Post AMouEfcwStALAS80Z6 by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
(DIR) More posts by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
(DIR) Post #AMoGAo6f06pg8ndEKO by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-20T19:56:57Z
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>Guy saying I would never make a good "performance-focussed programmer">His reason: Because I use Windows 10 as my daily driver :drool: >Guy keeps talking about "freedom">But rejects my freedom to make the decision to use Windows 10 because it's what suits me needs :drool:
(DIR) Post #AMoGAoaRDOeTd9Z0k4 by r_libre@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-21T14:14:43Z
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@finlaydag33k In our society will be kind of hard not getting a nagative reaction from others when you tell something bad about a piece of software or hardware, this happens because people tend to develop an attachment for things.When you "reveal" something negative about anything is very likely that a lot of people will get angry. Maybe they feel guilty or away from their comfort zone, maybe they never cared about it and now they feel that need to give an explanation for the way the live.
(DIR) Post #AMoGApmWlvutKwEBE0 by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-20T21:59:46Z
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And I basically just completely and utterly destroyed the guy.
(DIR) Post #AMoGCqBIG3PD9eli2i by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-21T14:41:28Z
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@r_libre I mean, there's a difference between "hey man, I recommend not using this software but instead using this because [X]" and "OMG YOU'RE AN IDIOT FOR USING THIS SOFTWARE INSTEAD OF THAT SOFTWARE AND YOU'LL NEVER MAKE A GOOD PROGRAMMER BECAUSE OF IT HAHAHAH"
(DIR) Post #AMoGCqgUO4MKiPMcfQ by r_libre@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-21T15:04:52Z
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@finlaydag33k yes, but even if you are polite a lot of people will get angry. People tend to love things over other people.Maybe in the future you can try another way to interact with other people.But also, we can't deny that is hilarious that someone want to achieve performance with windows 10! 😆
(DIR) Post #AMoGE0cOwDs1oa0NI8 by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-21T17:42:06Z
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@r_libre What? The issue wasn't *me*, the issue was him going all REEEEEE because I used Windows 10 XDHe wasn't polite *at all* (unless you think throwing insults at someone as part of your "argument" is the "polite thing to do"?), I was.So... Why exactly am *I* the one that needs to try another way to interact with other people?Should I have gone full caveman against him instead?also, you can achieve performance with W10 just fine tho?
(DIR) Post #AMoGE16X8ByPK26RG4 by r_libre@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-21T20:41:18Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@finlaydag33k using any proprietary software always is like trying to mitigate the malware in it in order to use it the way we want, there is no need to do that, also we will become part of the problem.We need to realize that proprietary software is bad because it wasn't developed in a ethical way, they only want money and they will do whatever they can in order to get it.Also, there is no excuse to insult anyone and always is better to avoid that kind of situations.
(DIR) Post #AMoGG4KQ7DXhtsZp2G by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-21T22:10:28Z
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@r_libre proprietary software isn't always bad and isn't always developed in an unethical way either.Yes, they only want money but think about it...The people working on the software also need to be paid n such.Would you be willing to spend all your time working op FOSS but never get a single cent for it?How will you feed yourself?Sure, you can get donations but getting a living wage in donations is a big task.And sure, some FOSS projects managed to do it, but that's just survivor bias.
(DIR) Post #AMoGG4kIZ0F7C8gUN6 by lxo@gnusocial.net
2022-08-22T06:13:07Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
there appears to be some misassociation between respecting users' freedoms and not getting any payment for development work. most software development work, by far, is done under contract, with the software being developed at the request of, paid by and for use by a single customer. most such software ends up under control of the single customer that hired its development, and is therefore free software, and the developers got paid for it. the case you appear to have in mind is the exception rather than the rule, both in freedom-respecting and freedom-denying software markets
(DIR) Post #AMoGHHB7pBfg2lnxSa by lxo@gnusocial.net
2022-08-22T06:15:29Z
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"never" is probably too strong, but it's harder to get very far when your hands and feet are cuffed and your eyes are covered, for you to better serve someone else's business
(DIR) Post #AMoGJYmvK6gbEpZdS4 by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-22T09:13:20Z
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@lxo So... Because I use Windows *at home*, my hands and feet are cuffed and my eyes are covered for *my work*?Nah lad, that isn't how it works.There's pretty much nothing I can't do on Windows that relates to my work (which involves programming embedded security devices).And that's not even mentioning the part where, at work, I use Manjaro...
(DIR) Post #AMoGJZCRnD6QVzW1Ee by lxo@gnusocial.net
2022-08-22T13:26:45Z
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> Because I use Windows *at home*, my hands and feet are cuffed and my eyes are covered for *my work*?of course not, they're only cuffed and covered WRT what you could learn and do while enduring Windows. it could indirectly affect your skills at work, present or future, inasmuchas it depended on what you learned or did at your home computer
(DIR) Post #AMoGMSWr3Emkh7RLOa by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-22T09:19:35Z
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@lxo So let's say:- You hired someone to make your software.- You paid them.- You got your software.- You release it as free software.How are you gonna keep it updated? Or are you gonna rely 100% on the community to update it for you?Or are you gonna keep paying developers to do it? But how are you gonna come up with the finances to keep doing this?
(DIR) Post #AMoGMSxnR4Ku2g2rOC by lxo@gnusocial.net
2022-08-22T13:34:29Z
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> How are you gonna keep it updated?if what the software does was important enough for your business to pay for its development, you keep on taking a part of the money you make in the business to also pay someone to maintain and keep the software updated. there's no magic involved, that's how things have worked for quite a long time. the fact that the software is made available to others (or not, it's your freedom, your choice to make; thank you if you choose to share) doesn't change your business needs, nor your motivation or investment in the software. you could make a bet that others will pick up the tab for you, but if the business needs the software to keep on working, that amounts to betting your business
(DIR) Post #AMoGORafVlv8MZAcuu by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-22T13:49:59Z
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@lxo But here's the deal...What if my business doesn't make any money because nobody pays me for the product?Which is a *very* plausible scenario (why pay when it's literally there for free?).How am I gonna pay for its development then (in-house developers or contractors, doesn't matter for this argument)?And needing to rely on the OSS community to pick up the work for you is too big of a gamble for sustaining your business.
(DIR) Post #AMoGOS2Jqy2RkK6i12 by lxo@gnusocial.net
2022-08-22T14:52:54Z
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you seem to be thinking of selling access to the software. that's the uncommon case, but many companies seem to be able to sell development, support and other services that enable them to pay developers.but selling access to the software is the uncommon case. while software licensing business added up to less than 2% of IT revenue, services around software, which is the case we've been talking about, added up to some 40% of IT revenue. these numbers are not current, but people already got the wrong picture about mass vs custom software development and services back thenthe case we've been talking about is not a software business paying developers so that it can sell the software, but any business paying developers so that it can *use* the software as part of its business. that's the common case. most businesses that rely on software are *not* software businesses, you see? proprietary software is the exception rather than the rule, and a bad and harmful exception at that
(DIR) Post #AMoGQYnHhSqlHd53Gi by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
2022-08-22T15:46:50Z
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I strongly support "that guy". windoze as OS is bullshit. I'm less polite than some people and used to put things as they are. it's not just too far from being real-time. it's so dumb and stupid that it's not even acceptable for common user level software.and I state this after having a lot of experience in programming. I left windoze many years ago and I have never, never regretted this. I really work with optimized and real-time software and windows is pain in the ass if people have to do anything fast and robust.you're not prevented from using any bullshit. nobody can prevent you from doing this. but you should know what you do and the serious problems of the system.
(DIR) Post #AMoGRP1bVTCZH6BDo8 by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
2022-08-22T15:49:10Z
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and I didn't even mention it's proprietary and proprietary means "malware", as a fact. so I don't see any reasons for using it.
(DIR) Post #AMoX0PaH1AuWPY700u by finlaydag33k@social.linux.pizza
2022-08-22T16:17:13Z
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@iron_bug I know the serious problems of the system.And outside the telemetry and the bloat (and not to forget Cortana scuffing things 24/7)... There isn't really any serious problem to it.You are kind of a niche user, not the "normal" developer (not talking about skill but the field you work in).It'd be like me expecting Windows to be what we need for our nautical computers (radar, active sonar etc.)... Which again, is a niche.
(DIR) Post #AMoX0Q1ZNgkFmCsnYm by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
2022-08-23T08:15:33Z
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in my world one microsecond is too long. but if it wasn't for Linux servers and Linux network devices we wouldn't have the Internet as we know it.
(DIR) Post #AMoX0QUddbztEMU0rw by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2022-08-23T08:34:21.847386Z
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@iron_bug Um, you seem to be giving all credit to Linux, when it doesn't belong that that kernel only.>all the network and the most gadgets, not mentioning embedded devices of all kinds that a billions in number run Linux. Those gadgets would do nothing with just Linux, they typically have GNU or BusyBox as well.Beyond the insane latency requirements (mostly handled by networking hardware until it comes to deciding what to do with packets), the internet working as we know it requires BGP routing.There's a number of implementations, but GNU Zebra is one (now decommissioned and continued by Quagga, but it still works).
(DIR) Post #AMojVFVhijmbaxRgW0 by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
2022-08-23T10:28:22Z
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OS means kernel. the rest is just user interface. it's optional and may be whatever, it's just a shell for end user convenience. and it may not present at all in some configurations (microcontrollers, kernel-space solutions, whatever). system kernel is the thing that performs the most work. and windoze just cannot do that work fast because of poor design. they never tried to make it optimal or real-time. I had to deal with it too in the past and this is why I switched to Linux, I know what I mean exactly. I switched to Linux because I dealt with drivers and hardware related programming that needed hard optimization. so when I say Linux is faster than windoze I mean kernel, internal timers, interrupt processing and that all. I barely need a lection about busybox. this is irrelevant, it may work on any kernel if you port it.
(DIR) Post #AMojVG8LP4gvWnWXk8 by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2022-08-23T10:54:24.202937Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@iron_bug >OS means kernelIt does not, anyone who says that has confused themselves.The only definition of OS that makes sense is something similar to; "A system of software that allows you to operate a computer".Some people say that the definition of OS is; "Some system software that allows the hardware to be operated.", which is what a kernel does, but if you slap just a kernel on your computer, it's not going to do much operating.Really, the thing that makes the computer operate is the combination of such kernel with other software - the kernel is only one necessary part.>the rest is just user interface. it's optional and may be whateverThe rest isn't just user interface, plus if it's optional, explain this: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/init/main.c#n1550>it's just a shell for end user convenienceYes, a shell is very convenient, so convenient that you can't really operate a computer without at least a shell.>it may not present at all in some configurations (microcontrollers, kernel-space solutions, whatever).Yes, some people may take Linux and then slap some more software in to turn it into an OS, but that's really so rarely done, so that such specific setup needs to be specifically mentioned.>system kernel is the thing that performs the most workThis entirely depends. The kernel could be performing most of the required work (i.e. packet routing), but the most important work could possibly be BGP routing and in that case, the other software could arguably be doing the most work.>windoze just cannot do that work fast because of poor design. they never tried to make it optimal or real-timeI'm not too sure about the windows architecture, but I guess routing might be entirely handled out of kernel space by low performance software and it that's the case, that's why routing sucks.You still can handle routing out of kernel space just fine if you do it properly mind you.Linux isn't a real time kernel either, although there's a patchset that gets you almost there.>when I say Linux is faster than windoze I mean kernel, internal timers, interrupt processing ant that allInterval timers and interrupt processing really should be handled by the kernel, so it'll probably make more sense to refer to the NT kernel.>I barely need a lection about busybox. this is irrelevant, it may work on any kernel if you port it. I don't see how mentioning that BusyBox exists is lecturing you about it.The part about it working on any kernel really makes the kernel more irrelevant than BusyBox I would say.
(DIR) Post #AMokK40oEML4hcE0KO by Soy_Magnus@shitposter.club
2022-08-23T11:03:37.208367Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Suiseiseki @iron_bug I just learned so much thank u
(DIR) Post #AMouEfcwStALAS80Z6 by iron_bug@friendica.ironbug.org
2022-08-23T12:34:38Z
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OS operates with hardware, this "operation" is not related to user.
(DIR) Post #AMouEg9CWwyCmVDlqa by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2022-08-23T12:54:39.724227Z
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@iron_bug >OS is a software layer that supplies API to hardware and other resources. that's it.Correct, but such software layer isn't limited to just a kernel.>it may work without any end user and does not necessary need any user interface, hence.Sure, but in most cases you need some sort of interface to have a usable computer.>OS have access to network, disks. memory, CPU.How else would it work?>for example. so "OS as something connected with user" is a pretty limited lamer's definitionI didn't write that, so I'm not sure what you're quoting.>OS means API to hardware. the rest is user layer and it may or may not present. Sure, there may be some software that don't offer an API to anything and that software may or may not be present.>computer may operate without user interface, video card and many more things that are designed for end users.Sure, but it's possible for a user to operate a computer by pressing the power button rather than operating a user interface.You can setup a computer to boot just Linux on the power being pressed by the user (heck, it doesn't need to be a button, it can be when power is applied by the user), but you'll just get a panic() - therefore Linux is not an OS.
(DIR) Post #ANP96XYXeK4J9uuFUW by Archivist@social.linux.pizza
2022-09-10T00:30:53Z
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@iron_bug @finlaydag33k if one microsecond is too long, I am pretty sure you are not looking to use free software for your networking need but DPDK as Linux is just slightly better than windows at IO. If performance is key, you probably use things like CUDA for doing large analysis forgoing any concerns from free software.Will people like you start to look for the right tool and not the one that satisfies their religious beliefs?