Post ANvD4irR5ccSm2ut7I by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
(DIR) More posts by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
(DIR) Post #ANu1ntZ8k6VoOjAkaG by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
2022-09-24T20:34:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I wonder a hidden reason a lot of EU/European nations appear to be baulking on giving refugee status to those attempting to escape conscription in RU, is that it was (or still is!) a thing in *many* EU nations well into the 21st century, and they don't want to set a wider precedent (particularly if/when things escalate and these countries want to implement their domestic conscription procedures?)
(DIR) Post #ANu1ntzNAZUni5RhTM by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-09-24T22:05:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vfrmedia Conscription hasn't been a "thing" in Europe since WWII, has it? Many countries have had national service, but, that is quite different. I would define conscription as being for active (fighting) service.
(DIR) Post #ANv3GqGoMvlzgdvTcm by OldRedSun@dragon.style
2022-09-25T09:56:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @vfrmedia any sort of draft or compulsorary service is conscription, wouldn't surprise me if general punishment of those fleeing the use of themselves as soldiers is common in most of europe....And as an anarchist, I'ld argue that it's the general populances against the governments, in war times, no matter the location. They have more to gain from using a war to crush internal dissent, than ending it. Even if it's absolutely neccesary to fight it to prevent genocide.
(DIR) Post #ANvD4irR5ccSm2ut7I by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
2022-09-25T10:12:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@OldRedSun @fitheach Conscription existed in lots of countries post WW II (including the UK, up until 1963). It was just that there was less /war/ in Europe post 1945, so no combat zones to go to!. UK conscripts were however sent away to prop up the remains of the British Empire well into the 1960s. Many countries do have a scheme for those who don't want to carry out military duties, but its still a form of forced labour for the public services/govt..
(DIR) Post #ANvD4jJRPV1MAu1Flg by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-09-25T11:46:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vfrmedia @OldRedSun We'll need to agree to disagree on the definitions of national service and conscription. According to my definitions, I agree with one, and not the other. I'll leave it to you to guess which ones.I've spoken to people that have done UK national service. They spent most of their time square bashing and peeling spuds. The unstated objective of NS was to inculcate a compliant populace.What might happen in Russia is likely very different.
(DIR) Post #ANvHBC0U2RH2irUO7E by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-09-25T12:32:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@clacke The process and organisation is the same. However, the outcomes for the conscripted were quite different. Perhaps the Swedish view is different as the country wasn't a participant in WWI or WWIIIn the UK, during both WWs, the conscripted were given a few weeks training, and then off to the front (or the equivalents for navy & air force).@vfrmedia
(DIR) Post #ANvHVPH8Pq6VfLusWu by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
2022-09-25T12:35:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @OldRedSun unfortunately my parents are no longer with us, or I could have asked them how many UK troops did get sent to Malaya (my uncles are too young to remember) but there definitely were some sent there as part of UK National Service..Mu uncles and cousins did NS in independent Malaysia, but there wasn't any war or security threats so they did stuff like helping built a hut in the kampung, and even playing the pipes.
(DIR) Post #ANvI3urxSNW1UyazOS by vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de
2022-09-25T12:41:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @OldRedSun unfortunately my parents are no longer with us, or I could have asked them how many UK troops did get sent to Malaya (my uncles are too young to remember) but there definitely were some sent there as part of UK National Service..My uncles and cousins did NS in independent Malaysia, but there wasn't any war or security threats so they did stuff like helping built a hut in the kampung, and even playing the pipes.
(DIR) Post #ANvL0LAS2QVplWESRM by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-09-25T13:14:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@vfrmedia Yup, the UK sent NS troops to Malaya (and many other countries, including Korea & Cyprus). I'm not defending those actions. There hasn't been a decade without UK involvement in a war somewhere since WWII. However, the scale and intent of NS was quite different from wartime conscription. Between 1947 (start of NS) and 1963 (end) a total of 395 NS troops were killed. 384,000 soldiers were killed in WWII, the vast majority were conscripts.@OldRedSun
(DIR) Post #ANvNTtH0VqNFqgW7Mm by tfb@functional.cafe
2022-09-25T13:42:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @clacke @vfrmedia But the OP's point stands though doesn't it? From what I read, they're calling up people who already did their military service, to send them to an active front. I don't think France or Germany want that to be a reason to give someone asylum
(DIR) Post #ANvNzYEOHZf3r1OFJw by gemlog@tilde.zone
2022-09-25T13:48:26Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Russia vows to fix mistakes after old, sick people mobilised https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/russia-mobilisation-old-sick-ukraine-invasion-war-vladimir-putin-2964236@vfrmedia @OldRedSun
(DIR) Post #ANxGVQUICIq7mtR6R6 by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-09-26T11:33:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tfb I can't say if that might be a factor. However, I think, that providing asylum isn't always universally popular.Providing it for Russians, considering the current war, would be even less popular.@clacke @vfrmedia
(DIR) Post #ANxfPLzuTa3uyjQTtw by edavies@mastodon.scot
2022-09-26T16:12:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach I don't see the distinction between conscription and national service. People on national service can be required to act as combatants from the Geneva convention point of view. I've met two people who were conscripted national servicemen who saw “action” in the Suez crisis.(One was a bit comic/sad - lecturer at college shot a donkey at night while guarding Akrotiri. The other was a bit more active, he parachuted into Egypt.)@vfrmedia
(DIR) Post #ANxsXlNVIJzZPpnnMW by michiel@social.tchncs.de
2022-09-26T18:40:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach @vfrmedia Many West-European countries spent the decades after WWII keeping the scraps of their former colonial empires together in very real wars.Britain is, I think, the only country that stopped the draft before the end of the cold war, let alone the year 2000.
(DIR) Post #ANzAe4JzljVuEpHG9g by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-09-27T09:37:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@edavies Have a look at my other replies on this thread.@vfrmedia
(DIR) Post #ANzAxjic50Vw8BAdGa by edavies@mastodon.scot
2022-09-26T16:16:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach One thing to be said for Russian conscription over British post-WWII conscription is that in theory Russian conscripts can't be ordered to serve abroad.Didn't stop conscripts getting beaten up to get them to sign on as “contract” soldiers who can be. But, I imagine it's probably a reason they're having these sham referendums in the occupied parts of Ukraine, so Putin can declare them Russia and send conscripts there.@vfrmedia
(DIR) Post #ANzAxk9YSq45Tjm9GC by fitheach@mstdn.io
2022-09-27T09:41:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@edavies Yeah, I think it is part of Putin's strategy of including Crimea and Donbas as part of Russia. He can then argue that he is defending Russia/Russians.The Ukrainians don't agree.@vfrmedia
(DIR) Post #ANzFmqjCB75uSJ4SMi by edavies@mastodon.scot
2022-09-27T10:35:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@fitheach Yes, I'm disagreeing with your other replies. Like the others here I'm arguing there's no distinction between conscription and compulsory national service. See for example the second sentence of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_service :“Conscription is mandatory national service.”which doesn't seem to be controversial on the Talk page. There's some more nuance further down on the specific UK legal term National Service but the basic point stands.@vfrmedia