Post AMj3zNtrvNpkRCdTpA by markusl@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by markusl@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AMiwG273NpHC9gEMCm by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-08-20T15:49:04.198972Z
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I don't know precisely what regulatory intervention would stop the obscene 'disposable phone' situation we're stuck in.Maybe requiring all the chipset drivers to be open.Maybe requiring any phone manufacturer above a certain size to provide ten years of software/security updates.But just from an environmental standpoint, the current state is loathsome.
(DIR) Post #AMiwgp4fy3JNXItPbU by AI4oIc9bMAGSRhD7GS.logan@www.loganjohndarylgraham.xyz
2022-08-20T15:51:13.112Z
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@Azure@tailswish.industries or like uhm... have the phone architectures stay at least somewhat stable so that software updates work across the different phones. #🤔
(DIR) Post #AMiwgpVyKZ96txfD9M by AI4oIc9bMAGSRhD7GS.logan@www.loganjohndarylgraham.xyz
2022-08-20T15:52:03.518Z
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@Azure@tailswish.industries also please stop making phones that break if you so much as look at it from a funny angle. #🤔
(DIR) Post #AMiwkU7hnzc9iR3XLE by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-08-20T15:54:34.848753Z
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@logan I'm actually curious how different the architectures are.I know each chipset has its own thing, with its own binary blobs, and they only work with a limited range of kernels.
(DIR) Post #AMiwlyCrRUP3J4Ax9M by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-08-20T15:54:50.976938Z
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@logan But I also wouldn't want to say no new/different chipsets.
(DIR) Post #AMix3oarvAlyhnuk7c by eldaking@weirder.earth
2022-08-20T15:56:43Z
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@Azure An overt, extreme one... and thus a pretty much politically impossible one, I am afraid.I think it would need to 1) make phones easy to repair and durable, in a way that really made a dent in new device sales 2) enforce continued compatibility of _everything_ with older devices 3) manufacturer responsibility for discard of old phones 4) all of that for existing devices, including already "EOL" ones, and not just the next generation
(DIR) Post #AMix4loNkZdgMngrsO by AI4oIc9bMAGSRhD7GS.logan@www.loganjohndarylgraham.xyz
2022-08-20T15:56:38.874Z
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@Azure@tailswish.industries it's fine to have binary blobs and keep the architecture generally the same. that is why there is apis and what not.keep the the blobs in firmware and then the kernel can be the same across all the phones. #🤔
(DIR) Post #AMixJnCKsUz30h3dy4 by tulpa@fosstodon.org
2022-08-20T15:59:06Z
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@Azure Pleasantly, the 5-year-old S8 I have in a drawer still works great. Just a little slow with some modern apps. I'm actually considering putting it back into service, given how crashy my Pixel 4a has been.
(DIR) Post #AMixJncZIxy2K3KarA by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-08-20T16:00:56.334847Z
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@tulpa Does it still get security updates/bugfixes? Because that's the main thing that makes me mad.That you end up with perfectly functioning hardware where the software is an un-upgradeable mass of known security issues.
(DIR) Post #AMixKEDKQuownajJlQ by AI4oIc9bMAGSRhD7GS.logan@www.loganjohndarylgraham.xyz
2022-08-20T16:00:20.667Z
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@Azure@tailswish.industries desktop computers and laptops have already had this shit figured out for a pretty damn long time already.laptops still break a lot but at least their not tidal locked to a specific version of software 😆 #🤔
(DIR) Post #AMixnpSL2y9UhWriQC by eldaking@weirder.earth
2022-08-20T16:02:03Z
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@Azure So in more concrete terms:1) Force companies to release all information necessary to repair phone and make repair parts easily available and cheap. This includes opening all software, all APIs, blueprints for the parts, documentation. Manufacturing tools and parts at a loss if necessary2) Mandated maximum requirements, to make sure all "basic" software works even on very underpowered devices (say, <1GB RAM). And backwards compatibility for protocols and web standards.
(DIR) Post #AMixnprVXOHjxadoeW by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-08-20T16:06:22.627828Z
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@eldaking 1 at least seems doable, with a good bit of effort behind it.Though I think old phones become unusable less because they can't run the software than because of all the unpatched holes.(Though I'll admit I'm not a stereotypical User of Apps so I might just not be aware.)
(DIR) Post #AMixoDRRrvhV5idLMm by tulpa@fosstodon.org
2022-08-20T16:02:38Z
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@Azure No, it's abandoned now. Given how I actually use a phone, I'm not sure I care too much. Setting "Private DNS" to use an ad-blocking DNS server filters most of the attack vector I would actually encounter.
(DIR) Post #AMiy905MiowBkVDPP6 by eldaking@weirder.earth
2022-08-20T16:07:27Z
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@Azure 2) (cont) this might require fall-backs for some technologies already deployed that can't work, and funding development of a really good "basic suite" for many things.3) Phones discarded _for any reason_ should be repaired, scraped for parts, or recycled. Any phones not accounted for should incur a fee.And when the phone companies inevitably go bankrupt, assets should be seized and someone should pick it up and finish the job.
(DIR) Post #AMiy90QzQQEcpZKg6q by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-08-20T16:10:11.679262Z
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@eldaking 3 ALSO seems doable. At least in a weaker form. I know Europe is trying to take a more aggressive approach to e-waste overall.
(DIR) Post #AMj0LB7lhoXhMuH2pc by PetrichorSquirrel@meow.social
2022-08-20T16:30:13Z
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@Azure I think manufacturers should be legally obligated to handle the entire lifcycle of the device. This means setting up rebates and facilities for reclamation and recycling after the device has outlived its designed operational lifespan. Such schemes could be set up to heavily disincentive planned obsolescence.
(DIR) Post #AMj0LpmaXSxhT5gD0i by eldaking@weirder.earth
2022-08-20T16:11:47Z
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@Azure I don't know, my Moto G2 (from 2014!) was barely working. Didn't have the space to keep the same apps installed and updated, and was incredibly slow for even basic tasks.I have seen "smart boxes" for TVs that no longer can play videos on Netflix, because the older app is unsupported, and it can't update to a newer version because android is too old.Software rot is certainly a thing.
(DIR) Post #AMj3zNtrvNpkRCdTpA by markusl@fosstodon.org
2022-08-20T17:15:20Z
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@eldaking @Azure As a software engineer, I'd push back against maximum hardware requirements in favour of some mechanism for encouraging lean software. A hard maximum places arbitrary limits on what code can do.
(DIR) Post #AMj42llddw1pKUOs9Q by Azure@tailswish.industries
2022-08-20T17:16:18.796653Z
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@markusl Yeah, that was my thought. Even as someone who dislikes the Fallen Web intensely I wouldn't want to, say, rule out expanding it into something like virtualities that have a legitimate requirement for more capabilities.@eldaking
(DIR) Post #AMj444xTmEd38fYyLw by markusl@fosstodon.org
2022-08-20T17:10:06Z
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@tulpa @Azure The problem here is that the company that decides how long your phone should get updates is the same company that makes money if you buy a replacement phone. So my two regulatory changes would be user-replaceable batteries and five years of security updates -- much like #Fairphone, in fact.
(DIR) Post #AMj452xCiO3lDBtbFo by markusl@fosstodon.org
2022-08-20T17:12:41Z
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@eldaking @Azure Enforced compatibility with everything going back as far as the Garden of Eden gets you where IBM mainframes are today -- a piquant blend of Gormenghast and Satanism. It also limits new functionality and security improvements. So I'd encourage backwards-compatibility, but within limits.
(DIR) Post #AMjFLW9wzoKRv7ukrY by markusl@fosstodon.org
2022-08-20T17:19:13Z
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@tulpa @Azure I'd be really careful. There are zero-click vulnerabilities in some phones: just send them an evil text message or UDP packet and they crash or let an attacker take control. It doesn't matter how you habitually use the phone, or whether you use it much at all.
(DIR) Post #AMjFLWVvg5uT1ICJ7Y by tulpa@fosstodon.org
2022-08-20T19:02:05Z
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@markusl @Azure Makes me wonder if my crashing Pixel 4a is being attacked somehow.
(DIR) Post #AMjFLWukBpl8GFo7nc by markusl@fosstodon.org
2022-08-20T19:18:41Z
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@tulpa @Azure That still gets security updates, doesn't it? It sounds too new to have been abandoned.I don't know how I'd diagnose a crashing phone. They're not open in the way computers are. The makers are openly hostile to diagnosis and repair: they want you to buy a replacement every year. (Apple, IMHO, is the worst for this, making last year's £1000 phone obsolete with only slightly less fanfare than the Second Coming.)