Post AMl68DSwg0deuJIkk4 by cheru@fedi.absturztau.be
(DIR) More posts by cheru@fedi.absturztau.be
(DIR) Post #AMkwDscY5lVGS9r68G by Moon@shitposter.club
2022-08-21T14:58:05.883917Z
6 likes, 4 repeats
Norah Vincent didn't think that men had it harder in every way and she meticulously documented the things we do to each other that hurt us. But she humanized maleness and that is why she was mostly ignored by other feminists in my estimation.
(DIR) Post #AMkwT0ohtwZWDUl3JI by Moon@shitposter.club
2022-08-21T15:00:50.078953Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
she got significant media play so she wasn't ignored by everyone, though.
(DIR) Post #AMkwj22X7ceedvrcDw by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2022-08-21T15:03:44.806206Z
5 likes, 1 repeats
It's been over 15 years since I read her book, but one thing I remember vividly was the empathy that radiated through the book. At the very beginning she might have thought she was going to "gotcha" the men and prove how evil and nasty they were, but ultimately what she learned was that a lot of parts of being a man are actually nightmarish and there's nothing they can do about it.The parts where she as a lesbian tried dating as a man was hard to read, but showed that no, just dating women like a man doesn't mean you understand what men go through.Sounds like the act of empathising with real men instead of the simulacra of men created by academics and the media was a deeply traumatizing experience.
(DIR) Post #AMkwkEzcRrt56c4qau by Moon@shitposter.club
2022-08-21T15:03:51.130973Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
I think that the world needed more people like her and her death by assisted suicide is a tragedy. I did not realize she was anti-trans, because I didn't know that I don't know any details about it so I don't have an opinion.
(DIR) Post #AMkwtyIFOM52D0Qjqa by Moon@shitposter.club
2022-08-21T15:05:42.354666Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sj_zero I agree.
(DIR) Post #AMkwz9QrPAhcCfveL2 by shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-08-21T15:06:37.567Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sj_zero@social.fbxl.net what book is this, seems interesting
(DIR) Post #AMkxFN2Wa2z32WHQ4e by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T15:08:44.738329Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@shibao @sj_zero a lesbian tried to pass as a guy for a while, gave herself bad dysphoria, and then came out the other side suicidal and on lots of pills. then she wrote another book about being in and out of psych wards and how much they suck. she also came out of the experience thinking "trans isn't a thing because it didn't work for me" (precisely backwards thing to conclude, but kinda understandable
(DIR) Post #AMkxHqYNosNT9dMWTQ by shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-08-21T15:10:01.299Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu @sj_zero@social.fbxl.net lmfaoi'm curious to see what her day to day experience was like
(DIR) Post #AMkxMcBafK1W2eyV2e by Hyolobrika@gleasonator.com
2022-08-21T15:10:53.179326Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
I think it's this book?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norah_Vincent
(DIR) Post #AMkxSuIqDhYRy5MnUO by Moon@shitposter.club
2022-08-21T15:11:59.200869Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shmibs @shibao @sj_zero the book isn't about trans stuff though
(DIR) Post #AMkxvfoj9lUJRIzwES by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T15:16:22.654610Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon @shibao @sj_zero i've read the books. here:P1100544.JPG
(DIR) Post #AMkycPvQ7PQQbSVhZo by Moon@shitposter.club
2022-08-21T15:24:56.746502Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@shmibs @shibao @sj_zero OK, I'm not denying that someone would have dysphoria doing that I just didn't remember it going into trans discourse as a consequence of it (in the book). it's been many years though. in the early 2000s i had a single trans friend, but it wasn't on my radar at all and the big thing i got from the book was that it bridged the gap between intersectional discourse "of course bad things for men do exist, because of Patriarchy" and the book going into detail and humanizing the difficulties of males, and documented the ways males helped each other with the difficulties. this was a surprise to a lot of people.
(DIR) Post #AMkzAg5SXFV0ZfXi6q by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T15:30:18.201617Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Moon @shibao @sj_zero mmm, it wasn't supposed to be the focus of the book, obviously. just a topic that you can't avoid thinking about when you're a woman pretending to be a man for a year and a half. and what she ended up thinking was:- "i tried trans stuff"- "it felt like ego death"- "therefore the same is true of everyone else"and not realising that trans people feel the way she did by default and have to change for it to improve, because platonism and never studying any biology
(DIR) Post #AMkzTBM71BLalT9hoG by Moon@shitposter.club
2022-08-21T15:34:28.840223Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shmibs @shibao @sj_zero yeah i think if trans people really felt like she felt they wouldn't be trans
(DIR) Post #AMl29gHQdELYkJMECW by Nudhul@shitposter.club
2022-08-21T16:04:34.983765Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shmibs @shibao @Moon @sj_zero assumptions
(DIR) Post #AMl2gBBlFY5hsFCecS by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T16:09:36.741724Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Nudhul @shibao @Moon @sj_zero i read her books and other writing, and that's what she saidthen there was also resentment from being put on pills that just made her mental issues worse, also feeds in. perfect storm of not trusting doctors, being dualist philosopher thinking in absolutes rather than biologist seeing fuzziness, and experience of having given herself bad dysphoria
(DIR) Post #AMl2h9d8WtdjKWTMcS by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T16:09:48.360427Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Nudhul @Moon @shibao @sj_zero (+ very mentally unstable
(DIR) Post #AMl3AavK8HZSNQ19qC by Beefki@noagendasocial.com
2022-08-21T16:15:57Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shmibs @shibao @Moon @sj_zero If trans people felt that way all the time then transitioning would "fix" it but they still go and 42% themselves. 57% are too chickenshit to an hero. The last 1% might have received minor benefit from it, but were probably also the ones that are almost passable already
(DIR) Post #AMl3Du9F73Vorx6fUu by shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-08-21T16:16:32.065Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki@noagendasocial.com @shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu @Moon@shitposter.club @sj_zero@social.fbxl.net try gaining some reading comprehension and then reading those studies again
(DIR) Post #AMl3Eg7SkybpeKdvO4 by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T16:15:50.468512Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki @shibao @Moon @sj_zero if they didn't feel that way then they wouldn't kill themselves
(DIR) Post #AMl3F929FoabKFNad6 by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T16:15:56.834468Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shibao @Moon @sj_zero @Beefki (also this
(DIR) Post #AMl3cVTrxj8jbXUAs4 by Beefki@noagendasocial.com
2022-08-21T16:21:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shmibs @shibao @Moon @sj_zero As someone who isn't trans and has been suicidal, eat shit get fucked
(DIR) Post #AMl44JVE5eb0YzNbKy by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T16:25:10.819822Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki @shibao @Moon @sj_zero "why do people with stab wounds need a doctor if they're just going to die at elevated rates anyways?""well *i've* never had stab wounds and i'm doing just fine without seeing a doctor"
(DIR) Post #AMl47C5u5hhOSHuPDc by georgia@netzsphaere.xyz
2022-08-21T16:26:27.774838Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Moon she died by assisted suicide? that's really sad
(DIR) Post #AMl48BqoTuT1zRKEIy by shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-08-21T16:26:41.714Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki@noagendasocial.com @shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu @Moon@shitposter.club @sj_zero@social.fbxl.net learn to read first faggotprotip: prevalence of LIFETIME suicide attemptssee i bolded lifetime there for you which means you should read that word and consider it's meaning. u might need to open a dictionary or ask an adult if you're still having issues don't worry i believe in u bb
(DIR) Post #AMl4S1BBro18gXJMC8 by Beefki@noagendasocial.com
2022-08-21T16:30:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shibao @shmibs @Moon @sj_zero Get fucked asshole. The only reason I'm not suicidal anymore is because I learned to appreciate myself for who I am, literally the opposite of how we "treat" trans people.
(DIR) Post #AMl58hgCF71gewATse by Moon@shitposter.club
2022-08-21T16:37:59.766014Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@georgia yeah i don't know more details
(DIR) Post #AMl5Hd7yXIpV9EPySG by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T16:38:47.575116Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki you are not representative of all humanitypeople differ a lotsometimes people are born with chiari malformation and, without treatment, end up deadif you want to know what life is like for someone else, you can always ask
(DIR) Post #AMl5JIiNOy9EPxEzzc by shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-08-21T16:39:54.743Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki@noagendasocial.com @shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu @Moon@shitposter.club @sj_zero@social.fbxl.net >transgender therapy doesn't reduce lifetime rates of suicidal attempts therefore gender dysphoria fakedo you really think if gender dysphoria is fake that nobody over your apparently room temperature iq would read any of these statistics or scientific literature and find fault with it? but no, i guess people accepting very established scientific literature are actually either extremely dumb or part of the secret globohomo conspiracy to apply treatments to a medical condition that actually don't work all the scientific literature is faked and trans people actually are still totally suicidal guys they actually need to be treated how i want them to instead?you can promote the supposed benefits of your method as much as you want but don't be surprised if nobody wants to quit established treatment (hrt) and switch to ur magical 10000iq denial of gender dysphoria technique when you apparently can't even interpret the most basic statistics properly
(DIR) Post #AMl5L6jeuZipqMhbXc by shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-08-21T16:40:14.913Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki@noagendasocial.com @shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu @Moon@shitposter.club @sj_zero@social.fbxl.net LEARN TO READ FAGGOT
(DIR) Post #AMl5gbWzbodTR61oMi by Jessica@fedi.absturztau.be
2022-08-21T16:44:07.036786Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shibao @shmibs @Moon @sj_zero @Beefki all I have to say is male sewer side rates are higher than trans folk I still have to say though that this could all be prevented if we cared about mental health more.
(DIR) Post #AMl64rHOhxoNEGIarg by georgia@netzsphaere.xyz
2022-08-21T16:48:27.930554Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki @shmibs @shibao @Moon @sj_zero some things make some people sad some things mitigate other peoples sadness. everyone's figuring their shit out. why are you upset about that is the question.
(DIR) Post #AMl68DSwg0deuJIkk4 by cheru@fedi.absturztau.be
2022-08-21T16:46:38.930172Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki @shibao @shmibs @Moon @sj_zero You act as if suicidal people are a monolith. Not every unstable person is going to wake up the next morning and feel less suicidal just because they were able to appreciate themselves. Glad it worked for you but as shmibs said you are not representative of all of humanity and you are not representative of all suicidal individuals.
(DIR) Post #AMl7bgAx74r4IjUxWq by H3K473@social.xenofem.me
2022-08-21T16:45:31.834876Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki @shibao @shmibs @Moon @sj_zero quit being so oppositional/aggro. this is a website with other retards on it just like you and me, who arent spending their time hurting or bothering anyone.trans people are usually just trying to affirm the self they experience. not in some way of affirming vice or something, more just aligning oneself externally with their internal experience of themselves.people do this all the time with things like weightlifting, going to jobs and working extrahard to become a higher position, etc. with community support, trans people have a far less suicide rate than you've mentioned and white men are maintaining a 69% suicide rate, which i also would imagine would lower given community support.
(DIR) Post #AMl7bgfRHjF1pHlJ32 by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2022-08-21T17:05:39.666278Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
>white men are maintaining a 69% suicide rateNice.Wait...
(DIR) Post #AMl7jo3xfkjN506UbY by Beefki@noagendasocial.com
2022-08-21T17:07:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@shibao @shmibs @Moon @sj_zero Fuck your worthless study, garbage in garbage out. We don't treat any other mental illness by telling those people they're totally what they pretend they are. HRT and transitioning will go down in history as being barbaric and damaging as lobotomies. it's a shit way to deal with the problem, and no amount of "study" will change that fact.Get. Fucked. Retard.
(DIR) Post #AMl8q0ntJbfqHo6sBk by shibao@misskey.bubbletea.dev
2022-08-21T17:19:27.472Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki@noagendasocial.com @shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu @sj_zero@social.fbxl.net lol guy who thinks all causes of depression are the same, arguing that therapy is ineffective because monotonically non-decreasing lifetime suicide rates aren't decreasing and in denial of established scientific literature going back decades is calling me delusional, how will i ever cope
(DIR) Post #AMl9pV4LP5rHoj7q4W by mer@cdrom.tokyo
2022-08-21T17:28:46.251709Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki @shibao @shmibs @Moon @sj_zero Nobody's arguing the strawman take that trans people are deluded they are the wrong sex and transition is society validating said delusion.The treatment is intended to address the dysphoria as a palliative.
(DIR) Post #AMl9pVVdlbh1BNtdcO by shmibs@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
2022-08-21T17:29:42.859135Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@mer ("sex" is not a well defined concept in the first place, and assuming it is leads to incorrect conclusions
(DIR) Post #AMlBb8H7YPjkyeNW9A by wowaname@anime.website
2022-08-21T17:50:19.811841Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki @shmibs @shibao @Moon @sj_zero there's a huge overlap between gender dysphoria and other mental disorders but i see everyone making false equivalencies that all trannies have a lust for death. for many (i.e. not the loudmouths you see on twitter and tumblr) they transition and they live the life they want to
(DIR) Post #AMlEmvKfng2SApM0iO by Beefki@noagendasocial.com
2022-08-21T18:26:08Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @shibao @Moon @sj_zero @shmibs Thank you for being the only person with a reasonable take.Those are effectively the 1% I was talking about. The rest are sick in other ways and transitioning isn't going to help them, and will likely cause more harm long term. Did lobotomies help? A very small fraction of people, yes. Were they a fad treatment that harmed many? Absolutely. This is the same.
(DIR) Post #AMlF9iXdWSzJADHoau by PhenomX6@fedi.pawlicker.com
2022-08-21T18:30:09.279251Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wowaname @shibao @Beefki @Moon @sj_zero @shmibs the tolerable ones are the ones who never tell you they're trans online because their identity is more than "lol I'm trans" and retweeting schizophrenic posts about how "everyone is going to kill me if trump wins".
(DIR) Post #AMlJhlgSkHW8ZWuHei by wowaname@anime.website
2022-08-21T19:21:11.403287Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Beefki @shibao @Moon @sj_zero @shmibs we exist