Post ANlAPA3fRCqjTP5oLQ by 2020chan@poa.st
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(DIR) Post #ANPQgDc2yTqGx290dM by _Trollcow_@poa.st
2022-09-08T04:58:17.605971Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
Cyber War - A cringe rantWith the current recent events considered, I have come to the conclusion that we need to have a different perspective on cyber war.I know that term is cringe, but I do not have a replacement for it, so it’s going to stay.I am pretty sure I’ve already made my views regarding Kiwi Farms & Josh abundantly clear, however, what I haven’t made clear is the fact that I consider, overall, this cyber war, and the previous ones, to be collectively damaging to everybody, and in a way, from a birds eye perspective, I have a baseline of sympathy for everyone involved.The fact is, we shouldn’t be fighting battles like this online. I know a lot of you dilute it by saying “it’s just a bunch of retards having beef online” or “it’s just the Internet, relax” but, it isn’t, is it?Over the past decade, we have had members of our communities get murdered, take their own lives, get swatted, get unfairly hounded by police & media, become the victims of sexual abuse, get stalked, threatened, and even droned.You may say that you don’t have centralised social media because it’s “normie” but part of me wonders if this is actually due to fear for personal safety. I am very irrelevant. Although considered an “e-celeb” (much to my dismay), by some, I am nowhere near as spoken about as people like Keffals, Null or Ethan Ralph are, yet even I, feel like I can’t attach my real legal name to anything public, that posting videos on centralised social media feels almost stupidly naive, & this, although I like to say, is OPSEC, is because I fear for my safety. We bring up the term Opsec a lot, as an explanation as to why we don’t tell people things that any normal person wouldn’t think twice about telling people. I believe we use the term Opsec to defend our paranoia, & our understandable fears for our safety.In the world of normies, having your name on public profiles, posting images of yourself to your friends, & audio calling people, is second nature; to us, it’s stupidly naive. But why? Do we consider these actions stupid because they’re actually stupid & a safety risk to most people, or do we consider them stupid because of the things we’ve experienced or seen happen to our friends, or even peers in this tiny sector of the Internet?In reality, our little underbelly of the Internet is probably less than 0.001% of the online world. Factually, most normal people can risk having their details publicly available without a care in the world, but to us, this can be the difference between whether a swat team pulls up at our house or not.Despite the fact our fears make sense, for the communities we are in, we have to recognise that this degree of “Opsec” is actually not normal, & maybe it shouldn’t be.We have normalised the idea that we must be constantly concerned for our safety, our identity, our reputations & our credibility. We look at normies with Facebook, & their family members added on it, as stupid or naive, but really, they aren’t. We’re the fucked up ones.This world is a lot like virtualised gang warfare. People in gangs, can usually never imagine going outside without a gun, or a knife, in the same way we can’t imagine logging on without a VPN, or using an alt email.And I get it. Telling us to stop being so paranoid & safety concerned would be like telling a gang member to just stop carrying a weapon. There is a legitimate likelihood that if we, or actual gang members, didn’t have our guns or Opsec to protect ourselves with, that we’d be targeted, with no defences available.We trivialise what we experience by saying it’s just stupid online arguments, but this feels more like a thing that’s said because people feel like if they used terms like “cyber war” to describe all of this, then that would be gay, or retarded.But it is exactly that, isn’t it?Maybe we are doing a disservice to the paranoia, pain & trauma we put ourselves through daily, by belittling it to just a bit of online slap fighting. There isn’t a solution. There is no “put down your guns” that would work for everybody. But maybe there’s a first step. Maybe the first step to making the Internet even just 1% more peaceful for everybody in this sector, is if we started to recognise how fucked up the things we, & our peers, go through are. No one gives a fuck about our safety. The police, the government & all the people that claim to care about civilians, don’t. We all know that. It is a tragedy that all of these virtual wars are down to us, a bunch of traumatised spergs, to fight to no end, even if by choice, but knowing that there isn’t a knight in shining armour to save us, I hope will eventually bring us to the conclusion that we have to be our own white knight. (Lol)Thanks for reading the cringe.
(DIR) Post #ANXaVkFLsZQqcB9oVE by Eschatology@poa.st
2022-09-10T00:50:51.583608Z
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@_Trollcow_ I read this, and I had a lot of time to think on it so I think I'll take a crack at some kind of a totally-not-bullshit, measured response on my part.>The fact is, we shouldn’t be fighting battles like this online.You're right. I wholly support bringing back dueling as a response to internet beefing of any kind, be it over politics, rep or whatever. 100%, with guns, or by hand-to-hand combat.>but part of me wonders if this is actually due to fear for personal safety.Of course it is, and this next point serves as a counter to many things you say. From even the old days when the internet arrived in cheaply-pressed AOL discs in the mail, or on magazines, or wherever seedy hotels could be found, the first rule of the internet was of extreme importance:You don't ever give someone your personal details, be they your name, your address, anything of the sort. As you've mentioned, this is practicing opsec. On the internet, this is completely normal and has been since its inception. It is a matter of safety, because people could easily weaponize those details and utilize them against you. Many institutions or people who they favor would not have the power that they do, if people continued to practice opsec accordingly. That's just how it is.You even say that these fears and concerns are perfectly warranted.>But why? Do we consider these actions stupid because they’re actually stupid & a safety risk to most peopleYes.>or do we consider them stupid because of the things we’ve experienced or seen happen to our friends, or even peers in this tiny sector of the Internet?Hell yes. They are stupid because they impose a major risk to everyone, not just our friends, not just anybody we know or would share company with. Any normal person can be dragged, just like the many who have before them. Even worse, when someone gets a hold of you, you jeopardize your whole family, you jeopardize your friends. You not practicing opsec doesn't ruin just you, your whole ship goes down because people can be ruthless. Most people can't be trusted with power in general, so imagine if someone has power over you and also a huge hard-on for wrecking your asshole. They'd be incorrigible.>but to us, this can be the difference between whether a swat team pulls up at our house or not.Anything that happens to us can easily happen to them. There's no distinction. Once opsec fails, anything is on the table for anybody. The kind of person you're talking about who would do the SWATting is already not a normal kind of person; they don't care about who they would do it to. If they have a grudge, they'll carry it out.>that this degree of “Opsec” is actually not normal, & maybe it shouldn’t be.It always has been and always will be.>We have normalised the idea that we must be constantly concerned for our safety, our identity, our reputations & our credibility. Right, like any sensible individual on or off the internet.>We look at normies with Facebook, & their family members added on it, as stupid or naive, but really, they aren’t. We’re the fucked up ones.No, we really aren't. You wouldn't go into a bad neighborhood without some kind of means of defense against others because guess what? Others aren't inherently trustworthy. That's not a claim born out of cynicism, that's just common sense. The internet is that bad neighborhood, and always has been. A digital Cabrini-Green. A cybernetic Compton. It has always been this way.Normalfaggots being on the internet didn't change what the internet is at the end of the day. All they are, are just social gentrifiers. They're trying to change a bad neighborhood and wonder at times why they get shot at.>No one gives a fuck about our safety. The police, the government & all the people that claim to care about civilians, don’t. We all know that.Our safety is not the responsibility of other people, it is our own. When I carry my handgun on my person when I go out, this is me taking charge of my own safety. Likewise, opsec is me carrying my gun here.I don't try to minimize it by saying "internet guys beefing," or whatever. I call it what it is, security. Safety.By the way, can we all stop calling any attempt at sincerity in the modern age "cringe?" You did fine.
(DIR) Post #ANXaVkhiB87K28QShs by _Trollcow_@poa.st
2022-09-10T01:55:06.759431Z
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@Eschatology > You're right. I wholly support bringing back dueling as a response to internet beefing of any kind, be it over politics, rep or whatever. 100%, with guns, or by hand-to-hand combat.So replace cyber war with… irl war, because that’s worked out so well for countries… > On the internet, this is completely normal and has been since its inception. It is a matter of safety, because people could easily weaponize those details and utilize them against you.My issue with this is that we are using OPSEC, out of fear. In real life, we don’t wear masks to hide our faces, or refuse to tell people our names, this is because we know that if somebody was to use these things to attack us, we could just call the cops. We should not have to fear for our safety, we should use privacy & anonymity out of choice, not out of fear. > You not practicing opsec doesn't ruin just you, your whole ship goes down because people can be ruthless. Most people can't be trusted with power in general, so imagine if someone has power over you and also a huge hard-on for wrecking your asshole. They'd be incorrigible.Absolutely. And this is the issue. We have normalised the use of people’s private details against them. > Anything that happens to us can easily happen to them. There's no distinction. Once opsec fails, anything is on the table for anybody.That’s why I feel bad for everybody. None of us truly have the upper hand & nobody is undoxable.The only real winners are the tech companies providing us all services, the people who make videos & documentaries about us, and the media who view these wars as trivial and retarded.> Right, like any sensible individual on or off the internet.Come on, we all know the paranoid to sensible ratio is off the charts. > No, we really aren't. You wouldn't go into a bad neighborhood without some kind of means of defense against others because guess what? Others aren't inherently trustworthy. That's not a claim born out of cynicism, that's just common sense. The internet is that bad neighborhood, and always has been. A digital Cabrini-Green. A cybernetic Compton. It has always been this way.That’s what I’ve been saying. It wouldn’t make sense to tell people to put down their defences & their weapons, but if that isn’t possible, we need to find some other way to make the neighbourhood safer, and maybe overtime, people will put down their guns. > They're trying to change a bad neighborhood and wonder at times why they get shot at.I agree. It’s insulting. Normies outside of this community have no right to speak about the intricacies, trauma or paranoia that we go through, and if any of them ever want a crack at it, they need to do a much better job at it than calling us all Nazis or terrorists.Finding a journo, or activist, who both understands a community, but who also wants to help make things better by getting people’s stories out there, and providing aid or resources, in a non exploitative & non clout chasing way, is nearly impossible to find. > I don't try to minimize it by saying "internet guys beefing," or whatever. I call it what it is, security. Safety. By the way, can we all stop calling any attempt at sincerity in the modern age "cringe?" You did fine.Thank you. I too dislike the fact that we have branded all sincerity and in depth discussion as gay or cringe. People complain that no one understands them, or they can’t talk about certain things, and then troll anyone who does. People who do this, are shooting themselves and everybody in this community, in the foot.
(DIR) Post #ANXaVlHW20kzpBB3Vw by Eschatology@poa.st
2022-09-10T02:08:21.245392Z
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@_Trollcow_ >So replace cyber war with… irl war, because that’s worked out so well for countries…It has. Peace, or faking peace, or whatever this ridiculous utopian nonsense is that's trying to bring everyone together no matter their race, culture nor creed, is causing much more damage than if people were left to naturally fight. War works.>My issue with this is that we are using OPSEC, out of fear. Yes, we do. It's concern for our safety. You're going into an unknown environment, full of unknown people. Which leads me to the following:>or refuse to tell people our namesI don't tell people a Goddamned thing, because they too could weaponize that. And I don't owe them a justification for being a private citizen if they ask me why.>We should not have to fear for our safety, we should use privacy & anonymity out of choice, not out of fear.Why can it not be both?You should fear for your safety wherever you go, and by that I don't mean a conscious fear of "oh god I could be killed at any point in time," just a subconscious understanding that yes, you could be killed at any time and yes, you should be on guard. Being on guard is natural, it's human, it protects our animal instincts no matter what environment we wander into.>That’s why I feel bad for everybody. None of us truly have the upper hand & nobody is undoxable.Correct. And yes, it sucks. I too wish I lived in a world where I didn't have to carry a gun on my person but it's just survival. I do it in case someone decides to randomly weaponize their strength against me or those I care about. Likewise, I carry my opsec for the same exact thing.>and the media who view these wars as trivial and retarded.The only reason why I am even here today is because the media did the exact opposite of this: They saw what was going on with that scumfuck faggot Keffals, threw their institutional power and weight behind it and at the behest of the government are trying to stifle a website's right to exist and speak and do whatever they wish (as long as it hadn't genuinely harmed anyone), while completely failing to even try to tell people why the person they were throwing their power behind was being "harassed" in the first place.The media does not view this shit as retarded anymore.They, serving as a hand of the government who wants to put it in peoples' minds that they can remain safe as long as they submit to what they want (the stifling of speech and expression), viewed this as an opportunity to further close off even more points of view and lead the cattle into one corral, with one thought, of one mind.I hate to inappropriately soapbox here, but that's why I'm here and that's why this point is wrong. Anyway:>but if that isn’t possible, we need to find some other way to make the neighbourhood saferNo dice: The internet was once viewed as the Wild West at one point because while it was dangerous, with those dangers came freedom. Normalfaggots stayed away from the internet at one point because they thought "oh no, that Anonymous guy hacking MySpace profiles would get me and call me a faggot on the line." But ever since we've suffered their presence, rights to freedom and expression have ultimately diminished.We don't need to make the neighborhood safer. "Safety" implies regulation. Regulation implies law, and law implies government, and fuck the government.>Normies outside of this community have no right to speak about the intricacies...I don't get on the internet to listen to normalfag retards, because my life is already given to them outside the internet. They're retarded. They have stupid opinions given to them by mass media and other retards in ritzier parts of the internet where saying "nigger" is like committing an act of terrorism. They have their places elsewhere; why bother listening to them about anything in the first place?>Finding a journoFUCK ALL JOURNALISTSEVERYFUCKINGDAY>Thank you. I too dislike the fact that we have branded all sincerity and in depth discussion as gay or cringe.So don't do it to yourself.
(DIR) Post #ANXaVlleDyrNKdH7Ts by _Trollcow_@poa.st
2022-09-10T03:02:09.969355Z
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@Eschatology The struggle between hating regulation & being unable to decrease our own suffering will be the death of this sector of the Internet. I’m calling it now.
(DIR) Post #ANXaVmGUNJWusHhkYK by Eschatology@poa.st
2022-09-10T03:04:36.409154Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@_Trollcow_ Suffering and the internet are both opt-in experiences.People simply have to learn to walk away if they don't like that.
(DIR) Post #ANlAPA3fRCqjTP5oLQ by 2020chan@poa.st
2022-09-20T02:48:44.534765Z
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@Eschatology @_Trollcow_ >I wholly support bringing back dueling as a response to internet beefing of any kind, be it over politics, rep or whatever. 100%, with guns, or by hand-to-hand combat.>No, we really aren't. You wouldn't go into a bad neighborhood without some kind of means of defense against others because guess what? Others aren't inherently trustworthy. That's not a claim born out of cynicism, that's just common sense. The internet is that bad neighborhood, and always has been. A digital Cabrini-Green. A cybernetic Compton. It has always been this way.Tell me you're from Chicago without telling me you're from Chicago.All jokes aside, I couldn't agree more with basically everything you've said in this thread. Idk why we went from "anyone could be observing you over the internet, so keep your identity safe" to "upload everything about yourself and broadcast it to as many people as possible" but I hate that we've gotten to this point.
(DIR) Post #ANlAPAUFqM7InrX2mm by Eschatology@poa.st
2022-09-20T15:29:07.413304Z
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@2020chan @_Trollcow_ >Tell me you're from Chicago without telling me you're from Chicago.I didn't think somebody would catch on. Yes, I've very close ties with Chicago.>Idk why we went from "anyone could be observing you over the internet, so keep your identity safe" to "upload everything about yourself and broadcast it to as many people as possible"Many reasons, the most prominent being that people can't help but to make everything a reflection or extension of their own lives. This is just the human ego at work, we can't help but try to make things understandable to our human perspective and consumable for our lives. I remember that an interesting perspective that people had to be reminded of constantly was that the internet was not the real life. Now the inverse is true, because a critical mass of people decided they would just ignore that, even at the risk of their own safety (and it's like I said, they wonder why or even how they get shot at because people are this naive).Group and location dynamics change once enough people decide to not care about prior established axioms. This is why I feared for Poast changing when everybody (myself included) came aboard. People change things with numbers alone. And of course, the government, media and corporations had their own profit motives to fulfill by helping to normalize the Internet.