Post AP3ZmcDTT72vhikDJ2 by aral@mastodon.ar.al
(DIR) More posts by aral@mastodon.ar.al
(DIR) Post #AP3ZmajeyTbT6xmtCC by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2022-10-29T09:54:20Z
7 likes, 15 repeats
Dear #TwitterMigration folks, an important tip on #privacy on the fediverse:There is none.This is a public medium; please treat it as such. Just as you have no privacy on Twitter (Elon Musk can read all your DMs), you have no privacy on the instance you’re on (your administrators can read all your posts).You can set the visibility of a post but that’s a viewing suggestion, not a privacy guarantee.Think of your posts as postcards, not sealed letters, and you should be fine.#fediTips
(DIR) Post #AP3ZmcDTT72vhikDJ2 by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2022-10-29T10:01:09Z
2 likes, 4 repeats
Even if you run your own instance, like I do, you have no #privacy on the #fediverse.Only I get to read the direct messages received at my instance but I have no control over who sees the direct messages I send to other instances.So, again, until end-to-end encryption is mandated by the core protocol (ActivityPub), remember:Treat all posts on #mastodon / the fediverse as public and use an end-to-end encrypted messaging app like Signal if you want to have private conversations with people.
(DIR) Post #AP3k6aAXmyfwgiX8QS by sydneyfalk@elekk.xyz
2022-10-29T10:04:45Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@aral (arguably it’s worth telling new folks from Twitter that the whole internet itself isn’t terribly secure; they were being reassured by delusional business predators, that’s all! 🙃)
(DIR) Post #AP3qntyUcxEeI6w6dc by esdin@peoplemaking.games
2022-10-29T10:32:02Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@aral This is, of course, super useful and true, but the DM pane highlights it, and feditips is being heavily looked at by folks trying to orient themselves here; not sure it's a great topline post for new folks to see, might scare em a bit!
(DIR) Post #AP48aik6sHxUrl4aY4 by LunaDragofelis@snowdin.town
2022-10-29T10:07:35.152522Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral Other messenging alternatives with end to end encryption are Matrix and XMPP. Those two are even decentralized like the fediverse.
(DIR) Post #AP48ajAhHRE4CDVozQ by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T12:12:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@LunaDragofelis @aral Must we always have this conversation? XMPP and Matrix will unfortunately never reach mainstream. And this post is quite clearly aimed at the mainstream. Signal has the best chance to succeed in this space, by a wide margin too.
(DIR) Post #AP48ajdPYgC7dGwkkK by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-29T17:00:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dusnm "XMPP and Matrix will unfortunately never reach mainstream"Define "mainstream", @LunaDragofelis @aral
(DIR) Post #AP48mwNdzoNWdaOLlg by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T17:02:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@selea @LunaDragofelis @aral I’m not here to debate semantics. You know what I meant.
(DIR) Post #AP4A5dKR9bVZ0QMvrM by oklomsy@fedi.cheeseland.xyz
2022-10-29T17:11:34.381963Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@selea @dusnm @LunaDragofelis @aral I kinda hate how we measure a technology's success by "mainstream" or how many people uses it. It doesn't say anything about how useful a technology is itself.
(DIR) Post #AP4A5ds78ORkgs7pLs by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T17:12:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea Is it useful if nobody’s using it? See, I can move goalposts too.
(DIR) Post #AP4A5eGve8IPvpje1w by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-29T17:17:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dusnm I may live in a bubble, but 90% of my contacts use it.So it is "mainstream" for me @oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis
(DIR) Post #AP4ANGN3FW2b12zxBI by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-29T17:20:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dusnmAnd to add to that, they use it extensively too on their communication with their friends @oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis
(DIR) Post #AP4AWFLCRoWGQbPq7s by oklomsy@fedi.cheeseland.xyz
2022-10-29T17:12:08.967403Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@selea @LunaDragofelis @aral @dusnm Virtually nothing would change if the entire world used XMPP versus if no one used it. It would still remain the same, just as with ActivityPub arguably.
(DIR) Post #AP4AWFqOZpTNzM0kka by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T17:20:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea If a tree falls in a forest and nobody’s around to observe it, did it fall at all? You can have the most useful technology on the planet, but if nobody’s using it that itself renders it useless. We don’t need alternatives, we need the alternative, singular. Too much choice is paralyzing. Focus on Signal, because it’s familiar to what people already use.
(DIR) Post #AP4AWGJ6r4RRQPRgVU by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-29T17:21:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dusnmI really dont understand that argument in this case tbh, @oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis
(DIR) Post #AP4AgdLU3POrlyV9yi by oklomsy@fedi.cheeseland.xyz
2022-10-29T17:22:45.597707Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@dusnm @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea I wish we had a universal standard but that's why technology is awesome! Lot's of different ways to do different things. No one is perfectly satisfied with a universal standard and there will always be someone who will complain.It's why we have XMPP, Matrix and IRC. It's why we have ActivityPub, Pump.io and OStatus. It's why we have mp3, ogg and flac.Not a single one is perfect on its own.
(DIR) Post #AP4Ahw4buT2296EKQK by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-29T17:23:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oklomsy Well said,
(DIR) Post #AP4AlpxuYrSuMOxOa0 by oklomsy@fedi.cheeseland.xyz
2022-10-29T17:23:59.784519Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@dusnm @LunaDragofelis @aral @selea People will inevitably invent new things, just for the fun of it, even if they are not useful or popular. That's why Matrix and XMPP matter too, even if they're not "mainstream"
(DIR) Post #AP4BEMh4TI6TyRgQQi by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T17:27:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea The point is that most people are satisfied. We’re talking about communication here. Nobody uses WhatsApp because they particularly like it, they use it because all of their contacts use it. So yeah, it may be a bummer, but people prefer one big centralized platform over a distributed one.
(DIR) Post #AP4BEN339ZgV4bxygi by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-29T17:29:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dusnm Oh I have meet plenty of people that uses whatsapp and they genuinely like it. @oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis
(DIR) Post #AP4BkWMS40PTDvN77w by oklomsy@fedi.cheeseland.xyz
2022-10-29T17:31:15.097586Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@selea @dusnm @aral @LunaDragofelis My own family uses WhatsApp, my attempts to get them to switch to Signal has failed sadly.
(DIR) Post #AP4BkWqwEenQkTdSe8 by getimiskon@udongein.xyz
2022-10-29T17:35:39.714382Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oklomsy @dusnm @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea I got my mom to use XMPP for some time. She told me it was easy to use. Unfortunately, her phone couldn't run Conversations for some reason, which couldn't let her use the voice/video calls function I had on my server at that time.
(DIR) Post #AP4BxkQ16qUWaRLXWq by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2022-10-29T17:38:11.241286Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
That's a great point. Who cares if someone we don't know uses a social technology? As long as the people we know use it, we're good.And the flipside of that is that if enough of the people we know stop using some big tech solution and move to open distributed solutions, it doesn't matter how many users are here or there, the people who count are where you need them to be.
(DIR) Post #AP4Ix0Qqmm5XdoKVCy by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T17:33:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea It’s a catch 22. Nobody will switch to Signal because their friends aren’t there.
(DIR) Post #AP4Ix0wOtTKFDf5hNw by bonifartius@qoto.org
2022-10-29T18:56:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dusnm if nobody bothers to switch to CIAgnal anyway .. why shouldn't i try to have them switch to something actually good and federated in the first place? in fact xmpp or matrix have one more friend there than signal: me.@oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea
(DIR) Post #AP4JFqZlefE6ZhU7Ga by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T18:59:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bonifartius @oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea CIAgnal, funny. I'm very skeptical of federation. Not because it's not good, it is, but because people ultimately don't care. And Eugen is very right when he makes Mastodon hide the decentralized aspect of it as much as possible. You don't sell people on technicalities, you sell them on community.
(DIR) Post #AP4KOJMMcZUK7JobRY by bonifartius@qoto.org
2022-10-29T19:12:37Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@dusnm if you are skeptical about it, why are you even here? just use twitter, it's what the people use!we will be stuck in the mediocre world of the lowest common denominator forever. so many good ideas died because of this reasoning, especially in IT.@oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea
(DIR) Post #AP4KhdF0vVRJHRaeJM by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T19:16:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bonifartius @oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea The community is smaller and more attuned to my needs and interests. That's the number one reason I'm here on Fosstodon.Unfortunately, we need to design systems with the lowest common denominator in mind if they are to have the broadest appeal possible. There have been and indeed still are people who design systems that cater to elites in whatever field, so finding your niche shouldn't be an issue.
(DIR) Post #AP4Lei8GNvWvXFbTqC by bonifartius@qoto.org
2022-10-29T19:26:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dusnm i don't get the reasoning that things have to _match_ the already existing taste and knowledge of people.some time ago, people were first using whatsapp, or telegram or android or an iphone. they just learned how to use those things.if something else requires learning, people will learn it if it has something in exchange. things like "cloudflare is broken, again, but i still can send messages here, cool".if we are stuck in perpetually replicating commercial software, we will forever fail. we don't use our greatest strength that we don't have to amass "sales".look, the normies managed to ruin everything even when NOT using linux. the _idea_ of "normies will use this" gave birth to so many things (consolekit, pulse, systemd, etc.) that are technically unsound, it's not even funny anymore. thus i'm heavily opposed to cater to their needs. either people want to use good tools, or they don't. not showing them in the first place is the wrong choice.@oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea
(DIR) Post #AP4Lqgt2qDpn9DCJm4 by bryanbrake@mastodon.social
2022-10-29T18:56:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oklomsy @dusnm @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea https://xkcd.org/927This forever
(DIR) Post #AP4LqhNX0sDkflSfIG by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-29T19:28:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bryanbrake xkdc.org does not load for me atm, but I guess it is that IRC comic@oklomsy @dusnm @aral @LunaDragofelis
(DIR) Post #AP4LwS8eaVRX90FKAS by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T19:29:54Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bonifartius @oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea I want a world where my grandma can use the technology I help create. I'm not against people learning new things, but it's my idea that we can streamline the process until it becomes intuitive for most people.
(DIR) Post #AP4MElYR8fSqZe2RQu by selea@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-29T19:33:12Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@dusnm My mother in law uses Element/Matrix, and finds it very convenient.Calls work, video-calls work, 1:1 chat works, group chats work.She is not technical, but has understood the concept after a 3 minute explanation.@bonifartius @oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis
(DIR) Post #AP4MfsyndkNBQCIjPE by bonifartius@qoto.org
2022-10-29T19:38:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dusnm i think that the problems software solves can't be made easier infinitively. at some point making things "easier" means cutting functionality. you can optimize the representation of a problem (and solution), but going further will change the problem.@oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea
(DIR) Post #AP4MugcBtTkPPumdcG by dusnm@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T19:40:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bonifartius @oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea I agree in principle. But I would say that if cutting functionality helps make the core of what the program is meant to do more intuitive then I'd certainly consider it. I myself use Vim for almost all my typing, and that's fine, but I can't expect my grandma to go through the trouble of learning it, just to write an email. See what I mean?
(DIR) Post #AP4OdKYaqrbXzTx7z6 by bonifartius@qoto.org
2022-10-29T20:00:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@dusnm i do see the comparison, i'd argue that instant message protocols are a bit different: you don't choose a tool which has no influence on others, but on everyone using it. people receiving the mail can read it in a web mail UI or in mutt. if there just is no federation in a messenger, i have no choice but to use a single server.the editor example is pretty good: you can write a mail with notepad or with vi, as the interface is "text". just to compare, you can't have features like "doesn't break when cloudflare breaks" or "can't be taken down completely by governments" with centralized protocols.@oklomsy @aral @LunaDragofelis @selea
(DIR) Post #AP4RVj7lvVP1jNTOKW by aral@mastodon.ar.al
2022-10-29T10:09:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sydneyfalk (And that security and privacy are related but not the same. People farmers try to keep your data secure from everyone else but themselves and the entities they rent access to but you have zero privacy. On the other hand, without proper security, you can’t have the expectation of privacy. Big Tech likes to conflate the two because they know that while they can provide some semblance of security, they can’t provide privacy because their business model relies on them violating it.)
(DIR) Post #AP4UPxgXB2bX0zfvqy by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2022-10-29T21:04:58.638319Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Good point.The #Fediverse needs #E2EE but we don’t have it yet.
(DIR) Post #AP4V4CSHgIguPJCHXE by smallsees@social.dropbear.xyz
2022-10-29T21:12:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@esdin I'm torn by this. On the one hand it does look scary but on the other @aral is right to let people know.The end-to-end encryption idea is interesting but not sure how (or if) that can work if your client is just a web browser. Most E2E stuff uses a specific client on the user's device.Client TLS certificates won't do it because that's only to the first server.
(DIR) Post #AP4ZYeCbTy7Ay2dWwC by dusan@fosstodon.org
2022-10-29T22:02:20Z
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@selea you probably do because 90% of my contacts don’t even know Matrix/XMPP exists and once they get inteoduiced to it, they don’t really bother switching. People use what people they want to talk to use. If that’s Matrix/XMPP they’ll use it but if it’s not, it’s not very likely in my experience that the whole group would switch to a different platform. Usually there shoud be a “boss” that says which platform is going to be used, I’ve seen no other way.
(DIR) Post #AP5t4BTzt9h9RvU384 by 2ck@qoto.org
2022-10-30T13:15:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@selea xkcd is a .com... @bryanbrake @oklomsy @dusnm @aral @LunaDragofelis
(DIR) Post #AP8JRykDt3iu1602qW by matschaffer@mastodon.online
2022-10-30T02:36:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aral great point! What do folks here use for DM anyway. Signal? But how to link to yourself… still trying to figure out that gap in my #TwitterMigration
(DIR) Post #AP8JRzTFBfjgGj401I by nosherwan@fosstodon.org
2022-10-30T03:10:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matschaffer @aral excellent question. Funny I didnt realise there are no DMs here, LOL.
(DIR) Post #AP8JRzzVFjXXsm9lIm by matschaffer@mastodon.online
2022-10-30T03:18:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nosherwan @aral there's a handful of colleagues I still DM with on twitter as a default. No idea what to ask them to switch to 😆
(DIR) Post #AP8JS10bT80x2Tg9ei by nosherwan@fosstodon.org
2022-10-30T03:19:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@matschaffer @aral well there must be a open source version of a direct messaging app...I do use #whatsApp for #family and friends, but its not ideal.
(DIR) Post #AP8JS1ZLNxnsmDvto0 by adam@social.librem.one
2022-10-31T17:20:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nosherwan @matschaffer @aral Email is open source messaging that everyone has built into every device and will probably never go away. Have you tried @delta as a client that works a lot like WhatsApp?
(DIR) Post #AP9VIzSMDxpjlItwFk by matschaffer@mastodon.online
2022-11-01T07:08:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@adam @nosherwan @aral @delta hey thanks! Interesting approach to the problem.
(DIR) Post #APACFfcJpH0vOLDwSe by adam@social.librem.one
2022-11-01T15:09:42Z
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@matschaffer @nosherwan @aral There are a lot of advantages, and the disadvantages might be mitigated with stuff like DANE soon. I wrote this a while back: https://pocketnow.com/10-ways-delta-chat-is-better-than-whatsapp-signal-and-telegram/
(DIR) Post #APAo5mj8Kieony7nM0 by nosherwan@fosstodon.org
2022-11-01T22:13:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@adam @matschaffer @aral Nice article 👍🏼