Post AP88PYSHYnpePHFXZA by ellen@mastodon.cloud
(DIR) More posts by ellen@mastodon.cloud
(DIR) Post #AP4SLpqoAAdXePNxxo by scottjenson@mastodon.social
2022-10-29T19:50:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
It's clear mastodon.social is huge and can get a bit overwhelmed with traffic. The "right thing to do" is to pick another, smaller instance but it's so fear inducing! Which one to pick? What if it goes under? I know, it SHOULDN'T be a big deal but for novices, this is clearly a problem #UX #UXdesign
(DIR) Post #AP4SLqU9ns71cRnOIS by jyasskin@mastodon.social
2022-10-29T20:00:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@scottjenson This is an intrinsic problem with federation. And kind of like email, if Mastodon gets actually popular, I expect a few massive servers to win, and have to block most of the rest to protect their users from spam.
(DIR) Post #AP4SLr6nUD1LYHsFWa by scottjenson@mastodon.social
2022-10-29T20:01:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jyasskin But that's been sold as a strength, e.g. if I join an instance that takes moderation seriously and boots spammers, we won't have a problem. But if an instance *is* just for spammers, it's easy to ignore the entire domain
(DIR) Post #AP4SLrVbzws0nFU4Ce by jyasskin@mastodon.social
2022-10-29T20:05:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@scottjenson And how'd that work out for email?I mean, hopefully I'm wrong, but I don't see architectural differences that would change the outcome.
(DIR) Post #AP4SLs2w03WcSb4g8u by ondra@social.unextro.net
2022-10-29T20:41:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jyasskin But big e-mail servers aren't blocking smaller ones because of spam? (I agree with the few big servers winning but as long as others can participate that would still be a huge progress.) @scottjenson
(DIR) Post #AP4SLt7E1aYFmC5cTA by jyasskin@mastodon.social
2022-10-29T20:31:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@scottjenson This isn't dystopian even if I'm right. It just means #TipYourServer to help them afford their inevitable #TrustAndSafety team.
(DIR) Post #AP4c1YRy9DFvQwjf2e by jyasskin@mastodon.social
2022-10-29T21:51:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ondra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System-based_blocklist and https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx describe exactly that kind of blocking. I haven't tried to run my own email, so I can't personally vouch for it being really hard, but it's easy to find stories about it.
(DIR) Post #AP5KOCsqtQdxBqvBpY by ondra@social.unextro.net
2022-10-30T06:47:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jyasskin Oh yes, commonly shared blocklists will inevitably emerge. (They are already shared manually.)I thought that you've meant that no new mailserver can effectively join anymore.
(DIR) Post #AP88PYSHYnpePHFXZA by ellen@mastodon.cloud
2022-10-29T21:21:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@scottjenson @jyasskin I mean, I blocked a bunch of fake news sites with just one ban of fox’s servers. I like the idea that the collective behavior makes it easier to somehow self-sort?
(DIR) Post #AP88PYtZvJfNlw1L72 by jyasskin@mastodon.social
2022-10-29T22:08:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ellen @scottjenson It's a nice idea, but now imagine you're a country or billionaire trying to get around that ban. You can create new domains faster than volunteer moderators can keep up with, and you can create new accounts on open servers similarly fast.Either this stays niche, or we'll need to pay for moderation teams.
(DIR) Post #AP88PZEqeEgEptyKGW by scottjenson@mastodon.social
2022-10-30T02:24:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jyasskin @ellen I see your point but the only alternative is the Twitter model (which seems to work even less effectively) What I find hopeful about the federated model is that if it really did get that bad, an instance could flip to default banned and have members nominate new instances. Again, nothing is perfect (I'm sure there are holes) My point is the the federated model at least feels slightly better than the alternative.
(DIR) Post #AP88PZiGsqDSJ9jp7w by jyasskin@toot.cafe
2022-10-31T14:19:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@scottjenson @ellen This adds up to making it hard for new people to join, which I think was the UX problem that started this thread.It's expensive to vet a new account, and the people trying to make that new account aren't yet invested enough to pay that cost themselves. So to expand past a niche, we'll have to plan for funding that vetting, which in large companies is called a #TrustAndSafety team.
(DIR) Post #AP88Pa4FZ7nTPK1NNw by jyasskin@toot.cafe
2022-10-31T14:30:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@scottjenson @ellen It's taking @Gargron＠mastodon.social 14-hour days to moderate the easiest-to-join instance, and his Patreon is only pulling in, IIRC, €7k/month. That's not sustainable.
(DIR) Post #AP88PaOoKgFAR5dnQu by ondra@social.unextro.net
2022-10-31T15:17:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jyasskin Federation model doesn't magically solve moderation.Gargron is not moderating mastodon.social alone, there's a whole moderation team. And he certainly doesn't spend 14 hours doing just that. As it is the case on most bigger servers. Pretty sure the moderators/users ratio is still much better than on Twitter, for example.It's all quite overwhelming for a lot of people at the moment, but yes, more donations are always welcome.@scottjenson @ellen