Post ALbDZd5ccjXE0dfboe by waifu@waifuism.life
(DIR) More posts by waifu@waifuism.life
(DIR) Post #ALbAdPiHzzOJoqrxWy by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:00:14.676705Z
7 likes, 3 repeats
I kid you not, but Skype 15 years ago was far more functional that most messaging apps we have now. The only new thing invented since then is End-to-End Encryption, and even it still isn't universally available.In 15 years, literally nothing has changed except almost all corporate messengers now require a phone number.How did we come to this? I can not fathom.P.S. XMPP hasn't changed either and still sucks cocks in hell.
(DIR) Post #ALbBPUpoGFfHbQJYcS by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:09:02.696008Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
Ok, here's an idea for how exactly we ended up in this shit.Messaging services require money for both development and operation [citation not needed], and since nobody ever wants to pay for this shit, the only way forward is through other means of monetization, namely from selling user data to data brokers and serving ads.Which sorta explains why, for example, Telegram doesn't have E2EE enabled by default.Another reason is, nobody really cares about quality here. The things we have are good enough for most.
(DIR) Post #ALbBsZygDb4Tx3KbGS by echo@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:14:19.742127Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@newt I dunno, WhatsApp proved that people were willing to pay, before farcebook took it over.
(DIR) Post #ALbBxOxcbgsxEM8Tcu by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:15:10.367580Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@echo wait what? Was whatsapp a paid service?
(DIR) Post #ALbC2ieCq5R1jhadBA by skadi@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:16:09.095265Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@newt Imo, two of the better possibilities for monetizing a messaging service would be to charge money for adding phone numbers to your account (sort of like jmp.chat), and to integrate money transfers with other users via Monero, with the service provider requiring a small additional fee.I'm not sure how these would fit into federation, though honestly the lack of nomadic identities has led me to be rather skeptical of the XMPP and Matrix model of federation. Something sort of like Tox might be better in the long run.
(DIR) Post #ALbCFHZApzHHVgE6zI by waifu@waifuism.life
2022-07-18T00:18:24.716363Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@newt XMPP SUCKS
(DIR) Post #ALbCJpdA841mJiGHM8 by itzzenxx@plma.plus.st
2022-07-18T00:19:10.644257Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@waifu @newt 🥺
(DIR) Post #ALbCRyD47GDNF0w4I4 by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:20:42.293790Z
3 likes, 0 repeats
@skadi the problem with Tox is, it just doesn't work because it has no identities whatsoever. Your identity is your key. Should it be compromised, welp, you're royally fucked.I don't believe in P2P messaging apps.There are really two models that I see viable:1. Charging money for additional services, like extra emoji and what not. Sort of what Discord has been doing for ages or what Telegram recently started.2. Using the publicly available service as a testing ground, while charging money for privately available versions with support and maybe extra features. This is what Wire, Slack, and some others do.But of course, none of these models work with federated services, although Wire seem to be trying to make it work.
(DIR) Post #ALbCUHhUcYWQGnGt4S by echo@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:21:08.632955Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@newt Used to be like $1 per year or something, which a lot of people seemed happy to pay.
(DIR) Post #ALbCkih21ycocRtPKC by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2022-07-18T00:24:02.281654Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@newt @skadi My issue with Tox is their lack of good compatibility about A/V.Tried 3 different apps, no one can understand each other lmao. It works fine when it's same app vs same app.
(DIR) Post #ALbCw6OKGH9fIsZRBY by pernia@cum.salon
2022-07-18T00:26:10.428718Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@waifu @newt correct conclusion but i dont wanna hear your reasoning
(DIR) Post #ALbDLmiE3B0lnc7oEC by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:30:47.083611Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@waltercool @skadi the problem with Tox is it was developed by some script kiddies who had literally no idea about security. And then they fell out with each other and the rest was history.
(DIR) Post #ALbDLnkkBIcV1iJKnA by waifu@waifuism.life
2022-07-18T00:30:47.691832Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@pernia @newt wasn't gonna tell you either bub
(DIR) Post #ALbDNhlBQx5L1FQLrM by pernia@cum.salon
2022-07-18T00:31:09.740717Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@waifu @newt good
(DIR) Post #ALbDSRpc5DJn47l2a8 by hrcerq@fe.disroot.org
2022-07-18T00:31:35.341173Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
What's worse is that despite the effort with End-to-End encryption, a lot more metadata is collected and publicly available. Those might be mixed with messages from other networks, and that's precisely what happens with data from Facebook and Whatsapp since both belong to the same company.Which means the encryption in this case is just more corporate propaganda than actual protection.
(DIR) Post #ALbDZd5ccjXE0dfboe by waifu@waifuism.life
2022-07-18T00:33:17.668323Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@itzzenxx @newt only when you use trash stuff is that you value great stuff
(DIR) Post #ALbDy0xlVzed07cgUK by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2022-07-18T00:37:39.625525Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
What would be the security issue with Tox?If you want to chat with someone you trust, Tox is a great alternative.If you want to chat with someone you distrust, Tox might not be great since your IP is transparent (unless you use VPN)
(DIR) Post #ALbE9o8h1Fk6hhMEVc by kumicota@weeaboo.space
2022-07-18T00:39:48.018278Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@newt > Another reason is, nobody really cares about quality here. The things we have are good enough for most.This is mainly why with my friends/relatives are there.A reason that I don't see a lot of modern apps improving is because how dumb the average population is.when related to tech, you can take linux, xmpp/matrix and more where a lot people hates them because they are complicated in relation to proprietary plataforms.> XMPP hasn't changed either and still sucks cocks in hell.I like xmpp a lot but one thing IMO that they need to address is how bad it is the desktop clients, or they are buggy as hell or they don't have a lot of features
(DIR) Post #ALbEBjsBqrqO3GYkRk by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:40:10.759501Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@waltercool @skadi i remember they had lots of weird bugs reported to them, and most of those were monkey-patched. Don't remember any specifics, sorry.
(DIR) Post #ALbERQuI8QfFrY1fJA by kumicota@weeaboo.space
2022-07-18T00:43:01.584599Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@newt Also, talking about messaging plataforms, one thing that I would like to other people to copy is the P2P XDCC file transfer from IRC, it's a very useful feature
(DIR) Post #ALbEhZqgenYeEF2QAC by amiloradovsky@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:45:34.792355Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@newt what's wrong with XMPP again? that it needed to create a completely new protocols from the ground up, still centralized, or federated at best
(DIR) Post #ALbEsdro3g3vsMq09I by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T00:47:55.172359Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@amiloradovsky no E2EE in the base spec, no in-band file transfers, hacky voice and video chats, lots of XEPs.Not saying that XMPP must be totally reinvented, but what's better happen is, bury most unused XEPs, move other like OMEMO and in-band file transfers into the base spec, and create test suites for client and server validation.This should bring it up to speed. Of course, nobody will ever do this, and this is why XMPP is doomed.
(DIR) Post #ALbF0sRZkHhvOzUlhw by waltercool@pl.slash.cl
2022-07-18T00:49:23.622197Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
The problem of online messaging is their privacy related content.Anything centralized is not safe, even if they promise full security. You are trusting someone you don't know and you can't sue in case of legal problems.In terms of decentralized, you can use Tox, Matrix, Briar, etc. Each one have their pro and cons.Briar might be the most safe, but the most unpractical. Matrix is the Federated messaging platform but the code is crap too.
(DIR) Post #ALbHAQkJmOWyIrweTQ by amiloradovsky@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T01:01:46.802118Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@newt there is also an argument that XML per se is not very good base because it's not directly convertible to and from dicts and listsI'm using Conversations as if it was a centralized service, but of course it's not.WRT OMEMO, it's not very convenient that chat history is not visible on newly connected devices but I guess this is a price to pay for security.There are also messengers based on IMAP, e.g. DeltaChat, it seems to work fine.Back in the day I used Irssi+Bitlbee to connect to ICQ, it worked reasonably well… don't know what's the state of these today.
(DIR) Post #ALbHAR5aVJXpMptdcu by newt@stereophonic.space
2022-07-18T01:13:32.466076Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amiloradovsky you can sync chat history to new devices from the old ones during verification. Matrix does this just fine.
(DIR) Post #ALbZ8J672mCxB5HCNM by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2022-07-18T04:34:52.957212Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@newt >Skype 15 years ago was far more functional that most messaging apps we have now >The only new thing invented since then is End-to-End Encryptionskype was always proprietary malware, but microsoft ages ago bought it and removed the end-to-end encryption part (which really isn't a new thing).With cr...apps you always lose, there are indeed a few pieces of messaging software that are fine (obviously XMPP is crap even though there's mostly free software implementations).
(DIR) Post #ALccoim2SrI3zhlNU8 by RisottoGateway@udongein.xyz
2022-07-18T16:47:20.924355Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@newt @amiloradovsky I wouldn't use Tox for anything sensitive. The major problem with Tox (or any homebrew encrypted messengers for that matter - but in this case Tox was using an standard library - which again goes to the cost problem) They didn't hire/had any cryptographer on their team.If you want something more usesable & accessible, using more sane E2EE (from v3.onion addresses [ed25519]) standards and metadata resistant:https://cwtch.im/&https://www.ricochetrefresh.net/#about
(DIR) Post #ALcskYPgdoiDyCLKim by adamasnemesis@social.adamasnemesis.com
2022-07-18T19:49:17Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@newt Incredible.