Post AMrlci2Upda9UALfn6 by ta180m@social.exozy.me
(DIR) More posts by ta180m@social.exozy.me
(DIR) Post #AMjXzey1T1NpzkcsaW by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-20T21:50:47Z
3 likes, 6 repeats
I wrote a blog post about various #forge #federation myths: https://ta180m.exozy.me/posts/forge-federation-myths/As usual, feel free to ask me questions about forge or #Gitea federation!
(DIR) Post #AMp7XvjS6sJc1SggKm by helene@p.helene.moe
2022-08-23T15:23:49.250961Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@ta180m hello! i do have a few questions!will you be using mostly Forge-specific activity types or will you use ActivityStreams core vocabulary? (i'm asking to know if it would be possible to interact from microblogging-related instance software (Mastodon, Pleroma, etc), for example to create or comment on issues, things like that)
(DIR) Post #AMp7aLw3epWfrzjro8 by w@arachnid.town
2022-08-23T15:21:43.592783Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ta180m The part criticising people for saying git is already decentralised I think is kinda lousy and dishonest. Calling it just a myth is a dick move.
(DIR) Post #AMp91ZvHrNvX1ZvMdk by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-23T15:39:29Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@helene we'll be using mixture of ForgeFed types and core AS types. We plan on having features like commenting on an issue with a Mastodon account, but currently Mastodon violates the AP spec by ignoring any ForgeFed types: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/18806
(DIR) Post #AMp9eCMhNiKJFrA3jk by helene@p.helene.moe
2022-08-23T15:47:21.804280Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ta180m How does this violate AP spec if the type is not supported by the remote server? (I don't remember seeing anything about this in spec, but I'd like to see, so things can be fixed)Support for those types could be added in Pleroma, though, depending on what the issue is. ActivityStreams supports using an array on `type` to specify that an activity may be multiple types (using e.g. the supported base activity type first, and the extended type second), which would help servers in understanding activities for types they do not understand.
(DIR) Post #AMp9lts41fqCDGVLLk by daniel@pleroma.doserver.duckdns.org
2022-08-23T14:14:47.318667Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ta180m The main reason I like gh is for project discovery. People can find my stuff and I spend (too much) time looking on gh for cool projects I should stay aware of.Will gitea federation help replicate that or not really?Will there be an option to follow (follow is the wrong word - flow through, index) all of an instance’s content so that self hosted instances don’t feel too seperated?
(DIR) Post #AMp9nDvmvdXiiYsTXU by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-23T15:10:52Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@daniel Gitea isn't working on discoverability, but Forgeflux's North Star project (https://github.com/forgeflux-org/northstar) is actively developing repo indexing and search for the entire ForgeFed federation.For following an entire instance, we haven't really considered that feature, but you will be able to mirror individual repos including issues, PRs, and releases.
(DIR) Post #AMp9npbupyE3Zvs8q8 by daniel@pleroma.doserver.duckdns.org
2022-08-23T15:16:36.492230Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@ta180m Thanks for the brilliant response! Northstar sounds good, if it works, but seems a little bare bones atm. Hopefully it see more dev soon (that sounds kinda snobby - sorry). Is there any change for integration with such services (like with the explore section of gitea), or is it likely to stay as a separate toolMirroring including issues and PRs will be good, but I guess my second question doesn’t make the most sense without the first being in place.
(DIR) Post #AMp9yveWiH6zVGNwQa by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-23T15:36:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@w the only reason I included it was because I get asked that question *a lot*. I'm not trying to be "dishonest" here.
(DIR) Post #AMp9yw2dGeOUi1fC08 by w@arachnid.town
2022-08-23T15:48:36.437421Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ta180m That doesn't change the fact that you included "Git is already decentralised" as the first section in an article called "Forge Federation Myths." If you wanted to say that GitHub isn't decentralised, then by all means go ahead. The kinds of people who say "git is already decentralised" are the exact kinds of people who are well aware of that. Whether it's intentional or not you're misrepresenting people, and also ignoring the biggest point those people tend to make (E-mail) in the process.
(DIR) Post #AMpAr8ny1si7vpeRGa by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-20T22:52:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
According to my nginx log, 85.49% of the viewers of that post were bots 😦
(DIR) Post #AMpAr9O7rRdNjyZJcu by helene@p.helene.moe
2022-08-23T16:00:54.525031Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ta180m almost every instance fetches to generate an embed!
(DIR) Post #AMpPhepNc51ZfJFR32 by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-23T18:43:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@w I'm sorry if my post offended you and I didn't mean to criticize or ridicule people that claim Git is already decentralized.What I wanted to explain is that Git itself is just a fancy distributed filesystem, and needs something else like mailing lists or ForgeFed to be fully decentralized.
(DIR) Post #AMpPhfFc2Y0YyfWNw8 by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-23T18:45:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@w thanks for the feedback and I'll try to use it to improve the wording and explanation in my article.
(DIR) Post #AMpPhfiKJmycPixJh2 by w@arachnid.town
2022-08-23T18:44:37.087378Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@ta180m I appreciate the reception.
(DIR) Post #AMpSdJwvb0L7cIP00e by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-23T18:41:05Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@helene iirc the AP spec required servers to continue processing types that they don't recognize as best as they can. Mastodon could extract the name and content of ForgeFed ticket objects and render them as posts, for instance.Type arrays are another solution, but Mastodon doesn't support them and go-ap, the library Gitea is using for federation, also doesn't support them the last time I checked.
(DIR) Post #AMpTpPcYR3iWdSCb3o by helene@p.helene.moe
2022-08-23T19:33:29.384323Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@ta180m I've been looking at the spec, I don't see much about this. This would be acceptable behaviour for unsupported object types, but this could easily go wrong. I am not a fan of the idea, at all. For example, PeerTube creates a "View" activity for each time someone watches a video. If someone decided to refer to those in an `object`/`inReplyTo`/etc field on their activities, this would be a nightmare.Type arrays can and should be supported, in my opinion. JSON-LD also has what's necessary for extending types, as well. Issues then come as to how to represent such types (should Repositories really be represented as accounts? how would one star an account from current Mastodon/etc? should Issues be represented as posts? should people be able to hellthread a repo's issues from a social network? emoji reacts?)
(DIR) Post #AMrlcSxKuXXehooqAK by mike@unfediverse.com
2022-08-24T20:42:04Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
Methinks you should read the spec again. Implementations are free to ignore extensions they don't know about. The spec actually recommends that if you wish to provide an extension type such as a "Frumble" that can gracefully devolve into and be displayed as a "Note" you identify it as a [ "Note", "Frumble" ]. Some projects will try and display this. If you do this backward and call it a [ "Frumble", "Note" ] or just call it a "Frumble", and we have no idea what a Frumble represents, we've every right to throw it into the bitbucket.
(DIR) Post #AMrlci2Upda9UALfn6 by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-24T21:58:34Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mike @helene Thanks for the correction. I'm actually not working on Gitea-Mastodon interoperability right now, and it was someone else that told me Mastodon was the problem and supposedly violating the spec. Also, Mastodon and go-ap (the AP library Gitea is using) both don't support type arrays, so that complicates any solution involving type arrays.
(DIR) Post #AMrmsaADyoTdeF618C by helene@p.helene.moe
2022-08-24T22:16:23.172863Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mike hello, sorry, completely unrelated question, but: your reply had difficulties federating to Pleroma (it seems like the Create activity was rejected, but not the object itself). Do you have the URI of the Create activity for that Note? Thank you!
(DIR) Post #AMroL6yxehc7UjzmM4 by helene@p.helene.moe
2022-08-24T22:32:44.375214Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mike Nevermind; found it via your actor's outbox! Thank you nevertheless!
(DIR) Post #AMsw65RW5fIxATet8a by humanetech@mastodon.social
2022-08-25T11:30:39Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@helene @ta180m Yea, I don't think "violate spec" is accurate. #ActivityStreams-core:> Consuming implementations that encounter unfamiliar extensions MUST NOT stop processing or signal an error and MUST continue processing the items as if those properties were not present. Note that support for extensions can vary across implementations and no normative processing model for extensions is defined.
(DIR) Post #AMswDNOziTrEtXxFxY by humanetech@mastodon.social
2022-08-25T11:33:30Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@len @ta180m @helene You can start with this guide: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/guide-for-new-activitypub-implementers/479And find a lot of info on the forum. Don't hesitate to ask questions there.Also I co-maintain 3 fediverse lists at https://delightful.club where you find a lotta codebases to learn from.And use hashtags and @activitypub group when asking questions on the fedi.
(DIR) Post #AMsyGMDAndOtylyU52 by mariusor@metalhead.club
2022-08-25T11:51:57Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@ta180m @helene Type as arrays is planned for go-activitypub.https://todo.sr.ht/~mariusor/go-activitypub/165
(DIR) Post #AMt5XyYaBXdVVVKwpE by mariusor@metalhead.club
2022-08-25T11:54:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@helene I think you're working with the assumption that all clients must work with all activity types. That in my opinion is wrong. Doing a "best effort" thing on what a client doesn't understand seems enough to me. Best effort being handling the properties that the client already understands (attributedTo, inReplyto, name, summary, To, CC, samd)@ta180m
(DIR) Post #AMt5XzK5KvdLspYsro by helene@p.helene.moe
2022-08-25T13:20:14.948749Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@mariusor @ta180m the subject at hand is servers more than clients, and i don't believe it's unreasonable to not process activity types one does not understand, especially considering the examples i've given (and i can give yet more)
(DIR) Post #AMt74BmidgZ1knsDIG by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-25T13:36:55Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@humanetech @helene interesting, thanks for the clarification.
(DIR) Post #AMt7xCsgGV5b53tdeS by ta180m@social.exozy.me
2022-08-25T13:46:55Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@helene @mariusor yes, that's right that this is about servers, not clients since Gitea isn't planning on implementing C2S, at least for now.@helene for all the examples you gave above, I think they're all reasonable examples of servers processing types they don't understand. For instance treating repos as accounts is perfectly fine because you can follow repos, and treating issues as posts also makes sense so fediverse users can comment on them or even do emoji reacts.
(DIR) Post #AMtVz0pCSTkpAUf77Q by sysinshell@pleroma.envs.net
2022-08-25T17:54:47.601336Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@w @ta180m I hate Email. How many people have a domain name?Gossip, CRDT are only mature recently. In the future, maybe a "repo" is a IPFS pubsub topic, and people subscribe to it for updates. Scuttlebus+Git already does this.
(DIR) Post #AMtVz1HYl2RIaRvlK4 by w@arachnid.town
2022-08-25T18:13:55.504953Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sysinshell @ta180m This has nothing to do with the point I was making.
(DIR) Post #AMtWYgxVnSjbypYzB2 by sysinshell@pleroma.envs.net
2022-08-25T18:18:08.089829Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@w @ta180m Information wise, yes. Debate wise, no.
(DIR) Post #AMtWYhQE4hhfPszuvw by w@arachnid.town
2022-08-25T18:20:23.862587Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sysinshell @ta180m I am not talking about how one thing is or isn't decentralised. I am criticising them for dismissing valid points as a myth. I don't give a shit about having this kind of argument.