Post AOszPmGKPbLSGpI5S4 by pandora@social.tchncs.de
(DIR) More posts by pandora@social.tchncs.de
(DIR) Post #AOsD182EorX16dbNxI by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T22:53:27Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
Looking for suggestions for which instant messaging app to use.My requirement is for text communication and notification of such. Encryption would be nice. Preference for P2P.It is for my 'phone, so, needs to be on fdroid. I don't need conferencing, audio or video, as I have other solutions for those. I'd prefer some small, simple app.#FOSS #FLOSS
(DIR) Post #AOsDBHvctIZsgZM07E by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-23T22:55:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Jami is a good one, used to be called Ring back in the day. Definitely FOSS, e2ee, and P2P (I think)
(DIR) Post #AOsDehAY7qi3MlM9yK by VeniaSilente@fandom.ink
2022-10-23T23:00:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach The key question is who do you want to use it *with*, since they'll have to likely install the same.Signal has currently the best traction, but it's not on the *default* f-droid repos. Failing that I'm gonna second @thelovebug 's recommendation for Jami and add Session (Signal-but-simpler) to the mix.
(DIR) Post #AOsEEwD3gOqQREoOLQ by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:07:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thelovebug Thanks!I've been looking at Jami, but, the docs don't make any mention of IM.Looks like Presence Information requires use of SIP rather than Ring. I suppose that wouldn't be a big issue.Have you used Jami?
(DIR) Post #AOsEal4flR48H2IIcK by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-23T23:11:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach yes, I have Jami installed. Think of it like Skype, having both text and video. It supports SIP but has another mode, called Ring, which isn't SIP compatible.
(DIR) Post #AOsEdHUGE2E5NZSw9w by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:11:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@VeniaSilente Signal is out, I don't want to provide 'phone numbers, nor sync with contacts.The people I want to use it with are all friends IRL.What is Session?@thelovebug
(DIR) Post #AOsEk9ZI49N4qX5y8u by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-23T23:12:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I forgot Delta Chat. It uses email as the distribution engine for encrypted messaging. Takes a bit of getting your head around, but works well.
(DIR) Post #AOsFEko6B3Nf1nc55s by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:18:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thelovebug Another one to look at.Have you tried Briar?
(DIR) Post #AOsFQPrzqZ5nZFzu2y by VeniaSilente@fandom.ink
2022-10-23T23:20:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @thelovebug Session is a messenger that was originally built with similar protocols and UX to Signal but has sinc diverged in its networking approach. It does similar network routing to eg.: Tor Browser, for messaging if I understood correctly. Doesn't require a phone number.
(DIR) Post #AOsFTjaOzzQ7aLLlDs by jamesrichardson@mastodon.online
2022-10-23T23:21:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I'm a huge fan of Signal. Not sure if they have a F-droid repo but they offer a direct download from their website.
(DIR) Post #AOsFUzRZWghf3XooHw by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-23T23:21:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I'll check... we tested a load for #TuxJam
(DIR) Post #AOsFfwk9uE1Lrojk1o by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:23:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamesrichardson Not keen on supplying 'phone numbers, or syncing with contacts.
(DIR) Post #AOsFgWDnzzX1ttsPb6 by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-23T23:23:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach So yes I have, but I uninstalled it. It's reinstalled now.
(DIR) Post #AOsFnwK5LxsYsaLvFY by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:24:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@VeniaSilente Ah, found it:https://getsession.org/@thelovebug
(DIR) Post #AOsFqca7CxKsWN84HY by jamesrichardson@mastodon.online
2022-10-23T23:25:09Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I don't think you are required to sync contacts. And with them dropping SMS in the near future, I'm wondering if the phone number requirement will remain. What services allow signup without a phone number today?
(DIR) Post #AOsFyLENbJYx1fdyPA by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:26:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamesrichardson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_instant_messaging_clients#Privacy
(DIR) Post #AOsG8DdigDTKNUCqrw by jamesrichardson@mastodon.online
2022-10-23T23:28:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach so....not a lot of really viable options at this point. I do also use Element.
(DIR) Post #AOsG9dYRoXXj2cPsrw by Hyolobrika@gleasonator.com
2022-10-23T23:28:37.134174Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Session is a P2P messaging app using a crypto-token to incentivise nodes and provide Sybil-resistance. It apparently doesn’t have authentication though. Same with Briar.Btw, Signal may be removing the phone number requirement in the future.In the meantime, have you considered XMPP with OMEMO encryption?For the future, Berty.tech and Cwtch.im look promising.
(DIR) Post #AOsGfIkMiESLm25cTg by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:33:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamesrichardson No P2P text.
(DIR) Post #AOsGwPIjb3mX1aK2DI by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:36:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika Authentication wouldn't be a problem, this is for IRL friends.Which clients can use XMPP with OMEMO?@VeniaSilente @thelovebug
(DIR) Post #AOsHDAh79pdge4ifxo by Hyolobrika@gleasonator.com
2022-10-23T23:40:27.634305Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
>Which clients can use XMPP with OMEMO?Dino, Gajim (buggy) (Linux, GUI)Profanity (Linux, terminal)Conversations (Android)And more I don't remember the names of or don't know about.>Authentication wouldn't be a problem, this is for IRL friends.People would be able to impersonate you or your friends, if you're worried about that.
(DIR) Post #AOsHGge8oinCbz0Nay by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-23T23:40:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @VeniaSilente hmm, I can't recover my account on either of my devices... I may have to create a new one.
(DIR) Post #AOsHSfdoNf0Sy7Z6jg by Hyolobrika@gleasonator.com
2022-10-23T23:43:15.828441Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
XMPP isn't P2P either. It's federated like Matrix/Element.
(DIR) Post #AOsHxigB8PhXMuTgBM by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:48:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika This has to be for Android. All the users have 'phones.Good point about the authentication.@VeniaSilente @thelovebug
(DIR) Post #AOsI6irpnyZwYeDrou by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-23T23:50:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente I'm set up with Jami, Session, Briar, and XMPP if anyone wants to test with me?(Having said that, it's nearly 1am here in the UK... so compos mentis is somewhat limited)
(DIR) Post #AOsIEZR4ktXbcgRsDw by Hyolobrika@gleasonator.com
2022-10-23T23:51:55.436099Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
>Good point about the authentication.@inference told me about it.Can you post the evidence you showed me?
(DIR) Post #AOsIHrbPfV1Upor0eu by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-23T23:52:28Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente Authentication shouldn't be an issue if you only add users IRL. They would have to have their account compromised or keys stolen for bad actors to be able to impersonate your friends if you don't allow contact from randos. Present company excluded, obvs.
(DIR) Post #AOsIL4CTHqJYm5iOuW by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-23T23:53:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thelovebug Great offer. Can we do it another time? I'm about to hit the sack, too.@Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente
(DIR) Post #AOsIgCsGES7Zl3LGvA by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-23T23:56:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente Of course, any time!One thing I did notice with Briar, is that you can't run the same account on multiple devices... each device has it's own identity. I'm a huge cross-platform, cross-device fan.
(DIR) Post #AOsJNrrTiYwnKWnN1k by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-24T00:04:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thelovebug Great! Thanks!I'll install some of those, and use Fedi to make an IM contact.@Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente
(DIR) Post #AOsJUVPjZjYdjmz1yy by thelovebug@mastodon.me.uk
2022-10-24T00:05:58Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheachThat's a plan. Sleep well! @Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente
(DIR) Post #AOsJYGP5KGU0LFTIoq by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-24T00:06:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thelovebug You too.@Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente
(DIR) Post #AOsLmai4p9NrHcJZ4K by gemlog@tilde.zone
2022-10-24T00:31:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Curious what you end up with. I don't use messaging beyond email and masto. Wouldn't it be largely dictated by w/e your 'group' is using? Starting out fresh I think I'd go for something like briar or serval. When I think 'messaging', I think of text only though, not jitsi-like needs.
(DIR) Post #AOsN9TJEbbh8weAXXE by tfb@functional.cafe
2022-10-24T00:46:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Conversations is a very good XMPP client for Android with all modern niceties like presence and encryption etc.Briar is cool, but a bit rougher of an experience. It's also the only one I know that's sufficiently p2p to work during a network outage
(DIR) Post #AOsW2eJWtslAHuPKbY by controlfreak@hackers.town
2022-10-24T02:26:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach if its a smallish group that you are irl with, tox.chat is prolly a good call. p2p, e2ee, just need to convey your chat id in some other format to link up. pretty solid for voice and vid as well depending on client.session is blockchain with its own coin reward crap so avoid if that is not your vibe
(DIR) Post #AOsWHhsBwxrHfangfI by controlfreak@hackers.town
2022-10-24T02:29:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach if its a smallish group that you are irl with, tox.chat is prolly a good call. p2p, e2ee, just need to convey your chat id in some other format to link up.trifa is up to date tox app on fdroid. works great across mixed clients in my experience.session is blockchain with its own coin reward crap so avoid if that is not your vibe
(DIR) Post #AOsedwCKAf2w6LKRo8 by bobjonkman@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-10-24T04:02:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente @thelovebug I use Conversations (in F-droid) as my XMPP client. It has with OMEMO (although I haven't set it up with the account I currently use). I'm xmpp:bobjonkman@kwvoip.ca -- my self-hosted server went down years ago and I never re-installed Prosody on the replacement.
(DIR) Post #AOszPmGKPbLSGpI5S4 by pandora@social.tchncs.de
2022-10-24T07:55:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach This overview might help you with your decisionhttps://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix-en.html
(DIR) Post #AOt4UKcd6YvnlRiGlk by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-24T08:52:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gemlog They use WhatsApp. No-way I'm going anywhere near anything FB. They'll move over if I can find something simple them to use.This is for text only. I already use Jitsi for audio/video, and I'm happy with that. The app doesn't do IM.
(DIR) Post #AOt5bXRJwoWRUyQKNk by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-24T09:05:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tfb The Briar docs give a warning that battery & data usage might be heavy if connecting via the Internet.Are you a Briar user?
(DIR) Post #AOt5na6ZramfExSoG8 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-24T09:07:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@controlfreak So, tox.chat doesn't do notifications, is that right?
(DIR) Post #AOt6UyxPL7OUlmrz4S by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-24T09:15:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pandora Very comprehensive, thanks.Target group = Nerd😃
(DIR) Post #AOt7LGl6OntH2S2vzc by pandora@social.tchncs.de
2022-10-24T09:24:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach If you go by this matrix, target group = nerd will narrow your choice down to aTox and Briar. Or only Briar, if you go for what they recommend.🤓
(DIR) Post #AOt9ibSVnnsRo8bZlw by tfb@functional.cafe
2022-10-24T09:51:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I've used it a bit, and it works quite well in the no-network mode. I haven't had anyone who wanted to try using in normal situations, though. I can't say one way or another for the battery use over the internet
(DIR) Post #AOtHiRYpP1Huk5zhg0 by gemlog@tilde.zone
2022-10-24T11:20:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Then those two things I mentioned may fit the bill. I test things out in case I ever get any friends. I put serval on two phones and watched them easily find each other.
(DIR) Post #AOtJCwmbz0wyDbYBsW by eivind@mastodon.fjerland.no
2022-10-24T11:37:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach +1 for Briar. Has a lot of nice tricks aside from messaging.
(DIR) Post #AOtJeOjcARqqjBEpVI by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-24T11:42:29Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@eivind Briar is looking good, aside from:"Briar uses a lot of battery and data for connecting to your contacts via the Internet."The only trick I'm interested in is messaging. 😃
(DIR) Post #AOtKygdJQoKTz5Wq12 by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-10-24T11:57:12.220320Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente @thelovebug @fitheach Authentication is *for* people you know, not strangers.Authentication doesn't have to exist for strangers, or can simply be TOFU. Friends and such are who you *should* be authenticating.
(DIR) Post #AOtL2oX805Ude2bVuy by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-10-24T11:57:56.079456Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jamesrichardson @fitheach Signal confirmed they're working on usernames in the same blog post they mentioned dropping SMS support in.
(DIR) Post #AOte6Q46oQ5g2uSmiu by tayledras@mastodon.online
2022-10-24T03:50:36Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika @VeniaSilente @thelovebug @fitheach I regret not knowing what "Sybil Resistance" is.That was a good answer and recommendation.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_attack
(DIR) Post #AOwL5w8OmLxrYvPDxw by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-25T22:42:47Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Update:I've installed and evaluated Briar. Some thoughts:* Adding a contact (remote) is a bit more involved than other apps (more secure).* Messages via the Internet are not instantaneous (many hops incl Tor).* Very simple interface, no bells or whistles. I like this.* Recent versions of Briar support sending images (thank goodness).* Being super secure & private feels good.Huge thanks to @thelovebug for making the evaluation possible.#FOSS #FLOSS
(DIR) Post #AOwk78sTNpjAECd14y by themadcodger@dice.camp
2022-10-26T03:23:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @thelovebug Do you know anyone that uses Briar?
(DIR) Post #AOwpMZR9Pzh0iO1bGK by ghose@mastodon.gal
2022-10-26T04:21:56Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
thanks @fitheach for sharing your experience.We had tested #Briar about two years ago for **serverless** messaging. Easy and simple.Message delivery when correspondents weren't online **at the same time** was faulty, not just delayed, so we couldn't use it, but it worked fine and adding contacts wasn't that complicated if you have a motivated friend in the group (😅 me) Nowdays we use a selfhosted xmpp (with signal as backup, just in case)@thelovebug
(DIR) Post #AOx5ioZvOxgnJSl1mq by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-26T07:25:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ghose I can't comment on message delivery when sender and recipient are online intermittently. That would require much more testing.Adding contacts *remotely* is a little more complex if you want to do it securely. Some pre-existing mechanism is required. The Briar docs suggest Signal. 😃 @thelovebug
(DIR) Post #AOx5zA2fMtaQVwzmj2 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-10-26T07:28:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@themadcodger No, not yet. I do have a test profile. DM me if you to do a test.@thelovebug
(DIR) Post #APGtexA5C7gM1R4vk8 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-04T20:44:18Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
I'm in the midst of having a #Briar Party with my mates. I'll feedback on how this exercise fares.
(DIR) Post #APGzbshbuuEn33gB4S by eivind@mastodon.fjerland.no
2022-11-04T21:11:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Please do. I'm curious.
(DIR) Post #APH9YliQR7aU3HDNr6 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-04T23:42:28Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
That went well. There were 5 mates plus me. Luckily, everyone had Android 'phones. So, first stage was getting everyone to install the #Briar app. It was met with amazement that Briar could be installed locally. Next, we all added each other as contacts. Finally, we played with messaging, groups, forums, and blogs. So far, everyone was impressed.I sold everyone on the idea that Briar was secure. They were all Edward Snowden waanabes. 😃 To be continued...
(DIR) Post #APHAIXzZn9b2oJ49bM by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-04T23:50:43Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
That went well. There were 5 mates plus me. Luckily, everyone had Android 'phones. So, first stage was getting everyone to install the #Briar app. It was met with amazement that Briar could be installed locally. Next, we all added each other as contacts. Finally, we played with messaging, groups, forums, and blogs. So far, everyone was impressed.I sold everyone on the idea that Briar was secure. They were all Edward Snowden wannabes. 😃 To be continued...
(DIR) Post #APHBcRjsqmIpA8mK92 by Hyolobrika@gleasonator.com
2022-11-05T00:05:35.156008Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheachBriar doesn't have authentication either, allegedly.
(DIR) Post #APHCFlwxdlNd8heC0W by wrdwoose@mstdn.io
2022-11-05T00:12:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach nice! i wish a family party could be successfully 'snowdenish' like this, as i would switch in an instant.
(DIR) Post #APHwIZXgp8HPPz6G6C by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-05T08:48:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wrdwoose Last night was the fun part (some alcohol was also consumed). 😃 Next part is to see how we get on with daily usage.
(DIR) Post #APHyrEwdb4D1ZzQaCe by yngmar@social.tchncs.de
2022-11-05T00:11:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Woo, it's like the old days where people would verify (and later sign) each other's PGP keys.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_signing_party
(DIR) Post #APHyrG8j9bTRHm5kga by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-05T09:17:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yngmar Indeed. Only possible as we are a group of friends IRL, and we all live locally.
(DIR) Post #APHyyih5O9TBs7iiNk by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-05T09:18:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika We were all sitting next to each other. Good enough for me. 😃
(DIR) Post #API4c6RpVORoblBP2e by tfb@functional.cafe
2022-11-05T10:20:25Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I'm interested in how it goes, and quite jealous. I wish I could get friends to try out Briar with me, beyond just BT messaging with family
(DIR) Post #APIIi2ywhe7cxFOwHg by Hyolobrika@gleasonator.com
2022-11-05T12:59:43.944406Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach@inference, is that good enough?I assumed you meant that there's no way of knowing who you're talking to at all.
(DIR) Post #APINRDsNRgK5ad7r96 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-05T13:52:12Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Hyolobrika One can never be certain who you are communicating with over the Internet. however, if a contact is added locally then one can be 99% sure of their identity. Once that contact is stored, future comms, even over the Internet, has that same certaintity.@inference
(DIR) Post #APIRGmjntEBALJOUBE by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-05T14:35:38Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika PSUnless someone steals their 'phone, and forces your contact to reveal their password.@inference
(DIR) Post #APJ8XeMHVSyx0hUyIq by inference@plr.inferencium.net
2022-11-05T22:40:13.367406Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @Hyolobrika > Once that contact is stored, future comms, even over the Internet, has that same certaintity.Wrong. Someone discovering the password or session key is enough to log in and use that contact's account, number, whatever. Per-session keys generated per-login (not even per-device, which is too course-grained) makes it borderline impossible to spoof without triggering a security exception.
(DIR) Post #APKn0FpBzYQEdvAxTk by aaronwinstonsmith@mastodon.bida.im
2022-11-06T17:38:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach follow, i use element, i think It Is based on the Matrix protocol
(DIR) Post #APKpXrB0L6cvx5WqX2 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-06T18:17:03Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@aaronwinstonsmith I think Element is a Matrix client:https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix-en.html
(DIR) Post #APp75DFQItaS7jVskC by stannard@mastodon.org.uk
2022-11-21T08:54:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I tried briar a while ago, Perhaps a year....ish.It was like buying the first fax machine.No-one to send anything to.Thought the concept was great ,!Now I see something called "Berty". Looking similar.What sort of distance were you from each other ?
(DIR) Post #APqH8RPVIVBncIMmFk by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-21T22:22:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stannard The group of us all live within a 10 mile radius. We all agreed to get the "fax machine" at the same time.
(DIR) Post #APr1qXz2obq8dVxYY4 by stannard@mastodon.org.uk
2022-11-22T07:05:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach #briarJust re installed and read the idiots guide.I can see some uses in controlled environments, but as a general messaging app, Not convinced.Although it certainly ticks all the privacy boxes.
(DIR) Post #APr9XTCDBskrv2X5mK by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-22T08:31:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stannard What's missing?We just needed something akin to SMS. The only issue we (the Briar group) have is the requirement for both parties to always be online at the same time.
(DIR) Post #APrcC8fdCqGyqkTTCi by stannard@mastodon.org.uk
2022-11-22T13:52:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach All having to be online at the same time seems to defeat the object a bit.Looked at https://berty.techMixed reviews, but the fact I need to get it from google play put me off even trying it.
(DIR) Post #APrczpNlC3ebVWoCbA by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-22T14:01:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@stannard That's P2P, for you.I'm toying with the idea of a self-hosted, encrypted XMPP accessed via Tor.
(DIR) Post #APreTR9HxP2CzTiqci by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-22T14:18:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@timttmy Thanks.Are you a user?I note that Snikket are on Fedi:https://fosstodon.org/@snikket_imSeems Snikket is only available as a Docker image. 🙄 @stannard
(DIR) Post #APrfB26aQhws3qFMBM by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-11-22T14:25:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@timttmy Clearly, you must be happy with Snikket.@stannard
(DIR) Post #APrsf7zsO5oUQRmxdo by stannard@mastodon.org.uk
2022-11-22T16:56:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @timttmy Reading up on Jami ,Looks interesting.
(DIR) Post #ASGaphumNYgMRZr9HM by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-02T10:49:34Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
I'm afraid the Briar experiment hasn't been successful, for us. The requirement for all interested parties to be concurrently online has been a problem.I'm considering testing Matrix with Element, next. Any thoughts or recommendations?A free server would be good, too. 😃 #FOSS #FLOSS
(DIR) Post #ASGrS08afqv5EPb9IO by Magess@fandom.ink
2023-02-02T13:55:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach it's not something that fits your needs now, but it might be worth keeping an eye on cabal.chat
(DIR) Post #ASGsIl0tdTKtfm9gvo by garry@mstdn.social
2023-02-02T14:04:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I use matrix.org
(DIR) Post #ASHBBkDE78RWI3IBCD by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-02T17:36:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Magess Are you a user?
(DIR) Post #ASHBFCKk15boNKSCcS by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-02T17:37:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@garry Thanks!Heading there now.
(DIR) Post #ASHC3CDUj1mIUYuBiC by orbifx@mastodon.social
2023-02-02T17:29:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach #DeltaChat, #email based chatting.
(DIR) Post #ASHDCsB0BmKbBjuwoC by Magess@fandom.ink
2023-02-02T17:40:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach No, I just came across it recently and installed the desktop app to take a peek. it sounded like the sort of thing you were interested in with Briar. No idea if they'll end up doing it any better though
(DIR) Post #ASHDM0g5wxVgA4olqy by Magess@fandom.ink
2023-02-02T17:41:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I'm currently filing it in the same place as Scuttlebutt. Could be interesting, but isn't developed enough yet for real use
(DIR) Post #ASHDPu4uQhYaqpHUUS by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-02T18:01:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Magess A quick perusal suggests it has an offline mode, where messages are stored until the next connection. That is the missing part with Briar (for us).
(DIR) Post #ASHLGrVNQUgztirQo4 by devSJR@fosstodon.org
2023-02-02T18:57:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheachI am in team #deltachat . However, what about #meshenger?https://github.com/meshenger-app/meshenger-android
(DIR) Post #ASOr33f1zZHkBRYdLE by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-06T10:29:01Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
After initial testing I'm finding Element/Matrix to be very feature rich, slick interface and great performance.Looking great, so far.
(DIR) Post #ASOs51lY6l1iq96q7U by withaveeay@mastodon.scot
2023-02-06T10:40:28Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@fitheach Sorry - late to your thread. And our reasoning may be different to yours.We've stuck with xmpp using Conversations (from f-droid) and omemo encryption.The main reason is it is much easier to self-host using prosody. The last time I checked, there was really only one matrix server, which I found clunky, hard to configure and resource hungry.We run clients on the laptops (gajim), phones and tablets, and all see the same messages.Clients are trouble free, with the ease of self-hosting
(DIR) Post #ASOvFG9dlZ7cDvwrjc by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-06T11:15:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@withaveeay Not late to the thread, at all. I posted to the thread this morning. I often keep threads going over extended periods, if they are about the same topic. Anyway, I welcome comments at any time.Thanks for the Prosody recommendation. My IM req is for personal use. I'm quite happy to use matrix.org (for the time being). I'm busy trying to de-clutter my server requirements. 😃 I've no idea about the matrix reqs, but, matrix.org is lightening fast (probably famous last words).
(DIR) Post #ASOxeqBl83GV86GVai by potato_lisper@fosstodon.org
2023-02-06T11:42:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @withaveeay I went the same way. Matrix is nice, but hard to setup on your own server. Prosody was way easier. Required a bit of fiddling to get files to work properly, but when I sorted that out it works nicely. Even audio/video calling works.My setup is Prosody on a server, and Conversation on mobile and Gajim on desktop. There are clients for iOS if that is requirement too.PS. You can use your server as a bridge to other networks (ex. IRC)
(DIR) Post #ASOzWnDQUzB1V5Kqm0 by tfb@functional.cafe
2023-02-06T12:02:56Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach That's too bad that Briar didn't work out for you, but good to hear your experience
(DIR) Post #ASP26wtaBbXHr6QDTM by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-02-06T12:33:02.323955Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I've been using matrix for a few years and I quite like it. Element is easy for people to adopt, and for me the server administration has been largely painless. I hear larger servers with a lot of users might get a bit more hungry for resources, but this has never been my experience and it sounds like you have 10 people your considering hosting so I'd expect about the same.You can always set up bridges for xmpp or other services down the line if you want to talk to people outside of the matrix network.
(DIR) Post #ASP2E3wgNB39kQGQ1w by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-02-06T12:34:20.070718Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I have found the desktop element app on Linux to be a bit buggy as of late, but the web interface is fine and there are other applications that speak matrix protocol.
(DIR) Post #ASP2QHtMLWmYTcXT5U by thatguyoverthere@shitposter.club
2023-02-06T12:36:32.138640Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach one problem people might run into is understanding what a home server is. If you arrange an element sign in party like you did with briar you can probably help answer questions, and all of you can verify each other's devices which is something I have not been able to do with all of my users
(DIR) Post #ASP3vr6jZ5KicyPYoa by yngmar@social.tchncs.de
2023-02-06T12:53:13Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach "Slick interface" always makes me think of dead seabirds covered in oil slick. Which is probably an appropriate analogy for most user interfaces these days.
(DIR) Post #ASPedqTUsMEDkxKkue by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-06T19:44:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tfb At any time one time, one or more of us wouldn't be online (no WiFi or mobile data). Consequently, the P2P nature of Briar meant some of us wouldn't receive the communications. Crucial things like what time to be at the pub would be missed.
(DIR) Post #ASPernmBho9BRPjOdc by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-06T19:47:02Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@thatguyoverthere There are 6 in our group. The combination of matrix.org plus Element is working well so far. Element is very easy to use.
(DIR) Post #ASPf110Rszph4znLdo by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-06T19:48:43Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@thatguyoverthere We all live within a 10 mile radius. Support sessions will be conducted at the pub.
(DIR) Post #ASPf9zI3dSHeMcJGHQ by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-06T19:50:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@yngmar Yes, I have that association, too. Although, first mental image is of a Teddy Boy with slicked back hair (also oily).
(DIR) Post #ASQgbd24HGHqYKXDDk by tfb@functional.cafe
2023-02-07T07:41:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Not having any accomodations for store-and-forward from other members of a group chat seems like a problem. With one-on-one it's reasonable enough to juggle that, but I can see that makes group chats untenable
(DIR) Post #ASQy1nRTtX17aXU8bA by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-07T10:56:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tfb Once you've had multiple chats it's impossible to remember who has seen what (unless one achieves 100% attendance rates, which never happens).
(DIR) Post #ASQz1BeAW6cmK2h0mO by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-07T11:07:43Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
My "users" are also liking Element/Matrix, the feature set is amazing, and everything seems to work.The way Element handles encryption, and especially the authentication of new devices, is exemplary.The users are also saying that Element is the best messenger (and audio/video) they've used. Beats all the best known ones, hands down.The Web UI and 'phone app run smoothly, and don't seem to be resource hungry.I think this is going to be a keeper.
(DIR) Post #ASQzGDl8wdyvDZ7k2q by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-02-07T11:09:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach we switched to Matrix (Synapse + Element) after 4-5 years using Rocket.Chat (both self-hosted) and yeah, although R.C was great, Matrix is better.
(DIR) Post #ASQzereaGqe5tho4xc by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-07T11:14:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lightweight What made you switch?Switching would seem a lot of work without compelling reasons.
(DIR) Post #ASQzxmX1XQZfVwI6Wu by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-02-07T11:17:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach we're sticklers for #FOSS and open standards support at our org (https://oerfoundation.org) and I was unhappy with the move to an 'open core' model by the Rocket.Chat team... so decided (in the midst of implementing a bunch of self-hosted Fediverse apps) to finally have a crack at hosting a Synapse server (previously seemed like a LOT of work). It's more involved than R.C but no longer 'too hard' thanks to Docker. And we really prefer it. And the mobile app is way better.
(DIR) Post #ASR0JBviIrnuMn33kO by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-07T11:22:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@lightweight Ah, OK. That explains it. It's difficult to keep up with all those developments.
(DIR) Post #ASR0V5Ef1Ds94ya66K by tfb@functional.cafe
2023-02-07T11:24:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach right, that's the sort of job a computer is good at
(DIR) Post #ASR0XrlDZg7A9l8WjA by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-02-07T11:24:24Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Delta Chat?
(DIR) Post #ASR0ZvXUUrBoSFhN6O by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-07T11:25:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tfb Exactly, as demonstrated by Element.
(DIR) Post #ASR0l8V2eNBfputjH6 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-07T11:27:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@8petros Does it require the use of email?
(DIR) Post #ASR1CorjF6x53Ci4sS by tfb@functional.cafe
2023-02-07T11:32:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Matrix and XMPP both. But there's no reason a P2P chat like Briar couldn't do the same for group chats, having members who were online store and forward messages for those who weren't online. Essentially automating the process of 'hey, you missed this message: ...'It's disappointing that Briar doesn't do that
(DIR) Post #ASR1MHSWIoZYL0Qja4 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-07T11:33:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tfb Yup, that would be good.
(DIR) Post #ASR1MZFi9B1PWUZl7A by 8petros@petroskowo.pl
2023-02-07T11:33:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Yes. It is essentially a heavily encrypted, IM looking mail client.
(DIR) Post #ASR1fbScA4TjsDgj3I by tfb@functional.cafe
2023-02-07T11:37:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I'd even say it's a minimum to make group chats a feature
(DIR) Post #ASR6Gx6h2jDjXXV29I by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-02-07T12:28:39.444094Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Hyolobrika @fitheach Comparing with other IMs, Briar is quite good at authenticating contacts - it clearly displays level of trust for each user, depending whether they were added in person or remotely, as in the former case there’s a direct key exchange through QR code scan. I’ve seen only Threema doing it in such a nice way. In Signal a contact can be verified (QR scan) or unverified (added by phone number) but it’s not represented very prominently in user interface. Also in Briar you need to authenticate yourself to open the application, which to some extent prevents retrieval of chat contents from a running stolen phone. In Signal it’s only possible in forks (Molly).
(DIR) Post #ASbFKqE9XN0keqPNdw by rohden@fe.disroot.org
2023-02-11T21:03:06.399846Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach They have a list of recommended e-mail providers https://delta.chat/en/2022-01-16-dapsi2blogpostAlternatively, setting up own mail servers is also an option, it seems: https://delta.chat/en/2023-01-27-upcoming-mail-server-workshops
(DIR) Post #ASbFKqidi1OiBOfjA8 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-02-12T09:57:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rohden Thanks for the info.
(DIR) Post #ATnv5wm34L90jiAtBg by fitheach@mstdn.io
2023-03-20T10:32:51Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
I quite often use Element/Matrix both on my 'phone and on my home-based laptop (which is on 24/7). The integration between the two works flawlessly. If I read a message via the laptop, the notification is removed from my 'phone. Cool!However, there is one small downside. If I leave a particular person/room open on the laptop, I won't receive notifications on my 'phone, as the system *thinks* I've seen the message. Not a big issue, just need to be aware.