Post AM3oolEFx1T0SXfVNg by wim_v12e@cybre.space
(DIR) More posts by wim_v12e@cybre.space
(DIR) Post #AM3ookDrgzYlL2Tg8G by wim_v12e@cybre.space
2022-07-31T15:47:15Z
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You may think watching TV is an innocuous pastime.And telling people to watch less TV must certainly be one of the most unpopular messages ever.Nevertheless, people should be aware that the contributions to CO2 emissions (and so to global warming) from internet TV and video are already larger than those from flying.And while emissions from flying are only set to grow slowly, those from internet TV and video are rising rapidly. This is all down to more and more people watching more and more TV and video at higher and higher resolutions. And it is entirely unsustainable.#FrugalComputing #ClimateEmergency
(DIR) Post #AM3ookfW2Bg4inPlEO by Sandra@idiomdrottning.org
2022-07-31T18:40:11.231233Z
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@wim_v12e It's always important to remember when comparing anything to flying that it does matter that it's up in the air. (It's worse.) That sounded like kid logic when I first heard it but it seemed to check out when I looked into it.
(DIR) Post #AM3oolEFx1T0SXfVNg by wim_v12e@cybre.space
2022-07-31T19:09:52Z
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@Sandra I know, the effect on warming of the exhausts at high altitude are worse. So flying is definitely bad. My point is only that with the projected growth rates, computing will be far worse.
(DIR) Post #AM3oy18QBNrOOfLwye by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-31T19:44:13.511116Z
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@roboneko @wim_v12e @Sandra yeah computers don't really generate CO2, it's the energy plants they use for electricity
(DIR) Post #AM3ozjjdqScH0naAi0 by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-31T19:44:32.172182Z
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@roboneko @Sandra @wim_v12e so like, it's about as much a problem as any other electricity use
(DIR) Post #AM3pqbLBmmmqKDLvhA by wim_v12e@cybre.space
2022-07-31T19:53:35Z
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@straw @roboneko @Sandra Sorry, I can't see what roboneko said, I guess that instance must be silenced from here. The problem with computing is the projected growth. That is not the case for a lot of the other electricity use.Renewables/nuclear are not going to save us, they will come too late. We need to cut emission now, we can't just wait 30 years for 100% renewables and in the meanwhile fill the increased electricity demand from computing with fossil fuels.Finally, about half of the emissions from computing are from manufacturing of the devices and infrastructure, not from usage.
(DIR) Post #AM3pw0JgM1dHEYDxM8 by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-31T19:55:03.930605Z
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@wim_v12e @roboneko @Sandra >Finally, about half of the emissions from computing are from manufacturing of the devices and infrastructure, not from usage.that's interesting, I wasn't aware - however, I don't see the point of an argument about computing? is there really any path to be taken other than using renewable energy sources?
(DIR) Post #AM3qzOVuwgEf6T7yGO by wim_v12e@cybre.space
2022-07-31T20:06:47Z
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@straw @roboneko @Sandra Of course there is: reduce the electricity usage of computing. The obvious ways to do that are to compute less (which is what my original post implies) or to use less energy per compute task. That may sound nice but in practice efficiency gains won't offset projected growth in usage.And on the manufacturing side, the obvious approach is to use devices for much longer, so we need far fewer of them. That us what frugal computing is all about.
(DIR) Post #AM3r3VQlAectiJfx7w by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-31T20:07:37.295495Z
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@wim_v12e @roboneko @Sandra I do agree, but it's a little hard to use less energy per compute task, as it's often dependent on the computer's architecture (e.g. ARM is designed for low power usage)
(DIR) Post #AM3rlj7PdmOmuLiDei by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-31T20:15:35.855640Z
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@wim_v12e @Sandra to relay this post from @roboneko, as cybre.space seemingly blocks bae.st>yup realistically I refuse to live in a pod, eat the bugs, or give up my various computing devices. not getting rid of my car either. and I'm not even remotely extreme in my views compared to many around me. any solution that targets the thing itself instead of reducing impact by targeting the underlying source is doomed to fail>I had assumed it was about electricity usage given some of the other stuff posted by the account. manufacturing is an interesting point for electronics because there are a lot of pretty bad chemicals involved>but still, in terms of CO2 it's almost entirely the energy inputs to the process afaik (including mining, transport, and the like)honestly I don't think eating bugs will be a big thing, probably lab-made vile creations to satisfy the consoomer and increase dependence
(DIR) Post #AM3rvQM4G4E1bqBuRE by wim_v12e@cybre.space
2022-07-31T20:17:15Z
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@straw @roboneko @Sandra It depends on the specific compute task. Most of the emissions will be at the cloud data centre. There are still quite some efficiency gains that can be made there, through a combination of better load scheduling/run time management, compiler improvements and use of dedicated hardware. But overall, simply computing less seems like a more effective solution to me. The problem with efficiency gains is that they usually do not lead to reduced energy but to increased compute usage.
(DIR) Post #AM3s4INVHkArTZ5p2G by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-31T20:18:57.526646Z
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@roboneko @wim_v12e @Sandra >hey I'd happily eat lab meat if the texture and flavor was equal to the natural stuff :02_shrug:I wouldn't, based on principle. capitalists want to make us dependent on their chemical nutrition. it's not only lab meat anyway, they'll probably make some weird abomination to feed us with stuff other than meat.
(DIR) Post #AM3s97faWfIhiEqzEe by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-31T20:19:50.856154Z
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@wim_v12e @roboneko @Sandra >Most of the emissions will be at the cloud data centre. the real culprits are rarely individuals it seems, but corporations
(DIR) Post #AM3t2xvvudR1jT7vMG by straw@socks.pinnoto.org
2022-07-31T20:29:56.356444Z
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@wim_v12e @Sandra relaying @roboneko's post:at this point all the architectures are targeting overall efficiency. gains have largely come from process shrink but that gets ever more difficultbut realistically, if you can do it on a cell phone then I don't think the energy consumption is notable versus other things in your day to day life. so at that point increases in computer usage are irrelevant imo since those are really just people in less developed parts of the world getting access. and they were presumably already using far more electricity for other things in their day to day livesfor example, a small window AC unit consumes slightly over 500 watts. my laptop only has a 40 watt hour battery. so running it for 5 minutes is equivalent to a full battery discharge which is 6+ hours of light usageor compare your laptop to boiling half a liter of water for tea or coffee. and god forbid you eat food that was baked in an electric oven
(DIR) Post #AM4ujoUXBfcs0sGZw8 by wim_v12e@cybre.space
2022-08-01T08:20:21Z
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@straw @roboneko @Sandra They sell what we buy. It's demand driven. They will minimise their costs and in a data centre that is mostly power; but they will grow capacity if there is more demand.