld@bikeshed.party
2022-11-09T16:28:53.703461Z
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separation of church and state lmao
(DIR) Post #APQuZBZf2nJnyhbXFI by yetAnotherRoko@freecumextremist.com
2022-11-09T16:41:37.563450Z
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@feld isn't it kinda unreasonable to expect a general purpose distro to be suitable for production "off the self" ?