Post APAocclgNgS5TSyZzk by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #APAlhWFBlUykpFQ5Vg by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-01T21:46:53Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
You know how in Europe (or at least in Poland) home-heating radiators have these funny valves which don't have a knob, and instead have a pin that needs to be pushed to close them?And then you can screw onto them any thermostatic knob of your choice?I was wondering if there are electrical actuators that you could use with them, instead of the knob, to control them with an microcontroller or sth., but all I could find was IoT thermostatic knobs, not a single dumb actuator :(
(DIR) Post #APAlzNx5KiqsJxTH7Y by piggo@piggo.space
2022-11-01T21:50:06.342161Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl there are! the technology is called wax motor, it's fairly common, but you usually need 24V and they can take 100mA each in peak so its a bit tricky to controlhttps://hackaday.com/2018/06/18/dissecting-the-elusive-wax-motor/
(DIR) Post #APAmFt1NaP8TJWLeLI by piggo@piggo.space
2022-11-01T21:53:05.456298Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl one thing i also thought about is to add some kind of motor to the normal thermostatic valve and turn the 1-5 knob. maybe it could be 3d printed. idk
(DIR) Post #APAmdKF6XmSgOqwcxk by tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com
2022-11-01T21:57:11.334066Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl Couldn't you just use a stepper motor?
(DIR) Post #APAmplP1ODVc6sVvxg by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-01T21:59:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@piggo I've seen non-thermostatic knobs for those, they just screw onto the outer thread more as you turn them towards the closed position.Also if I was to control these digitally, using a digital thermometer, the piston found in regular thermostatic knobs seems redundant, and it could mess things up...I was thinking a smol electric motor (or servo) turning a screw that pushes something into the pin would do, but that'd probably have to be made out of metal...
(DIR) Post #APAmzfhLSAzhJVoElc by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-01T22:01:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tk I need to push and pull this thing, not rotate it, so not _just_ a stepper motor.Presumably I could use a stepper motor attached to some kind of screw that pushes something forward and backward, but I have no idea where to buy or how to make such an assembly...
(DIR) Post #APAn6rOeMD2rcgUbY0 by tk@bbs.kawa-kun.com
2022-11-01T22:02:32.775209Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl Looks like some companies sell preassembled units: https://us.nanotec.com/products/157-linear-actuator-stepper-motor
(DIR) Post #APAnWEHGQKmnpI8PvE by piggo@piggo.space
2022-11-01T22:07:15.082715Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl it doesnt need to be metal, i had some IoT ones taken apart, the gears are apparently nylonwith the thermostatic valves, my idea is to control it using time programs or just remotely. No need for a real regulator, it would do that itself.or some smartness like turn it off when a window is open, but i still don't have window sensors either
(DIR) Post #APAntlls3rBIMifxgm by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-01T22:11:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@piggo yeah if you want to keep the non-electronic temperature control (a very smart move) that'd work well.I'll keep that in mind, it's not like I'm gonna do anything with the radiators any time soon but this could be a better way to go about it.Also let me know if you do anything with yours, really curious how it goes!
(DIR) Post #APAoJyouAU9eMhapWa by digitus@medibubble.org
2022-11-01T22:16:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl Something like this? https://t1p.de/u1muq
(DIR) Post #APAocclgNgS5TSyZzk by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-01T22:19:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@digitus this is exactly the thing I was finding but didn't want.It looks like it has its own builtin thermostat. I don't want that.I want a dumb actuator.One where I tell it to "open 30%"and it opens 30 percent, regardless of temperature.
(DIR) Post #APAoiCFNtkCgxUWfgm by benis@cawfee.club
2022-11-01T22:20:35.915678Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @digitus a screw valve, in other words
(DIR) Post #APAoonYK6tNEOfX4Ua by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-01T22:21:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@benis @digitus except controleld electrically (eg. through PWM)
(DIR) Post #APAorr6ZMK4GHc0abw by benis@cawfee.club
2022-11-01T22:22:22.813233Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl @digitus attach a stepper motor
(DIR) Post #APAosC7LEeABS5X0EK by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-01T22:22:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@benis @digitus I mean in the "I tell", the "I" is any microcontroller of my choice, and the "tell" part is some kind of electric signal.
(DIR) Post #APAqSk9OHKG1NnTuhk by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-01T22:40:12Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@piggo looked up by manufacturer, and apparently in Polish these things are called "siłownik termoelektryczny" ("thermoelectric actuator"), I can find a lot of them now. Thanks!Looks like they're designed to be slow, relay-controlled, and behave as an integrator (they open more and more as you keep them powered).
(DIR) Post #APAqmQY2rwsiNYOpVo by preya@mastodon.social
2022-11-01T22:43:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl There‘s tonnes of these in Germany when you search for „Stellantrieb“ , e.g. https://amzn.eu/d/80yTALSThey’re mostly for underfloor heating, but I’m sure many of them will also fit on regular wall heaters or there are adapters for it.
(DIR) Post #APAv9ywdY6D1XFOCGW by ignaloidas@not.acu.lt
2022-11-01T23:32:53.540Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl@mstdn.io This is basic on/off one, but a search point probably https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1416617103.html
(DIR) Post #APAvxRexZnQWmZht1E by ignaloidas@not.acu.lt
2022-11-01T23:41:49.537Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl@mstdn.io with a little more searching, seems like aliexpress only has on/off variants. And probably, most smart ones do it digitally too, semi-open valves can result in noise. Seem to be available in 230V and 24V voltages, NC or NO variants, from a bunch of manufacturers. Search "Heating valve actuator" to get it.
(DIR) Post #APAxwFH8KqTPzZ7My8 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-02T00:04:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ignaloidas yeah these are thermoactuators, see piggo's reply, he already helped me find them.They're on/off but they take 2 minutes (!) to fully open/close, so you can PWM them. They work by electrically heating a phase-change material that expands and pushes onto the valve's pin.
(DIR) Post #APAyRlce7UiLI8D8me by ignaloidas@not.acu.lt
2022-11-02T00:09:42.880Z
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@wolf480pl@mstdn.io Ah, I think I've heard about them. But can't see piggo's reply for some reason...
(DIR) Post #APAyWgKREGNKJz2PFQ by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-02T00:10:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ignaloidas also these valves are globe/needle valves, which - unlike ball valves - are designed to operate partially open. Idk if they make noise, but certainly not enough to be an issue when using regular non-electric thermostatic knobs
(DIR) Post #APAyejS9Uq2iKPU73A by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-02T00:12:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ignaloidas can you see my reply to piggo's reply? https://mstdn.io/@wolf480pl/109270952357591054
(DIR) Post #APAyygFV7PvWBO4yZN by ignaloidas@not.acu.lt
2022-11-02T00:15:40.219Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl@mstdn.io I can on your instance, but seems like my server can't fetch piggo's replies, so it kinda just errors out?
(DIR) Post #APAzX7lDL0sFM0Kwue by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-02T00:21:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ignaloidas can you see piggo's posts at all?
(DIR) Post #APAzfRJkVdVEKFSIk4 by ignaloidas@not.acu.lt
2022-11-02T00:23:23.603Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl@mstdn.io through your instance. Their instance seems to block anonymous access, which is probably why my instance gets 404'd trying to get their posts. Sent them a follow, might fix it.
(DIR) Post #APCtj7bTXLaIvu2UNc by teknomunk@pl.polaris-1.work
2022-11-02T22:25:57.339005Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl Sounds like you are looking for a solenoid.https://www.mouser.com/c/?q=solenoid
(DIR) Post #APCwEYFMj92GS2oPMu by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
2022-11-02T22:54:19Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@teknomunk do they allow me to keep the valve 42% open?
(DIR) Post #APCxOYfy5QkIdFagam by teknomunk@pl.polaris-1.work
2022-11-02T23:07:03.256822Z
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@wolf480pl I don't think a simple solenoid would be able to do 42% by itself, and certainly not with any level of precision. Not being familiar with how these valves work, I mistook> instead have a pin that needs to be pushed to close them?as meaning it had only an 'on' or 'off' state and not states in between. Maybe a servo motor would be better suited for what you want?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servomotor
(DIR) Post #APCyB6GWVKsihyprpA by Rayfield@poa.st
2022-11-02T23:16:08.620654Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wolf480pl There is a variety of small linear servos but I'm not familiar with how much force this application requires. That's where I would start searching.