Post AN3m8PvC3npOSRZTzk by Azure@tailswish.industries
(DIR) More posts by Azure@tailswish.industries
(DIR) Post #AN2hza5mHaCmQ95qT2 by Anarkat@hackers.town
2022-08-26T18:16:53Z
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Explain to me the functional difference, to the larger society, not to the individual, between being killed, and being imprisoned for life.The few that I can think of is that a living lifelong prisoner serves as a persistent warning of consequences to other members of societyAnd that having these kinds of lifelong prisoners means jobs must be "Created" to oversee them.
(DIR) Post #AN2hzaVIkgcbhJ2EFc by adamasnemesis@social.adamasnemesis.com
2022-08-30T04:43:24Z
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@Anarkat Good points.
(DIR) Post #AN3G7W04mFG4UJNh2W by cy@mstdn.io
2022-08-26T20:11:15Z
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@Anarkat Because it's yucky when you chop their head off.Also because life sentences can be commuted, laws can be reformed, and the wrongly accused can sometimes very rarely be acquitted. But that doesn't help much if you chopped their heads off whoops
(DIR) Post #AN3G7WRj7RNNs4Jm8e by cy@mstdn.io
2022-08-26T20:14:12Z
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@Anarkat A less shitty argument might be because the justice system is incapable, incapable of deciding whether someone should live or die. But that begs the question why would they be capable of deciding whether someone should be imprisoned or not?
(DIR) Post #AN3HnTLt75DCOK9cKO by Moon@shitposter.club
2022-08-30T11:24:38.331657Z
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@Anarkat they're not really a warning because we shove prisoners off into a place where no one sees or thinks about them. That is intentional.Private prisons are effectively job programs because they lobby the government for more incarceration, which is pretty ghoulish. Government prisons are purely a cost center and spending that any government would rather spend on something productive. but you do see lobbying to fund them better. Usually though the reason is the prison is literally falling apart, or they are understaffed which makes them more dangerous for both the inmates and the guards, regardless if you think prisons are necessary in the first place.I don't think you'll see this because your server blocks ours but I wrote it for my TL also. Anyway, cheers.
(DIR) Post #AN3NW45OOk7SpeWNOq by ilja@ilja.space
2022-08-30T12:28:39.586130Z
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@Anarkat In Belgium at least, you can get out after 15yrs on a lifelong sentence. And I think the sentence in practice is 30yrs, even if it's called lifelong. If you're imprisoned longer than that, it's probably because you showed serious signs of potential relapse. But you do get the chance for reintegration if you really want to take it.
(DIR) Post #AN3jUyn0npQr6ioMvg by valhalla@social.gl-como.it
2022-08-30T12:45:20Z
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@Anarkat I believe that in many countries life imprisonment allows for the possibility of parole, so even people who are serving it may eventually go back into society. I don't know how common in practice it is, however.
(DIR) Post #AN3jUz9LSnISDzGCjw by clacke@libranet.de
2022-08-30T16:25:13Z
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@valhalla @Anarkat In Sweden most prisoners for life do not stay for life.
(DIR) Post #AN3jUzW26RRdMLsK6S by Anarkat@hackers.town
2022-08-30T16:29:08Z
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@clacke @valhalla @ilja I'm posting this specifically from an american perspective.I understand you're sharing different european perspectives, but I want you to understand that "that's not a thing we worry about here" is not a constructive response to the post that I made, when I'm specifically talking about things that do happen in the US, and how those abuses relate to wider society.
(DIR) Post #AN3jUztmg8RYY0zI7k by ilja@ilja.space
2022-08-30T16:34:54.849497Z
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@Anarkat @clacke @valhalla I'm not saying we don't worry about it here. Or at least that wasn't the intent. I guess what I'm trying to say is that one reason for life imprisonment over death sentence is exactly the fact that someone can be released again. If even that isn't the case in US, then that's a perspective I was missing.
(DIR) Post #AN3juBur8TPj3fVCee by Anarkat@hackers.town
2022-08-30T16:38:15Z
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@ilja I'm not saying it's your fault for not knowing that. I understand that it's something that you wouldn't have any context for. I'm in a better place to express these ideas than I sometimes am, so aren't upset about it. I think there's a lot of things about the US that are so completely monstrously abusive and exploitative that it's difficult for a lot of european people to even comprehend what the actual problem is.@clacke @valhalla
(DIR) Post #AN3m8PvC3npOSRZTzk by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-08-30T17:04:34.498866Z
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@Anarkat It's a source of coerced labor.In the US, it's also a source of political power. Get a big prison in your district and you get a bunch of people counted in the census and your area gets to take seats in the house away from someone else.It also lets you have your cake and eat it, as a political campaigner. More and more people are opposed to executions.But there isn't the same opposition to long prison sentences, so you can trumpet your 'tough on crime' credentials by talking about how many lives you destroyed, but since nobody got executed you don't stir up as much opposition.
(DIR) Post #AN3oCxRJaBYvTkt9w8 by heluecht@pirati.ca
2022-08-30T17:27:25Z
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When you kill someone, you can't unkill that person when you realize that you made a mistake.
(DIR) Post #AN3oiYDCuhHUVIM3QO by clacke@libranet.de
2022-08-30T17:21:26Z
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@Azure @Anarkat > Get a big prison in your district and you get a bunch of people counted in the census and your area gets to take seats in the house away from someone else.I hadn't thought of that. Sounds a lot like the 3/5 rule, but even more extreme.
(DIR) Post #AN3oiYgz7z6HzeHpq4 by Anarkat@hackers.town
2022-08-30T17:23:16Z
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@clacke It's not even 3/5.These districts literally get all the benefits of having these people counted as "citizens" of their district, but these "citizens" have absolutely no control or say in how they are represented.People being used as points in a game of numbers in politics@Azure
(DIR) Post #AN3oiZFN48bdiINIR6 by clacke@libranet.de
2022-08-30T17:31:28Z
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@Anarkat @Azure Solution: Give the incarcerated a vote. Works in some US states.I'm not naive enough to believe it will happen in any of the others any time soon, though. Just wishful thinking.
(DIR) Post #AN3oiZjVG6i1DkTMP2 by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-08-30T17:33:30.487559Z
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@clacke That was one of the things that made me like Sanders so much. He was the only one calling for incarcerated people, without exception, to have the vote.@Anarkat
(DIR) Post #AN3pVMbcqyoGhJ3HbE by Anarkat@hackers.town
2022-08-30T17:32:09Z
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@heluecht that's in individual concern, not a societal concern. @valhalla @clacke @ilja
(DIR) Post #AN3pVN8wr5SsMedtXU by heluecht@pirati.ca
2022-08-30T17:42:01Z
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I think that this is important for the social conscience as well.
(DIR) Post #AN3tFkTIkl8Htny4xM by Anarkat@hackers.town
2022-08-30T17:45:14Z
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@heluecht in a society founded on empathy, this matters.For clarification, I'm referring to purely material benefit to society, from a capitalist perspective.@valhalla @clacke @ilja
(DIR) Post #AN3tFkxQwjEfPG48vI by heluecht@pirati.ca
2022-08-30T18:23:57Z
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From a purely capitalistic perspective it does make sense as well. Just having a look at the states, people are waiting decades for their execution. AFAIK they are awaiting this in special prisons, separated from other prisoners. They mustn't work, thus they can't be productive and also they will bind more manpower to observe them then a person with a lifelong sentence.