Post AMDHMSz6DdgCLeCjeS by remcoboerma@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by remcoboerma@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AMC8pwLuRduJBSdK7M by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T20:04:31Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
So you moved your project from Google Code to GitHub to Gitlab on a free tier?How much more warnings do you need? Seriously? Host it yourself or lose it. These services are to 'back up' your data only and share your project. That's it.Your code should be under your control, and even an underpowered machine is enough to run gitea, fossil, kallithea or mercurial. Yes, there are other solutions than git.I know this, because that's what I do.
(DIR) Post #AMC9ijwCIuN8bijlnk by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T20:14:26Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Oh, and those free tier Gitlab accounts getting deleted?I will bet that deleting them is going to throw a lot of stuff haywire. Think node.js x1000. Fun fun fun.
(DIR) Post #AMCAvOAkdbtGp38k0u by just1602@kolektiva.social
2022-08-04T20:27:54Z
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@ParadeGrotesque at this point, you only need a machine with an ssh connection to host a git bare repository, tho. The issue with self-hosting is it takes money to pay for the machine, and it takes more time to handle stuff like updates and backup. Even better than personal hosting, we should encourage collective project and collective to open GitLab and Gitea instances for everyone.
(DIR) Post #AMCBOFQYEOWO67I7W4 by emacsen@emacsen.net
2022-08-04T20:33:07Z
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@ParadeGrotesque There are reasons though... we can't ignore that.
(DIR) Post #AMCBScFbJfmm2dFhZY by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T20:33:55Z
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@epoch He he he he... Guilty as charged, I guess. 🤓 Seriously, though, install Fossil on a small machine and you can use that to manage a small to medium project. It's easy to install and powerful.
(DIR) Post #AMCBUo1oUxZ99Fqbxo by ocdtrekkie@mastodon.social
2022-08-04T20:34:19Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Sure, but I mean, Git is wonderfully decentralized: Why not have it on all of the above?I never find projects that aren't on GitHub, so like, for discovery, you should be there. (Choosing not to host it there won't keep it from Copilot anyways...) But you should selfhost so you can provide links you truly control. And... you really should have your own copy of your code somewhere else for safe-keeping too.We should be syncing repos around.
(DIR) Post #AMCBbaAWQU5YBt9Uqe by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T20:35:32Z
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@just1602 True, but only up to a certain point."Collective" requires a lot of work, and volunteer burn-out is a thing.
(DIR) Post #AMCBnOpGQNcUUDqMym by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T20:37:40Z
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@h3artbl33d Shoot, I should have put "PSA" in front of that, you are right.
(DIR) Post #AMCCK0mKquiLSg1a8e by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T20:43:35Z
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@emacsen Except for visibility ("Because everyone is on github"), what are your reasons?
(DIR) Post #AMCCed8VwtowDYEL8i by just1602@kolektiva.social
2022-08-04T20:47:18Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Yeah! My point is not to say that you shouldn't host your stuff by yourself, but to say that doing this work with other people is generally nice, and more motivating. You can share the cost with other members or even your users if you get some.But like everything, you're right that it takes time and energy, and it's not a guaranty of success, but I tend to believe that you can probably accomplish more and have a bigger impact on the community when you work with other folks.
(DIR) Post #AMCDN5eNIQsBOSKhQe by emacsen@emacsen.net
2022-08-04T20:55:19Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Cost and complexity of hosting.While it's not a big deal for some projects, it's a big added cost and complexity for many individuals.
(DIR) Post #AMCECmoSZuIM1qhVc8 by max@smeap.com
2022-08-04T21:04:40Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ParadeGrotesque @chucker Related to that, amazing to think that the company behind shutting down Google Code Projects is the same company that built and promotes a programming language whose default package management strategy is hardcoved git repo URLs. Way to golang!
(DIR) Post #AMCIzpbTOJxwgpGgnA by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T21:58:21Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@emacsen True, but only up to a certain point.Fossil (in particular) is a single executable that will provide source code control, wiki and ticket management.It's powerful enough to manage NetBSD entire code base, and it runs perfectly well on small configuration.Git is not the only game in town...
(DIR) Post #AMCJY4RcicXKZ3zIga by emacsen@emacsen.net
2022-08-04T22:04:33Z
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@ParadeGrotesque `Whether it's Fossil or Gitlab or Gitea or Subversion or anything else, when you require a server to be up and available, that increases the burden considerably.
(DIR) Post #AMCJt0GVS6tPgSlkZ6 by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T22:08:20Z
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@AFresh1 @emacsen Which is (more or less) what I meant by visibility."Everyone knows how to use GitHub" is the new: "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM".Which is why we can't have nice things.
(DIR) Post #AMCK8LwZ8QbVGIlGee by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T22:11:06Z
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@emacsen Isn't that the beauty of decentralized source control?That you can hack in a corner and upload / sync / commit your code later?
(DIR) Post #AMCKMt4sjvcA50a8Cu by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-04T22:13:44Z
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@emacsen And also please note that I did say that GitHub, etc should be to back up your data and share your project with the rest of the world.Your main repo, though, should be self hosted.
(DIR) Post #AMCsJBfl3lj529EmuG by jens@social.finkhaeuser.de
2022-08-05T04:34:01Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ParadeGrotesque I forgot about Google Code. I didn't use it much.I do recall when sourceforge was the thing to use, though. Never liked it back then. I ran monotone.
(DIR) Post #AMDHMSz6DdgCLeCjeS by remcoboerma@fosstodon.org
2022-08-05T09:14:45Z
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@ParadeGrotesque @emacsen thanks for pointing out fossil!
(DIR) Post #AMDS6neehNmvJnNFy4 by Jeff@bluenoser.me
2022-08-05T11:15:06Z
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@ParadeGrotesque I do this with my Synology NAS, and I don't even have anything critical. I do sync the pelicanSSG theme I use for others, but that's about it.Relying on free service for "mission critical" projects is a really bad idea.
(DIR) Post #AMDpbdh28hh0tDJoMC by Doomed_Daniel@mastodon.technology
2022-08-05T15:38:28Z
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@ParadeGrotesque @_xhr_ You forgot sourceforge :)Then of course again, projects on GH, SF and google code are still accessible (unless the developer deleted them), while most self-hosted projects (that the developers lost interest in) just vanish (if you're lucky someone uploads them at github :-p).
(DIR) Post #AMTat3DG7YGMB3axBw by odddev@mstdn.social
2022-08-13T06:08:53Z
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@ParadeGrotesque I don't get why "the services may shut down" is such a kick ass argument? I mean they warn you about 10 times, the code is usually still accessible, and commonly you still have a local copy. You can just transfer it to wherever you want to quite easily. Actually I think your stance is privileged. Not everyone has enough money, time or skill to maintain an on premise solution.
(DIR) Post #AMUCm175KDgdtemQue by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-13T13:13:27Z
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@odddev By definition, *everyone* posting anything on Mastodon, or using services such as GitHub *is* privileged.Because doing this means you have access to one (or more) devices that can be connected to the internet and used for programming. Which puts you ahead of the vast majority of the world population.
(DIR) Post #AMUEQtsnDFXpIa9alM by odddev@mstdn.social
2022-08-13T13:31:57Z
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@ParadeGrotesque How does that invalidate my point?
(DIR) Post #AMUHhra7JznYwmCMka by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-13T14:08:43Z
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@odddev 1. If you call me 'privileged' while posting on Mastodon... It smells like hypocrisy to me. You are just as privileged as I am.2. If you post on Mastodon, & use a service like GitHub, you have a computer & it is connected to the Internet. You can use that to self host your projects, even if you use GitHub and others for visibility.Look at git, cgit, fossil, etc. All solutions that can form the basis of self hosting. Instead of trusting a company like Microsoft.
(DIR) Post #AMUIUoCIgz5idnOhUW by odddev@mstdn.social
2022-08-13T14:17:34Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Wait, I said telling people to "just self-host" is a privileged stance. It's a privilege on its own. Yes, maybe "within" a privileged group of people.Your second point is plain wrong. Think of USB-Tethering, Internet Cafe, etc. Having an uninterrupted internet connection is not just given. Even then, you have to set up DynDNS, port forwarding, PAT/NAT, etc. And yet, even if you have the skill to set up and maintain your self-hosted solution, even if you have a stable continuous connection to the internet, it does not mean you have enough time to maintain a server providing your repo. Let's say you have a disabled child you need to take care of. You can't just let it slip because your prod is down.And at this point, we didn't even consider money. Letting a server run, subscribing to a DynDNS service, etc. costs money.
(DIR) Post #AMUd2CtfsYUjsut86a by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-13T18:07:41Z
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@odddev I think you are trolling. 1st it was "you are privileged", then "what about people without computers?" and now it is "what about people without stable Internet access?".If you have a computer but unstable Internet access, you are *precisely* in the situation DVCS were designed for.A basic self-hosting scenario is: one person, one computer, one coffee shop trip once a week.Install git on computer, create repo. Program offline. Sync to github when online. Done. You are self-hosting.
(DIR) Post #AMUdOWtAEMR2G7IGSO by odddev@mstdn.social
2022-08-13T18:11:43Z
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@ParadeGrotesque Ah, I think I misunderstood. I thought you are suggesting to basically self host "GitHub". Like in a way other people can interact with your instance.
(DIR) Post #AMUeV46XkQooy3ERii by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-13T18:24:07Z
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@odddev And why not? If you are programming on Linux or BSD, self-hosting makes sense, and it is easy to setup.I have Kallithea running on my (+/-250€, 5y old) home "server". It's a complete solution. Fossil is as good as Kallithea and even easier to install.Take a look at Yunohost, and you can install an entire Gitlab instance in minutes. Etc... etc...There are free services to replace DynDNS - I know because I use 2 for my home server. And so on and so forth.
(DIR) Post #AMUehDXsTN6RisoPMu by ParadeGrotesque@mastodon.sdf.org
2022-08-13T18:26:18Z
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@odddev But the key point is this: you can, and you should, self-host your code. Period.Even if it's just putting it on *your* computer, as a simple git / DVCS repo.