Post AOyTdG7efluB3lNVWi by geoma@chilemasto.casa
(DIR) More posts by geoma@chilemasto.casa
(DIR) Post #AOxm27eqsvRY40x2ki by dachary@mastodon.online
2022-10-26T15:10:54Z
2 likes, 12 repeats
The Gitea Ltd company took over the @Gitea project.The domains & trademark, previously under the governance of elected community leaders are now owned by a for-profit corporation based in Hong Kong.I work daily on the Gitea codebase as part of my efforts to further forge federation in @forgefriends and did not get any advance warning, just as most volunteer contributors.I would welcome, use, contribute and support a fork of Gitea with a healthy governance.https://forum.forgefriends.org/t/gitea-limited-company/917
(DIR) Post #AOxmbT1HSEEoS3IOOm by gitea@social.gitea.io
2022-10-26T15:23:48Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@dachary @forgefriends > The domains & trademark, previously under the governance of elected community leadersThis is false, the domains and trademark have always been Lunnys. Please stop spreading FUD.
(DIR) Post #AOxoYFOvpaOZFnx0rI by dachary@mastodon.online
2022-10-26T15:45:56Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@gitea @forgefriends Lunny was the legitimate owner of the trademark and the domain because he was elected by the community. Under the promise to transfer ownership to future elected owners.Gitea Ltd has not been elected by community members and yet, it now owns both.As a consequence, the domains and trademark are no longer under the governance of the Gitea community.https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#owners
(DIR) Post #AOxpInUNQRYsIQh71U by gitea@social.gitea.io
2022-10-26T15:54:41Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@dachary @forgefriends Again, false. The trademark and domains have never been owned by the project. He has never promised to transfer them to any future owners.
(DIR) Post #AOxqVH5vHJw3Xsln2u by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-26T16:09:25Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@dachary @forgefriends Why is claiming copyright still so common in open source software projects? Why don't these projects give their trademarks and copy right to the public domain so that these kinds of hijacks can't happen?Thinking the whole #Jabber / #XMPP debacle. The code might be free to copy, but it's kinda tedious if you have to come up with a new name for the same community-driven project while some single for-profit party snitches the trademarks.
(DIR) Post #AOxqfMrMhMFUK0m0GW by dachary@mastodon.online
2022-10-26T16:09:33Z
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@gitea @forgefriends This is literally what the Gitea documentation reads:> When the new owners have been elected, the old owners will give up ownership to the newly elected owners.It does not say "except for the domain and the trademark" which are two very significant assets (if not the most significant) a Free Software project owns.https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#owners
(DIR) Post #AOxqtIUXjfMopQjye8 by dachary@mastodon.online
2022-10-26T16:13:43Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@stevenroose @forgefriends I'm all in favor of DCO (Developer Certificate of Origin) instead of a single organization running the project owning all the copyright.I've been told that a number of companies requiring CLA (Contributor License Agreement) changed their views on the matter. Because they keep piling up and lawyers need to deal with them forever đ
(DIR) Post #AOxqvplezFLUbyxMci by mmu_man@m.g3l.org
2022-10-26T16:14:15Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose @dachary @forgefriends you can't just "give copyright to the public domain", you need an entity legally able to defend them against abuse, either a person, a corp or a foundationâŚ
(DIR) Post #AOxr9fafceMb6MPhc8 by dachary@mastodon.online
2022-10-26T16:16:39Z
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@stevenroose @forgefriends trademark is a different topic though. I'm not aware of any way to declare a trademark to be in the public domain.The only way to achieve that is for the trademark to be used during years by a large number of third parties without any objection from the owner of the trademark.In other words, if left undefended for long enough a trademark de-facto falls in the public domain as it becomes increasingly difficult for the owner to go to court after years of neglect.
(DIR) Post #AOxuNjq8v2yoCL3Cq0 by icedquinn@blob.cat
2022-10-26T16:52:54.744337Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@dachary @forgefriends > used by blender> because phabricator died> phabricator died:blobcatnotlikethis2: NO
(DIR) Post #AOy2HPe9sqm3SuwKBM by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-26T18:21:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mmu_man @dachary @forgefriends What kind of abuse?..
(DIR) Post #AOy2RhTETD7fdmjbjE by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-26T18:23:15Z
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@dachary @forgefriends I mean if you invent a name and a logo and attribute it to the public domain, no one else can register it as a trademark, right? You just need to timestamp the time of invention (#OpenTimestamps and Twitter or something) and any party being sued by someone falsely claiming the copyright/trademark should be able to defend themselves using that.
(DIR) Post #AOy67l4flFDYqJzeZU by AIaYYAle4i1uKmKpqy.gme@bofh.social
2022-10-26T19:04:08.503568Z
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That's not a guarantee.
(DIR) Post #AOyAw8rXzT5wuu8OYa by simon@en.osm.town
2022-10-26T19:58:22Z
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@stevenroose @dachary @forgefriends https://xkcd.com/386/ but:No, this is totally not how it works. There is literally no protection against anybody from registering an unprotected 'word' as a trademark, outside of the restrictions that apply to them in general (not descriptive etc.). Which is why you will see not only corps but large non-profits registering and defending their marks quite vigorously.
(DIR) Post #AOyCEwHd5HDbMJrS8O by Bobo_PK@chaos.social
2022-10-26T20:05:11Z
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@dachary @gitea @forgefriends it went very silent from here... :thisisfine:
(DIR) Post #AOyCEwtCpZHBErRShk by gitea@social.gitea.io
2022-10-26T20:11:25Z
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@Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends lots of notifications today, and this response was missed. thanks for the ping Bobo_PK. The reference in the document is about the project itself, not anyone's personal assets.
(DIR) Post #AOyEau2eIaaSgaSHEu by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-26T20:39:22Z
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@gme How so? Genuine question
(DIR) Post #AOyEiST4hXnpU4PzP6 by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-26T20:40:44Z
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@simon @dachary @forgefriends So if someone uses a name that they haven't trademarked, someone else can go trademark it and sue them? I suppose this is US, is this EU too?
(DIR) Post #AOyFAlo0OkKrZChzBQ by Bobo_PK@chaos.social
2022-10-26T20:44:03Z
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@gitea @dachary @forgefriends I am not a lawyer and I assume most of your contributors and users are neither. To me the name of a project is part of the project. It is what people identify the project and the idea behind it. You might be legally right but it looks like a sell out of the community and its values.This opinion is based on those few replies I read here. I might be totally wrong
(DIR) Post #AOyFJZr4CRCx6oL8l6 by AIaYYAle4i1uKmKpqy.gme@bofh.social
2022-10-26T20:47:07.051306Z
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Because nothing is certain unless the Examiner looking at your application approves your application it and it's no guarantee that they'll accept a "open source timestamp" as proof. For that matter people have tried mailing themselves a letter with their trademark in it and hoping that the postmark (by the USPS) would suffice. Again, it's up to the Examiner.
(DIR) Post #AOyGEPjSVZ1ODhsp9c by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-10-26T20:57:43.871765Z
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@dachary @forgefriends and iâd like to know the names of the people who made the decision to sell without telling people. So we can give them a proper response.
(DIR) Post #AOyGXkztfXaxftnNjs by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-26T21:01:13Z
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@gme But does this process happen upon lawsuit or when the troll makes the claim. I.e. does the rightful user need to be vigilant and react to false claims on the name he's using or can he just relax until someone sues him and then he has to defend?
(DIR) Post #AOyH0SEcVTQHsjMlAu by AIaYYAle4i1uKmKpqy.gme@bofh.social
2022-10-26T21:06:04.582765Z
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I don't know, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not a Patent/ Trademark Examiner.But I do know that if you have a design you want to trademark the only guarantee is to file an application and get a Trademark issued.I absolutely would not rely on a "poor man's trademark".
(DIR) Post #AOyMziphuPywnNkOgK by wizzwizz4@fosstodon.org
2022-10-26T22:11:37Z
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@gitea @dachary @forgefriends Every time I've seen this kind of thing happen before, the people who say "Please stop spreading FUD." are not in the right. I assume this is the same.I doubt it'll affect anything, but: people do forgive. You don't *have* to double-down; you have the option of not doing so.I'm not asking for an off-the-cuff opinion, but I would be interested to see how @nlnetlabs chooses to respond to this, r.e. the NGI0 grant (see https://nlnet.nl/project/Gitea/).
(DIR) Post #AOyTdG7efluB3lNVWi by geoma@chilemasto.casa
2022-10-26T23:27:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mmu_man @stevenroose @dachary @forgefriends like the FSF
(DIR) Post #AOyn7oBKVIwIVdNT96 by moonbolt@mst3k.interlinked.me
2022-10-26T20:42:49Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@dachary (@gitea) Alright, everycreature. They pulled a Freenode; time to counter with a LiberaChat.
(DIR) Post #AOyn7pJsH1Mu2QNo6S by moonbolt@mst3k.interlinked.me
2022-10-26T20:44:45Z
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@Codeberg (@dachary) So you'll be switching to the fork when it lands, yes? :)
(DIR) Post #AOyn7pkoeqv3NyzK64 by Codeberg@social.anoxinon.de
2022-10-26T21:54:09Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@moonbolt We will not take any sides too soon, but will carefully evaluate pro's and con's.We are trying to be independent and do whatever is best for libre software hosting on Codeberg.We somehow still hope that there is no need for a fork, but we'll see.@dachary
(DIR) Post #AOywTNc0rw2k3zDezI by Stefan@fedi.absturztau.be
2022-10-27T04:51:03.313309Z
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@dachary @forgefriends Maybe @codeberg can fill a void for you? Though it is not strictly gitea but they base themselves on it. Codeberg is owned by a (german) non-profit
(DIR) Post #AOyxJlGMBIcoTO4EAS by Stefan@fedi.absturztau.be
2022-10-27T05:00:24.041062Z
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@dachary @forgefriends Seems like I tagged the wrong account sorry this one is the correct one for codeberg: @Codeberg
(DIR) Post #AOz9SMVcmczHkz4mdU by 0@mamot.fr
2022-10-27T07:16:29Z
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@stevenroose> Why don't these projects give their trademarks and copy right to the public domainWithout knowing the specifics of the example that you mention: because then any of the million scammers on the internet can take any popular #FOSS, pack it with malware, and quite legitimately redistribute it on the Google bazaar and any other venues, to the detriment of users.@dachary @forgefriends
(DIR) Post #AOzHaIXiDHINPCLce0 by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-27T08:47:35Z
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@0 @dachary @forgefriends That surely is a problem.. But can't we find solutions to that without using copyright law? Installing from a domain name? App vendors that perform better scrutiny over their apps, ...Like with so many things, the violent solution (laws) is obviously the easiest one; but also the easiest to have unexpected side effects when enforced blindly. I like to do the mental exercise of seeing how we can solve such problems without laws.
(DIR) Post #AOzI3MLz7idDceihXs by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-27T08:52:50Z
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@gitea @Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends "the project itself" is people's personal assets, their supposed copyright on the code. Logos and names are no different. They are legally personal assets that belong to the project. I would interpret that line as a promise to hand over any project-related assets to whomever the community deems should have them.
(DIR) Post #AOzIH1a79OCrFkqRf6 by paul@notnull.click
2022-10-26T20:27:49.454181Z
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@gitea I think new blog post clarifying some details may be useful - the community has, reasonably, become a bit troubled today after the latest news.I am happy to support Gitea developers through donations, but I cannot bring myself to support anyone who actively uses crypto-currencys. if it's just one potential option being discussed for now then fine, discuss it, but I strongly advise Gitea Ltd to avoid stepping any further down that avenue at all costs.@Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends
(DIR) Post #AOzIH2D6oPOlCh5aRU by sebastian@chaos.social
2022-10-26T21:11:05Z
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@paul @gitea @Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends Definitely this. I can not in good conscience use a project that is associated with that crypto currency bullshit. I also can no longer recommend it to others and I will actively advise others against using it. If this means I have to go back to gitweb for my personal projects, then so be it. (That being said I will happily donate 120⏠a year to a fork project, provided it promises not to get involved with crypto currencies.)
(DIR) Post #AOzIH2wU5hh7TQJpAW by koherecoWatchdog@freeradical.zone
2022-10-27T07:37:03Z
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@sebastian @forgefriends @dachary @Bobo_PK @gitea @paul For the record, I would not donate to a project that does /not/ accept #cryptocurrency. The pro-forced-banking segment of society excludes people who cannot or will not open a bank account. As banks worsen, itâs increasingly important to have an alternative.
(DIR) Post #AOzIH3Sk9lUz5TPaS0 by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-27T08:55:17Z
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@koherecoWatchdog @sebastian @forgefriends @dachary @Bobo_PK @gitea @paul Well accepting Bitcoin for donations is something different than going the ICO/DAO nonsense route.This whole discussions stems from who owns the intellectual property that belongs to the project (name, logo, code, domain name) and DAOs can't legally own these, so it'd just be nonsense. There's nothing wrong with just having a community with a forum where governance is discussed amongst members.
(DIR) Post #AOzIH3frMzzTk9Y3tY by koherecoWatchdog@freeradical.zone
2022-10-27T07:49:30Z
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@paul @gitea @Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends @sebastian For @paulâs info, the #bitlbee client cannot visit threads that do not have a hashtag in some circumstances (#bug). I was only able to reach this thread incidentally b/c @stevenroose tagged jabber. Itâs disappointing how few tags are used. Also, please try to understand the difference between âproof of workâ & âproof of stakeâ.
(DIR) Post #AOzIH3rCgp44JKr7Zo by sebastian@chaos.social
2022-10-26T21:15:31Z
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@paul @gitea @Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends Gitea has become an important part of my workflow for my personal projects, and migrating away from it will take a signifikant portion of the time I allocated to work on said projects. However there are certain things that are non-negotiable and my stance against burning up the planet for short term profits on an internet points scam is one of those.
(DIR) Post #AOzIH4fteLc8qYZbai by koherecoWatchdog@freeradical.zone
2022-10-27T07:50:07Z
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@stevenroose @sebastian @forgefriends @dachary @Bobo_PK @gitea @paul @paul Note as well that some research shows claims of â#proofOfWork destroying the planetâ to be overblownâ https://doi.org/10.1007/s12599-020-00656-x
(DIR) Post #AOzIH5TAh91tJNcxOa by koherecoWatchdog@freeradical.zone
2022-10-27T07:59:02Z
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@paul @gitea @Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends @sebastian @stevenroose W.r.t the criminal enterprises claimâ criminals use #cryptocurrency & also banks. We donât cancel banks just b/c criminals use them. We donât cancel cars just b/c drive-by shootings happen. More generally, we donât oppress legitimate users of a tool just because there are some bad actors. #Unbanked people should not be excluded from commerce on the basis that thieves exist.
(DIR) Post #AOzIlhnKlcuqrXerKa by koherecoWatchdog@freeradical.zone
2022-10-27T09:00:49Z
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@stevenroose @paul @gitea @Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends @sebastian I suspected that, but needed to respond to a blanket anti-everything-cryptocurrency sentiment (which is both anti-proof of work and anti-proof of stake), which gives a reckless treatment of people who are unbanked.
(DIR) Post #AOzIszVvHnYjqQzKwi by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-27T09:02:10Z
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@gitea @Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends I kinda don't like that we don't know who is the person behind this account. But I guess the account is not the front of Gitea Ltd and not of the #Gitea software project?
(DIR) Post #AOzJ3REd4gkwiRsfxI by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-27T09:04:04Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@gitea @Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriendsI think what bothers me (and I'm sure others too) the most is that all this was done seemingly without consulting the community. It just dropped as an announcement, with everything already settled. Ownership of trademark and domain transferred, no going back. Lunny should have consulted the community.#gitea
(DIR) Post #AOzJHS2csCV1GrwrOS by 0@mamot.fr
2022-10-27T09:06:34Z
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@stevenroose> can't we find solutions to that without using copyright law?Possibly. But do you need an optimal solution or just one that's good enough?@dachary @forgefriends
(DIR) Post #AOzJzs4HT4CYjVu4K8 by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-27T09:14:37Z
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@0 @dachary @forgefriends Intellectual property is one of the main pillars of capitalism and by many (myself included) believed to be one of the main causes of social and financial inequality. Like any "property", it is inherently violent and oppressive. So yes, it saddens me to see free-software people still embrace certain forms of intellectual property while the movement is entirely based on the opposition of other forms of it.
(DIR) Post #AOzKDTiqmUY7HSMs64 by Bobo_PK@chaos.social
2022-10-26T20:46:21Z
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@paul @dachary @gitea @forgefriends am not a lawyer and I assume most of your contributors and users are neither. To me the name of a project is part of the project. It is what people identify the project and the idea behind it. You might be legally right but it looks like a sell out of the community and its values.This opinion is based on those few replies I read here. I might be totally wrong
(DIR) Post #AOzXLKTcL5DeKIJhJo by 0@mamot.fr
2022-10-27T11:44:07Z
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@stevenrooseYou're reading way too much into it. #FOSS is about being able to read, modify and redistribute the source of the software you use, no more and no less.@dachary @forgefriends
(DIR) Post #AOzdoHxbNCzEe2X9qi by simon@en.osm.town
2022-10-27T12:56:36Z
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@stevenroose @dachary @forgefriends "yes" Depending on the territory there may be some rights for unregistered marks, but as a rule, if you are using a mark and it is important to you, you should better get it registered.
(DIR) Post #AP22xvZANKM1FyiWFU by humanetech@mastodon.social
2022-10-28T16:39:16Z
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@stevenroose @gitea @Bobo_PK @dachary @forgefriends There's an Open Letter now asking to undo this rushed activity and restore trust with the community..https://gitea-open-letter.coding.social/
(DIR) Post #AP3HMFpUHWHzZInynw by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2022-10-29T07:03:55.439493Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@stevenroose >Why is claiming copyright still so common in open source software projects?Since copyright is automatic whether you want it or not and "open source" really refers to certain kinds of copyright licenses: https://opensource.org/osdhttps://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.htmlI prefer the original and the best myself: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html>Why don't these projects give their trademarks and copy right to the public domain so that these kinds of hijacks can't happen?If you license a trademark freely, the trademark is no longer a trademark, as to keep a trademark, you must defend it. Putting things into the public domain is not valid in some countries and would allows people to just take the software and make proprietary software.>The code might be free to copy, but it's kinda tedious if you have to come up with a new name for the same community-driven project It's really not too hard to slap "-ng" onto the end of a projects name, as trademarks only refer to the exact word being trademarked.
(DIR) Post #AP3VxTVVn0D23v6VdI by lxo@gnusocial.net
2022-10-29T08:19:24Z
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> Why don't these projects give their trademarks and copy right to the public domain so that these kinds of hijacks can't happen?can you explain the reasoning behind the notion that, by granting everyone permission to hijack them, you'd prevent the hijacking?
(DIR) Post #AP3VxTvOEmuRMBDAy8 by stevenroose@x0f.org
2022-10-29T09:47:28Z
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@lxo Because they'd have no legal basis. A hijack is not someone using the trademark. It is someone somehow gaining legal ownership of the trademark that belongs to the community and then having legal means to prevent the community from keeping using the trademark.Sure a world without legally defended trademarks would come with its own challenges, but I believe technology offers plenty of peaceful means to establish names and identities. Like public keys, domain names, etc.