Post AOnxeEm3K2ZJOwon7w by jollyrogue@social.tulsa.ok.us
(DIR) More posts by jollyrogue@social.tulsa.ok.us
(DIR) Post #AOntrF8yrJfaUpUN2e by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-21T20:59:55Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
How big of a red flag is a code of conduct when you're looking for a software project to contribute to? Just cringe, or a showstopper?#opensource #linux #javascript #hacktoberfest
(DIR) Post #AOnu0Ypp19mYAmyEQS by matneyx@mastodon.social
2022-10-21T21:01:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear I'm going to need an example... I love when a project has established conventions and patterns, and have them documented.
(DIR) Post #AOnu4FUSsjlZKrjuQi by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-21T21:02:16Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@matneyx That sounds more like plain good old documentation
(DIR) Post #AOnuLYOXqfaYtEDpfk by matneyx@mastodon.social
2022-10-21T21:05:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear Yeah, probably. I think I've been involved in too many un- or poorly-documented projects to know the difference.😅
(DIR) Post #AOnxeEm3K2ZJOwon7w by jollyrogue@social.tulsa.ok.us
2022-10-21T21:42:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear @matneyx Yep. A CoC is documentation about the expectations of how people in a community should act, and what is, and is not, acceptable behavior. 🙂
(DIR) Post #AOnxzrPkqyWzK7hQ36 by jollyrogue@social.tulsa.ok.us
2022-10-21T21:45:59Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear A lack of a CoC is a giant red flag and a hard pass.Another red flag is the official accounts of a project stating CoCs are big red flags.I’ll show myself out. ✌🏽
(DIR) Post #AOnyGXxWRPvVuHRzEm by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-21T21:49:19Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@jollyrogue CoC is a sign that a project has been taken over by social activists
(DIR) Post #AOo1Nx85YYDlrRcEyW by vwbusguy@mastodon.online
2022-10-21T22:07:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jollyrogue @nuclear Indeed, it is. It's moments like these that I appreciate when people reveal what they're about.
(DIR) Post #AOo1NxbVn9kzKhNjpw by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-21T22:23:47Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@vwbusguy @jollyrogue Don't let the door hit you!
(DIR) Post #AOo4kc70AHI5CPbXt2 by Archivist@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-21T23:02:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear @jollyrogueWhat you consider a red flag is the bare minimum required by law in my country in most cases. What most countries out of the US can't tolerate is intolerance, and you are showing a clear sign that hate speech is OK with you. I will see myself out too
(DIR) Post #AOo5u5c3wxxXFtDPyi by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-21T23:14:54Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Archivist @jollyrogue Hysterical and exaggerated overreaction
(DIR) Post #AOo64H3AHXZFcfkTKK by Archivist@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-21T23:16:44Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear @jollyrogue I do not associate with people that prone free speech over a friendly and welcoming environment
(DIR) Post #AOqCYb4zMiy8TIMchk by vwbusguy@mastodon.online
2022-10-22T23:38:47Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear @jollyrogue Amazing.
(DIR) Post #AOvD0Xb7aKGHDvnT3g by Mek101@mstdn.io
2022-10-25T09:37:28Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear Most CoCs I've seen are red flags for toxicity, since they often include strict tone policing not only inside the project itself but also outside of it, and require little to no verification, making it extra-easy to abuse them or leverage them in personal disputes.I'm fine with them if they're a mix of "don't be a dick" and "behave like an adult"
(DIR) Post #AOvD10GD19lU7TEfzM by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2022-10-25T09:37:30.653Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear@mstdn.io Just cringe, but definitely not as cringe as a project which hosts itself on Github and links to a Discord chat in their readme. 🤣
(DIR) Post #AOvD8KCLHwQlywuzzc by Mek101@mstdn.io
2022-10-25T09:38:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Archivist @nuclear @jollyrogue Which country are you talking about?
(DIR) Post #AOvDFYItF5rVkzQYOe by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-10-25T09:40:10.635646Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear i see it as a challenge and try to subtly provoke other members to break it
(DIR) Post #AOvDPiyUQHTNkRjfhg by SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo
2022-10-25T09:41:58.643Z
5 likes, 2 repeats
@nuclear@mstdn.io @jollyrogue@social.tulsa.ok.usGithub is a sign that a project is under Microsoft's terms of service's control.Discord is a sign that a project is under Chinese surveillance.Electron is a sign that a project's runtime binary is infested with a Google rootkit.
(DIR) Post #AOvDWw8BuDpgZyiENs by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-10-25T09:43:18.609528Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear that said, sqlite code of conduct is just fine :blobcatcomfyuwu:
(DIR) Post #AOvEs9kAacbEpj9uKW by mia@movsw.0x0.st
2022-10-25T09:54:54.402Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@nuclear@mstdn.io @jollyrogue@social.tulsa.ok.us maybe it’s a pointless culture war thing but turns out it’s also a good filter because people wo seem strangely offended by its mere presence tend not to care much for basic netiquette or teamplay.
(DIR) Post #AOvEsUkaUGPZz6W2Oe by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-25T09:58:23Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@SuperDicq Filtered by the industry standard websites lol
(DIR) Post #AOvF2kXSdpoNqZGXEe by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-25T10:00:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@SuperDicq Meds now
(DIR) Post #AOvFInnUIIqKaPPsrA by fristi@akkos.fritu.re
2022-10-25T10:03:12.703629Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear it's not as simple as that.Not all projects need a CoC. I would argue that the smaller the project is, the less it needs one. It also depends on if the project is actually open to community contribution or not. This does not always have to be the case, as it is not a requirement of any open source license.However, large community-developed projects can certainly profit from a CoC, but a CoC is just a simple agreement on how to work together. The problem I see is that some adopt it as some sort of harsh lawbook, detailing and forcing people to act in ways outside of their comfort zones or even in ways to force particular opinions and ideologies on others. Don't agree? You're out. Good luck not getting canceled on the way out. Such CoCs can be as big a red flag as a project not having one.Therefore I would look at the CoC and what it says. A CoC should be short but clear on what's acceptable and not, but also leave room for a little interpretation and flexibility when needed. And most importantly, a CoC needs to be neutral. It's about laying out how to effectively work together *despite cultural, ideological and other opinionated differences*, not how to force everyone under the same banner against their wishes. Projects should not be led by ideology or politics, but by practical need. Therefore, the more neutral a CoC, the better it is.
(DIR) Post #AOvHMV12GUp5P3dzd2 by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-25T10:26:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@owl Damn that's pretty crazy because I never needed a phone number for Discord
(DIR) Post #AOvJCRyqtXyZ0BxVaq by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-10-25T10:46:51.967Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mia@movsw.0x0.st @nuclear@mstdn.io @jollyrogue@social.tulsa.ok.us Neither do the people starting drama to have one incorporated. Perhaps the people who are "offended by its presence" just don't want to deal with those people in general.
(DIR) Post #AOvJHqylNVxJyvUfSq by tyil@fedi.tyil.nl
2022-10-25T10:47:51.807Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear@mstdn.io Instant showstopper. I don't want to get yelled at for using a word that they've found to be offensive just a few hours ago.
(DIR) Post #AOvS2o54lpyGEkLXOq by pixelherodev@fosstodon.org
2022-10-25T12:25:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear > Other: it has literally no effect.I'm happy to contribute to projects that have them, and I'm just as happy to contribute to projects that don't.As long as the people running a project don't treat me (or other people) like garbage, I'm literally never going to think about whether they have a CoC.If they treat me like garbage and don't have a CoC, I'll leave the project.If they treat me like garbage and *do* have a CoC, which they're ignoring, I'll... leave the project.
(DIR) Post #AOvSPqfdJBhoveQtdY by pixelherodev@fosstodon.org
2022-10-25T12:30:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear @SuperDicq Plenty of engineering industry standards are flat-out wrong. You're literally arguing that "Everyone else is doing it, so we are too." Everyone else is also wrong.I don't care whether a project has a CoC, but I not only won't *contribute* to projects that use Discord, or Electron, I won't *use* them. Ever.Hosting on Github is also really bad, but not enough to stop me from using it. (It is enough to stop me from contributing, though; my Github account is for work only.)
(DIR) Post #AOvT7rhQqNfWrVGMoy by pixelherodev@fosstodon.org
2022-10-25T12:38:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear Every community has a code of conduct. Most don't need to write it down. If you come in to the chat room for basically any project and start tossing insults at the maintainers, you're going to be banned. Nobody needs a CoC to tell you that, because it's just obvious.Any time people form a community, they'll determine their own norms. The norms are just a function of the people and their interactions.What matters is the people, not the rules.
(DIR) Post #AOvU66k42s2utGDhyK by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-25T12:48:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixelherodev Come to our chatroom and I promise you we won't ban you just for tossing insults
(DIR) Post #AOvUlj0EhHyNQXd3NA by pixelherodev@fosstodon.org
2022-10-25T12:56:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear Sorry, but you use Discord. I patently refuse to use it.(I do, actually, have an account, but with great reluctance, and it's really for DnD scheduling only. I have no interest in joining any other guilds [as the user-facing bits lie, "servers"])Also, no offence, but... your project is built on Electron. Embedding an entire copy of Google Chrome and Node.JS, both technologies I consciously avoid, is not a great way to get positive attention from me.
(DIR) Post #AOvYKr1LB96AI9aWWG by Lonsfor@mastodon.social
2022-10-25T13:36:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear
(DIR) Post #AOzCbDIug08dg12iaO by 101101000@qoto.org
2022-10-27T07:51:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear> How big of a red flag is a code of conductContributing to a project as opposed to merely using it?Usually a sign that the project either attracts or is run by immature people or people who'd rather push their own worldviews onto others than content themselves with writing good code.Originally, codes of conduct were called #nettiquete and served to guide newcomers to the online world and show them how to contribute constructively in a new and unfamiliar environment.Lately, “codes of conduct” appears to have come to refer to fashion statements thinly disguised as moralising / pseudopolitical messages and can be enough of an annoyance to become disruptive.
(DIR) Post #AOzDTAvBkdINvNg19E by 101101000@qoto.org
2022-10-27T08:01:29Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Archivist> What you consider a red flag is the bare minimum required by law in my country in most cases.Which country would that be and which piece of legislation would require a document titled “code of conduct”, please?> What most countries out of the US can't tolerate is intolerance, and you are showing a clear sign that hate speech is OK with you. I will see myself out tooThat's a pretty, err, intolerant statement (with a #xenophobic tinge to boot). 🤡#irony, #coppery, etc. 😛@nuclear @jollyrogue
(DIR) Post #AOzPrCyUy1j2h1S2LI by Archivist@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-27T10:20:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@101101000 @nuclear @jollyrogue I do not mean that it mandates a code of conduct. I mean that it mandates what is generally present in a code of conduct: - prohibition of hate speech- prohibition of discrimination due to sexual orientation, religion, or elements of the nature of the person (gender, ethnicity...)- sexual harassment or improper sexual conduct in an environment potentially having minors
(DIR) Post #AOzQQcCv92Ub5O5344 by Archivist@social.linux.pizza
2022-10-27T10:26:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@101101000 Also xenophobia is when you promote or display hate towards people, not towards a legal system@nuclear @jollyrogue
(DIR) Post #AP1RpiNVpMCjjaUEim by pixelherodev@fosstodon.org
2022-10-25T13:00:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear Also, I'm willing to bet that I can think of something to say in your chat that would get you to ban me. Lots of people claim to be free speech extremists (hell, *I* used to call myself one), but *nobody* I've met ever, *ever* sticks to it.Typically, just self-botting with a markov chain trained on political stances tends to work, though it's important to tailor the markov chain to the audience (left-wing ideas if the admins are right-wing and vice versa).
(DIR) Post #AP1Rpin2IScZ0kQcVM by nuclear@mstdn.io
2022-10-28T09:51:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@pixelherodev Is it supposed to be some kind of a gotcha that you're gonna get yourself banned if you spam meaningless text with a script? I promise you, you'd rather ragequit yourself first if you engaged in regular discussion. And hey, if you sperg out upon seeing discord we also use matrix.
(DIR) Post #AP5MUTqIx8olQuqhjE by bonifartius@qoto.org
2022-10-30T07:10:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vwbusguy @jollyrogue @nuclear "uninstall proof". this is so childish it could be right off of twitter. and i don't even know what nuclear is xD
(DIR) Post #AP5MqkanMFyfkjDJmi by gabriel@mstdn.starnix.network
2022-10-30T07:14:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear Administrative bloat.
(DIR) Post #AP5NbMRUxrjESn5hWi by bonifartius@qoto.org
2022-10-30T07:23:18Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tyil @mia @jollyrogue @nuclear yes, coc is a red flag because of the people who like it, not the contents. contents are a given for sane people, and you don't need a coc to swing the banhammer or to fork stuff for that matter.
(DIR) Post #AP5SczXDbbVJlZMaMy by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2022-10-30T08:19:37.241129Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nuclear depends on what is in the code of conduct.
(DIR) Post #AP65scq1egm6DfbdGy by CapitalB@noagendasocial.com
2022-10-30T15:39:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Archivist @nuclear @jollyrogue Can you cite legislation? I am interested.